Maybe Blizz could solve the phasing problem by making the group leader's phase be the dominant one. So, simply stated, a higher level character could go back to the old style phased zones as long as the lower level character was the group leader.

I doubt we're going to see Wrynn develop any more. All his development is in the comic, he pretty much is who he is, though I wouldn't put him doing something awesome to make the Alliance players like him more out of the question.

As far as Garrosh, I think you people are too short-sighted. It is unlikely that he is as developed as he is going to be. Blizzard has specifically been working towards making you disagree with Garrosh and hate him. Why else would they take such incredibly popular characters as Saurfang and Thrall and put them at odds with him? Why would they make all of his judgments be so obviously flawed in reasoning? You're not supposed to like him...yet.

Unless Blizzard are complete idiots at writing a story, I'm almost positive that in Icecrown Garrosh will get some redemption. He is going to do something totally awesome that will make the player-base think that he rocks. He is going to, in some way, prove that he is a strong-enough leader to bring the horde to victory. At the same time, however, what he does will not in any way change his opinion of the Alliance. Perhaps his further development will make him hate the Alliance even worse, even if he grows to become less brash and stronger and wiser as a result.

No matter what happens, you guys need to look at the long run. I think Blizzard has every intention of developing these characters further, even if they're going to be dicks that you hate in the short term.

What phasing problem?

The constant discussion on the limitations of a phased old/new Azeroth is kinda redundant. The leak explicitly stated that the entire world would be transformed for all players, low levels included. Do not expect lower levels to be separated by phasing.

Dollars to pesos that if the leak is true, then Thrall/Jaina/Malfurion will become a neutral faction in the vein of the Argent Dawn.

One of the complaints many people always had was "It's world of WARcraft!!! lololol111!!!111". Obviously if you pay an iota of attention to the game, then it's quite clear that Thrall is rather level headed and wise. All out war wouldn't happen because Thrall -knows- all out war is self-defeating. He's a good leader, whereas Varion is a hothead who would end up destroying his kingdom rather then join with horde to combat a shared threat.

By removing Thrall from the leadership position and putting him in a place of power that has greater meaning (ie, keep the great buried evil in check), it makes it easier for Blizzard to explain why Horde vs. Alliance fighting keeps happening. Also bear in mind that the will of the people != the vision of the leader always. There could be alot of resentment. Look at the Theramore quests where you deal with the guys trying to stir the pot of racial hatred. I'm sure the same happens in the Horde.

Wow, thanks for the overlay! Looks like Silithus, Desolace, the Barrens, Mulgore, Dustwallow, Westfall, and Durotar get it the worst. There even seems like there's a bit of Icecrown taken off if the map is correct. Of particular note is how there's a tiny island at the southern point of Kalimdor right where AQ would be. Also, it would appear that the island in the middle of the Barrens would be pretty much exactly where Wailing Caverns is, which gives a little credit to some of the "leaked" info about the area. I'm getting excited to hear about Blizzcon.

This isn't entirely true. If you do the Horde Wrathgate quest, you'll see that one of the tunnels leading to the other elevator is blocked by rubble and the elevator itself is missing. Both are terrain changes.

Although the portal idea is certainly interesting, too. Since Blizzard would have to more or less redo all of Azeroth for flying, they could leave the old version for the lowbies and only create the new version "post-Catacylsm". It would probably be less technologically demanding as well.

If that map is a hint to whats to come then I don't think you should take the boundaries so literal (such as the Icecrown part you mentioned) since it is pretty clear it is done in a constellation type way and not how the coast would actually be. If the map isn't a hint then it probably was just done based on the original rough sketch map of Azeroth and other early Warcraft Azeroth maps that didn't include Silithus since I know a lot of early Kalimdor maps showed it similar to that.

I posted these maps I pulled from the data files on another forum. Guess they can be of use here.


..\Data\Lichking.MPQ - ..\World\Expansion02\Doodads\Ulduar\UL_Azeroth_Map.blp


..\Data\Lichking.MPQ - ..\World\Expansion02\Doodads\Ulduar\UL_Planet05.blp [90degree angle]


..\Data\Patch.MPQ - ..\World\Expansion02\Doodads\Ulduar\UL_WorldMap_01.blp


..\Data\Lichking.MPQ - ..\World\Expansion02\Doodads\Ulduar\UL_WorldMap_01.jpg

Side Notes: Lichking.MPQ has not been modified since the release of WoTLK.
Patch.MPQ is modified all the time with new patches.

50% Cross-Over Map

Thought: if they were considering adding a third playable faction, then you'd have two necessary preconditions. Allowing faction transfer, and rearranging the old world quests to make stuff make sense again.

There will not be any phasing in Azeroth. Just remember while TBC was on, so many players were suggesting, asking for flying in Azeroth, and developers stated many, many times that it's impossible due technical limitations of old continents. If they are about to implement flying in old world - they will make completely new (old looking) landmass, but from scratch. And what's better chance to do that then Cataclysm.

Old maps and textures are really old and need "tuning and polishing", Blizzard is not going to invest time in all those maps all together in order to just refresh them. They will do it and we get new content!

Remember Nazgrel is a member of the Garosh school of (non) thought. Vol'jin wouldn't be a likely candidate as I think Trolls are too weak a part of the Horde to have that big a voice. Drek'thar and Saurfang would be good, Cairne would be good, Rexxar is probably too much of a loner to accept responsibility, if he'd be followed at all, I think the Mok'nathal are a bit of a taboo in amongst the Orcs.

Sylvannas would be a better candidate for a war hungry anti human leader. She has the brains that Garosh lacks, the restraint to not cause diplomatic outbursts, and the cunning and startegy to hurt the Alliance whilst appearing to be on speaking terms. Also the Forsaken have a much better infrastructure than the Trolls and a capital of their own, which is fairly easy to defend and likely away from flood risks.

Another candidate not discussed much because hes been mute in WoW is the Blood Elf leader, Lor'themar Theron. The Blood Elves have a great infrastructure and government compared to the other Horde factions. They are one of if not the most powerful faction due to having the only access to Paladins (so far) as well as being the most powerful magic users in general of the Horde races lore wise. He is trusted by Sylvannas, or at least used to be, has vast experience fighting the Scourge and Arthas. Being second in command to the Ranger General (Sylvannas) during the third war would have given him vast tactical expertise. If not Saurfang or Cairne, he is probably the best choice in my opinion.



As for Tauren philosophy, I don't think it has changed, if anything it is getting more peace loving. For example they successfully negotiated with Brann Bronzebeard that the Dwarven digging sites in Mulgore would be allowed to continue with the constant supervision of Tauren Shaman to see that the land was repaired afterwards. In exchange the Dwarves helped attack the Venture Co sites and remove them all from Mulgore.

Also as has been said before, their primary affiliation is to Thrall, not the Horde. If he goes playing Superman and leaves Garrosh in his stead, Cairne would not follow him. I suspect that is why he is being killed off, but indications short of a complete character rewrite show Baine the same as his father in that respect. The Tauren civilisation is still on the edge of extinction, they aren't going to throw themselves into a war for no reason. I suspect if it does go ahead, Cairne will be assassinated by the Grim Totem's to keep it in house (at the request of Garosh) but Baine doesn't make much sense, he clearly isn't a puppet to the Grim Totem.



I've been thinking about ways that they could make this right if it did go ahead. One would be a Garosh repents story line. Maybe he gets a visit from Ghost of Grom, or maybe he sees Saurfang die to save him in Icecrown. He could realise what a massive dick he was being in neglecting the finer sides of leadership whilst still maintaining his hate for the Alliance, especially if they are responsible for Saurfang's death.

Another one could be he continues his dickory and a story arc of some sort of resistance stemming in Thunder Bluff starts when it is discovered Cairne was assassinated. It is assumed that Baine takes over due to him being missing from the PTR, but what if he had gone into hiding? We already know that Magatha has ambitions for the leadership of the Tauren, perhaps she conspires with Garosh to kill Cairne and takes over the leadership, and Baine is misplaced with the Bloodhoof loyalists and the story arc is him and others attempting to remove Magatha from power, and eventually Garrosh. Magatha already has strong ties with the Forsaken herself, so they would not move to intervene, and the trolls are too powerless as a faction to do anything. The Blood Elves likely don't care considering their general attachment, and would likely back the Forsaken in this anyway. She has much the same goals as Garrosh and Sylvannas in that she wants the humans and alliance races (and eventually the other Horde races) wiped off the earth as "lesser" species. In the Horde players guide there is even a line of text "it is rumoured she is trying to kill Bloodhoof but currently she is not powerful enough". More I think about it the more I think this seems a possible route they are going to take.