Liebestod

Given the new phasing technology, I could see them really taking liberties with it for the purpose of a CoT expansion.

I just can't see it as being a high priority at this point, with so much in the present world left to flesh out.

 

Jebraltar

The notion of a phased, CoT-based expansion also seems somewhat irritating from the perspective of, say, a Tauren. The majority of the well-known lore battles they could reproduce are from the First/Second Wars or the War of Eternity - any of which would have to have everyone disguised as Night Elves, Humans, Orcs, etc. It's kind of fun to see the occasional instance where I'm a human, but being in a human (or orc) disguise for an entire expansion might start to get grating, especially to people who rolled particular races because they liked appearance, not necessarily to get awesome racials. I'm not sure that's a road they want to head down.

 

• alcaras

Not sure why my Blood Elf turns into a Human, instead of a High Elf, in CoT: Stratholme.

 

AJAlkaline

Green eyes?

 

LucidityAxel

As entertaining as the idea of visiting past lore can be, I think Blizzard's focus for WoW should be on where the Warcraft universe is headed, not where it has been.

 

Emeraude

That is unless of course where it's headed was where it's been.

Assume for a moment, and I'm not saying this is accurate, that in CoT: Strath, Arthas never was supposed to find that grain, and we the players in fact made it available to him, ergo we are responsible for the greatest evil that exists on Azeroth.

There is tons of potential for the CoT instance, don't be so fast to snub it.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CX81UJZ8
For the lurking Phoenix Wright faithful.
What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.

 

• alcaras

Which is why'd I'd expect it to turn into a High Elf (blue eyes), instead of going to Human outright. High Elves were known back in Arthas' day.

 

LucidityAxel

I am merely stating a personal preference. As the saying goes, your mileage may vary.

Blizzard has arguably created the greatest game in the history of computer games with WoW. With the phasing technology they will introduce in WotLK, they have a tremendous opportunity to break free of the "static world" constraints that have thus far hobbled storytelling in MMO titles. With the amount of resources at their disposal, the sky is literally the limit.

Using such a platform to retread ground that has been well-established in previous titles is, to paraphrase J. Michael Straczynski, somewhat analagous to keeping a Porsche in the garage for fear of scratching the finish. Blizzard can blow the doors off the genre here; why play it safe?

 

AJAlkaline

I think one of the major issues with introducing new present day content as opposed to Caverns of Time content is that the Warcraft world has some ridiculously complex lore. This wouldn't be too much of a problem if it weren't for the fact that so much of this lore is pretty crucial storyline stuff. Furthermore, a lot of this has only been touched upon incredibly briefly via books and other media and throw away lines and quest text. Piling on more new events draws the franchise ever closer to reaching a point at which it is just suffocates in it's own complexity. Trying to explain who Nefarion was to my girlfriend took nearly ten minutes because I ended up having to go all the way back to explaining who the Titans were all the way to the War of the Ancients.

The other thing is that the majority of WoW players don't even know any of this stuff. My friend has logged over three months of play time on a single character and he had no idea where the blood elves came from, or what the dragon aspects were. He only knew how the orcs even got to Azeroth from running Black Morass. And this guy reads the quest text! I think focusing a lot more on what has happened in the past would really benefit Blizzard, especially after WotLK where they'll exhaust every obvious possibility (Illidan and Arthas). If they make the next expansion CoT based then they can afford to dig a bit deeper into their established lore, since past lore events will be fresh in player's minds, and it will become much easier for them to understand what's happening and why they're doing what they're doing.

 

Wizeowel

High Elves aren't a playable race, so the full complement of movement, actions, abilities, emotes have not been modelled within the game. Although it might seem they'd only need to change the colour of your eyes, probably there is more to it than this.

 

Nakari

That's hardly the case. High Elves use the exact same model as Blood Elves, only their eyes glow blue instead of green... just look at some NPCs like Vereesa Windrunner in Dalaran or the High Elf mobs in the Hinterlands. There are still some mobs around using the old (pre BC) High Elf models which indeed has other animations (it was based on the Night Elve model), for example some of the mobs in Blasted Lands, but those seem to be oversights.

 

Randyll

The requirement for having emotes isn't exactly what's needed for a race model to be playable. Models aren't completed without their animations and Blood Elves have High Elves practically the same model with the exception that high elves have blue eyes, hence they have the same animations.

As a proof, the Twin Emperors used Night Elf Male animations, so they were effectively reskinned night elf males. You could have them dance with WoW Model Viewer if you wanted to. So a model not beign playable doesn't really determine what you can have a model do or vice versa.

 

Wizeowel

You are both quick to react and vociferous in your assessment that playable high elves would just be blood elves with different eyes. However, it is entirely possible that Blizzard do not want a high elf to melee like a blood elf, cast like a blood elf or moreover sing 'hot like me'.

I disagree that examples of NPCs, whether or not they can dance in the model viewer, can really offer much insight into whether Blizzard would or should consider playable high elves appropriate in CoT:Strat as recoloured blood elves.

 

chrisb3

You can already morph into a variety of things which don't have full emote/dance animations.
I don't think that you undertand that Blood and High Elves are 99% identical exept for eye colour, there are a ton of them ingame already and they have full emote and dances ect just like Blood Elves do.
I don't see why a Blood Elf disguised as a High Elf using Blood Elf dances is a problem, it's still a Blood Elf so what is the problem with their emotes/dances?

 

Randyll

I don't see the reasoning behind this. Human players cast the same way as NPC's do. Coincidentally, High Elf mobs cast the same way as Blood Elf players do. So why should there be any difference? Lorewise, High Elves and Blood Elves are physiologically the same, except for the green eyes. Of course, non-visual stuff such as voice emotes and jokes are different. They wouldn't talk about "wearing magic addiction patch" or something. But they would look the same (as they currently do).

 

Douglas

Eh? The big battle back when the Well of Eternity was destroyed, when Illidan got his burning eyes, when Nordrasil was planted, et cetera, there was a war and Tauren were in the army. Dwarves weren't yet, because they were still Earthen back then, but Tauren were. Rhonin was the only human around, and was considered a freak. Broxigar was the only orc around, and was considered a freak.

 

Jebraltar

My mistake - I thought that that Tauren were still sort of sidelines folk at the time. That said, Humans would still have been completely out of place, orcs likewise, Forsaken at least as much if not moreso, etc.

 

Enova

Exactly so; the next expansion might not be a continent in itself, but there's lots of stuff in the existing continents to keep them going for a lot more expansions. Say the undisclosed instance in patch 3.2 is not AN (or even if it is for that matter), just tying up the loose ends of Gilneas and Kul'Tiras on one side, Grim Batol and the red dragonflight, Uludar and the titans, Hyjal, Deathwing and the Black Dragonflight (possibly in Outland, too) would give them enough material for an expansion, and provided they could pack the whole bunch of different stories and conflicting schemes in an expansion, it wouldn't add any new continents, while still providing several zones for people to level in.

Guilty as charged ^

 

• Rerox

You are forgetting about the marketing of such an expansion.

What you describe might "feel" good when played, but it will not "sell" good to 10-12 million subscribers.

"Visit the new ...", "Experience the new ..."

that's what sells the boxes. New lands to explore, new race or class to play, not experiencing old areas in a new way.
Details like that are largely expected to happen in content patches, not the large scale expansion add-ons.

Lets face it, there WILL be a completely new area to explore. The next expansion will with 100% certainity not play in Northrend or in well known Azerothian areas again and everything that might be added to Azeroth itself will be sidework to the main context.

This opinion is not based on any secret insider information, just on plain and simple economical considerations.

 

Sydane

From a marketing standpoint, you can sell anything as new. In fact, it can actually be easier to sell change as new than just new as new. I think Blizzard understands that the third expansion is going to be where the "formula" starts feeling a bit overdone. A new continent, maybe a new class, a new grind from 80 to 90, new factions, there's very little that sets that apart from BC or LK. It may be new, but it's new in the same old way. BC introduced many things during its content cycle that having them at the beginning of LK is "new" in a way (stuff like dailies). We're also seeing a new class for the first time. That won't be the case for expansion number three. Selling something as seeing "not the same old Azeroth any more" and playing up massive changes in many ways would seem more new than just visiting the south seas.

A parallel universe of sorts, a true updating of the old worlds, things like that would definitely break away from the paradigm. Increasingly I think we're much more likely to see Emerald Dream next than Maelstrom because Maelstrom would just be a new area, sure it might be islands instead of a continent, but it's still much the same. Emerald Dream has the potential to be something truly otherworldly, possibly much more disjointed and less structured. I don't know much of the lore beyond what is ingame, but I've always had the impression of it as being very surreal and tend to think of places like Planescape when it is referred to.

Empathy does not imply approval.

 

Randyll

Nobody knows whether there will be new classes yet, so it can't be ruled out entirely. There's still a handful of noteworthy lore characters to be exterminated.

As long as the expansion has a theme players can easily relate to, it won't be a problem to make money with it. Burning Crusade was successful because it was new (as a concept, an expansion) and introduced lots of new content. Northrend and Arthas isn't new in itself. Just so, that's really what makes expansions like WoTLK really good: players are familiar with it. Almost everyone knows who Arthas is, what is the Scourge and why do we have to embark on a journey full of vengeance. We know what's ahead of us, I wouldn't set my course against stuff that is too otherwordly.

I know it's a detail in the long run but they have to consider what kind of a threshold they're crossing. A place that players know nothing about might be too alien for the general public. Players will want to visit places for a reason. I know it's a bit naive to think that every player wants to see Arthas or whatever: people have different goals, some want to have something to do (i.e. too bored but not bored enough to quit) as in leveling, exploring new content and killing stuff that moves, naming a few.

If Blizzard stays true to its word and really gives us something new, it could be a blast. But it could be a flop, too. Myself, I'd like to see what's up with the Maelstrom than the Emerald Dream.

 

Aditu

CoT as an expansion itself isn't necessary because they can keep adding CoT instances with every single expansion pack, as they've done so far.

 

Randyll

I recently re-did these two quests on beta:

The Shining Light - Quest - World of Warcraft
Guided by Honor - Quest - World of Warcraft

The player is tasked with retrieving a "sacred artifact" from the Utgarde Catacombs. Unless I'm mistaken, in the latter quest, this item is revealed to be none other than the Ashbringer, and players are retrieving it for Tirion Fordring to wield.

However, in the the Death Knight questline, it's established that Darion Mograine was the wielder of this weapon. The way he got it from his father is rather unclear, it's what the Ashbringer comics are dealing with. However, from the DK questline, it's clearly established that he got the weapon from his father in Naxxramas, plunged it through his heart in order to save his father, died and became a death knight, got betrayed by Arthas in the light of dawn, and finally gave it to Tirion, whose grip cleansed it.

So a few questions came to mind:

1. How did the blade end up in the Utgarde Catacombs?
2. Is the quest just another way for non-dk's to participate in getting the Ashbringer to the hands of Fordring?
3. Or was the quest introduced in early WoTLK development when the Death Knight questline wasn't completely outlined? (Highly unlikely.)

As to #3, the quest giver could have passed the blade to Darion Mograine. But it doesn't explain how the blade ended up there.

 

gorsameth

I think the general idea about this sofar has been that Tirion received the weapon from Darion mograin.
It was then lost on its journey to Northrend by whoever Tirion assigned to carry it (how you lose on the of the greatest relics of modern time is something else)
And you then have to retrieve it from the catacombs to once again return it to Tirion.

 

Randyll

Just so, I'll quote a part of the quest:

What does this mean? Why would they toss it down there, or more importantly, who would do it?

Interestingly, WoWWiki has another version (older?) of the quest:

To me, this looks like in the original version (the one WoWWiki has), the light of dawn wasn't fully outlined yet. The dialogue following the second part of the quest probably implies that Tirion Fordring did indeed give the blade for someone to carry. Still, that part, and the losing of the blade, strike me as something really awkward. Like you said, how can you lose such a thing?

I guess it's just something they had to implement so that all (Alliance) players would have something to do with the Ashbringer early in Northrend. I mean, there's hardly any good explanation for having "the artifact hurled into the den of the fallen", other than for players to rescue it.