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07/14/09, 10:02 PM
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#4081
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Great Tiger
Worgen Druid
Blade's Edge
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Xavius seemed to be pretty killed by Malfurion when he was turned into a tree. Course I guess they can go into the entire how he was a Eternal and did not actually die thing. I have my doubts about seeing the Tomb of Sargeras as a instance since I thought it was entirley caved in by Illidan but I guess I can see Blizzard having a non caved in part as a instance just due to how big of a place it was in WC3 though.
I think it will end up being 2 separate Old Gods with the Maelstrom and Emerald Dream since then it works out pretty well having 1 Old God per expansion and continues the story that really got started in WotLK.
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07/14/09, 10:53 PM
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#4082
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Leviathon
Xavius seemed to be pretty killed by Malfurion when he was turned into a tree. Course I guess they can go into the entire how he was a Eternal and did not actually die thing. I have my doubts about seeing the Tomb of Sargeras as a instance since I thought it was entirley caved in by Illidan but I guess I can see Blizzard having a non caved in part as a instance just due to how big of a place it was in WC3 though.
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I should have noted that, but my ideas for the Maelstrom are based upon Nazjatar and the surrounding land mass being raised to the surface as a new continent as seen by Arthas' vision. That would easily allow a Tomb of Sargeras instance/raid.
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07/14/09, 11:34 PM
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#4083
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Leviathon
I have my doubts about seeing the Tomb of Sargeras as a instance since I thought it was entirley caved in by Illidan but I guess I can see Blizzard having a non caved in part as a instance just due to how big of a place it was in WC3 though.
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By this point. something epic like the tomb of sargeras will be a 2 minute instance with 0 trash, a teleport to the last boss who gives you loot by talking to him, he then teleports you back to your home city and mails you a thankyou letter for visiting him with a bag full of potions attached.
But seriously, don't forget Cho'Gall! We have been fighting these Twilight Cult since Blackfathom Deeps to Slave Pens to Ahn'Kahet. I can't wait to see the boss of these guys.
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07/15/09, 3:54 AM
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#4084
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Mr. Sandman
Night Elf Druid
Argent Dawn (EU)
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Originally Posted by Krixooks
By this point. something epic like the tomb of sargeras will be a 2 minute instance with 0 trash, a teleport to the last boss who gives you loot by talking to him, he then teleports you back to your home city and mails you a thankyou letter for visiting him with a bag full of potions attached.
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Yawn at 3.2 rhetoric. Wasn't the Tomb of Sargeras caved in anyway after Illidan and Maeiv escaped, and since retconned that it was just an avatar of Sargeras anyway?
As for the Naga culture I think they are probably heavily influenced by an Old God still. The striking similarities between General Vezax and some of the Naga makes me think that they are the same powers that mutated the Forgotten ones as the Naga, and we know the mutation didn't happen over night so presumably it was continued worship for a few thousand years.
The RPG text books state that Azshara due to her transformation and inherent power from before the sundering is now basically a demi-god in power level, equivalent to that of Cenarius/Agamaggan, etc... It also says Xavius had become a demi-god, and survived his tree incident to continue to convert Satyr's.
All of this is very Alliance/Night Elf orientated though, wondering how they're going to tie the Horde into it.
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07/15/09, 7:05 AM
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#4085
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Don Flamenco
Dwarf Priest
Dalaran (EU)
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Originally Posted by Nuke1096
For the sake of discussion, lets nickname him Shubs, based off the Lovecraftian Old God Shub-Nigurath.
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Note that, although the surging sunken city theme that comes across in the Arthas novel points to Cthulhu, he's already taken. Alas. So, no Nazjatar-Rlyeh parallels.
Shub-Niggurath (two g) is a perverted version of a fertility goddess ("The goat with a thousand young"), which would make it a good match with the matriarchal-oriented Naga.
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07/15/09, 8:55 AM
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#4086
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Bald Bull
Human Paladin
Scarlet Crusade
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I would think Xavius could work better in an Emerald Dream expansion. Trash his body twice so his essence migrates and assists in Dream corruption. Satyr seem more Nelf/Dream aligned than Maelstrom aligned, even with Xavius' tie to Azshara.
Also, I suspect Shub-Niggurath would fit Emerald Dream better. Dagon seems more fit for a water-themed Maelstrom expansion. Murlocs have always seemed like Deep Ones to me, so having Dagon down in the water makes logical sense.
So I'd see tiering more:
Neptulon the Elemental Lord
Dagon the Old God
Azshara
Because the Lore characters always become more powerful than Old Gods*. Go figure. Yeah, I know - gameplay requirements break lore power comparisons.
I also wouldn't be surprised at the initial quick-raid being Tomb of Sargeras with some revenant of Gul'dan brought back just so we could smack it around. Or some acolyte wannabe trying to return Gul'dan to life.
* - On that topic, when will we see the Retcon that the Argent Champions killed Yogg before starting the challenges?
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Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
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07/15/09, 10:16 AM
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#4087
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Don Flamenco
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With Xavius, what if he would be the entire instance? We could visit a sub-zone which is a haunted corrupted forest, sorta like Felwood 2.0, but much older. In the center of it could be the giant evil tree Xavius which is made up of a couple of instances, like one being the roots, the other the trunk and lastly the upper branches.
Xavius could be still directing the Satyr in tree state, projecting his spirit while his body is rooted in place. The final objective of the instance would be to destroy his core, and end the menace once and for all.
This would provide a new opportunity to create a unique dungeon based around the tree. I do not think it would be raid level, but could make a batch of fun five mans out of it. As to what expansion it would be best for, well Emerald Dream is the better fit, but with a heavy Azshara themed expansion, the area could be fit in an oceanic one easily. Just have the haunted forest on one of the many islands out there. Perhaps the Xavius strong magic helped the area survive the Sundering?
Now for Gul'dan, there is a very easy way for us to fight him. Make the Tomb of Sargaras be a CoT instance. We could travel back to the time of the old WC2 mission, and fight him there. We could even be what tore him apart in the first place. The description was pretty vague, wasn't it?
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07/15/09, 11:04 AM
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#4088
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Bald Bull
Human Paladin
Scarlet Crusade
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Originally Posted by Monocle
Now for Gul'dan, there is a very easy way for us to fight him. Make the Tomb of Sargaras be a CoT instance. We could travel back to the time of the old WC2 mission, and fight him there. We could even be what tore him apart in the first place. The description was pretty vague, wasn't it?
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Gul'dan would make a great CoT - either 5man or a 10/25 quick raid. Tanaris could easily connect to South Seas via Steamwheedle, so being "stuck" in CoT if a Hearthstone's not up wouldn't be too bad.
We could either be disguised as assistants to help bring demons in, or disguised as demons to rip him apart. It'd also be nice to have a quest from Chromie: "Once you defeat Gul'dan, take the [Vial of Gul'dan's Blood] and draw these runes explaining the danger and folly of his quest."
Fighting 3 or 4 warlock-themed bosses back to back seems pretty boring, I'd be more enthused to have a more complex single raid boss. Unless they were clever - talk to Gul'dan's lieutenants, drag them away one by one, slay them and take on their illusionary form. Assist with the summoning event, then turn on Gul'dan.
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Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
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07/15/09, 1:10 PM
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#4089
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Great Tiger
Worgen Druid
Blade's Edge
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If we go to the Tomb of Sargeras I could see it being in a CoT instance type way with Gul'dan in it. Least that way they can keep the lore that it caved in but still let us go inside. If Cho'gall keeps thing sup then he probably would end up wherever the new Old God or Neptulon is.
Originally Posted by Vaccine
All of this is very Alliance/Night Elf orientated though, wondering how they're going to tie the Horde into it.
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Well the trolls could have some reason to go there to see the island they inhabited if it wasn't totally destroyed after the little event. Overall I could see Blizzard using whatever new race gets added (if one is added) as the main reason for going to the Maelstrom or in the end they could just fall back on 'Yea Azshara is trying to kill us all now'.
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07/15/09, 2:10 PM
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#4090
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Great Tiger
Night Elf Hunter
Moonglade (EU)
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Originally Posted by Leviathon
Overall I could see Blizzard using whatever new race gets added (if one is added) as the main reason for going to the Maelstrom or in the end they could just fall back on 'Yea Azshara is trying to kill us all now'.
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*cough* Goblins? And yes, since they have been supplying the Horde with all manner of technological services, it seems fair that they request some sort of military aid when their homeland suddenly gets invaded. And the Horde should be very interested in helping them, otherwise they'd find themselves suddenly unable to match the Alliance in the field.
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Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
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Originally Posted by Kaubel
You people are idiots
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Guilty as charged ^
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07/15/09, 5:13 PM
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#4091
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Don Flamenco
Tauren Druid
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
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Originally Posted by Exemplar
Because the Lore characters always become more powerful than Old Gods
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Well you can compare and Old God to a large animal, a cow or even an elephant, and the players to kolibris. Now, the elephant can throw around his trunk* and run around, and will kill some unattentive birds, but when those birds somehow find access to the behemoth's brain and start pecking at it, that might seriously injure and even kill him, at least he's gonna be incapacitated from the neural shock, seemingly dead in the birds' eyes when he crashes into the ground.
* thanks to the many people telling me the correct term through private messages Seems LEO wasn't that good here, should've checked PONS right away.
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On that topic, when will we see the Retcon that the Argent Champions killed Yogg before starting the challenges?
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Probably in a future comic, at it happened with Onyxia, probably even in the currently running one, if it continues to focus on Varian.
Last edited by Nathanyel : 07/15/09 at 5:36 PM.
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07/15/09, 7:56 PM
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#4092
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Piston Honda
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IMO the best CoT instance for Maelstrom would be the Sundering. You have to infiltrate Azshara's Palace while Malfurion, Tyrande, and Illidan all try to stop her from opening the portal for the Burning Legion. Maybe you're tasked with some behind-the-scenes bit like trying to sabotage the ritual somehow as the Infinite Dragonflight tries to make it a success. Or maybe you have to help free Tyrande from her prison or help Krasus in someway or whatever.
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07/15/09, 9:04 PM
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#4093
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Von Kaiser
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I agree that the best CoT instance for Maelstrom would be something revolving around the Sundering. However, the Gul'Dan thing would be awesome also, and allow us to do battle with him. Although, there is no preventing Blizzard from doing both scenarios. The Sundering could be a simple 5-man, with Gul'Dan in the Tomb of Sargeras being a full fledged raid instance.
Also, somebody mentioned Cho'Gall again. I would definitely like to see Cho'Gall implemented as his own Final Boss in a raid zone somewhere along the lines. However, I think he is best saved for an Old God themed expansion down the line where the Twilight Hammer Clan plays a huge role.
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07/16/09, 2:56 AM
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#4094
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Mr. Sandman
Night Elf Druid
Argent Dawn (EU)
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Not really sure a Gul'dan CoT would be that good, I mean he opens the door and gets killed by tons of demons. I suppose the infinite could be helping him but in the past they've been trying to stop the Orcs getting to Azeroth or ever forming the Horde (presumably to let the legion win at Hyjal).
A better CoT would be something pre-sundering, the Infinites try to assassinate Stormrage and Tyrande before they can reach Azshara's throne room to interfere with the summoning of Sargeras. It would introduce the players to Azshara, get them interacting with Stromrage (who I'm sure will be in the expansion more as he vowed to kill Azshara) and be pretty cool. It also might shed some light on the Infinite flight, if they're working for the legion or just trying to cause chaos or whatever.
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07/16/09, 7:50 AM
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#4095
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Piston Honda
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The only unifying factor I can think of in the whole CoT theme is they would all, directly or indirectly, allow for the Burning Legion to "win".
Durnholde: Kill Thrall, thus Thrall would never be there to help stop the Burning Legion or break the blood curse brought about by Mannoroth
Black Morass: Horde never comes to Azeroth, thus the Horde is never there to help stop the Legion.
Hyjal: The most blatant, because the Legion is -right there- trying to open a portal
Stratholme: Kill Arthas before he becomes a threat to the Legion/allies with the Lich King. With Frostmorne never found, the Lich King would lack that edge which would eventually allow him to betray the legion.
Of course, the question is: Do the flight server the Legion, or are they corrupted by Old Gods because the Old Gods know the only way they can escape their prison is by hijacking the Legion portal after it is created?
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