They could just pull a Rexxar and have him replaced by one of his underlings.

As for Cataclysm, you've got to assume that with the rework of all zones they're going to address things like that. If Blightcaller moves to the Throne room, well they could do a Rexxar or they could just rework EPL. I like EPL for a hub of fat XP quests when I was levelling various characters in vanilla, but it was always very grindy. It could do with an overhaul really.

As for Garrosh you never know, he may turn into a decent leader. I thought the seperation of the Orcs/Tauren thing was just a plotline to boot out the trolls making them found their own city/town.

Edit: Theres a little too much unfounded rumourmongering going on though. We've got a hint that "Dark days ahead for the Horde" somehow equals Carine dead. People's sole reason for believing Saurfang dead is that he wasn't chosen to be the Warchief (maybe he didn't want to?). Speculation is one thing but a lot of this seems completely unfounded guesswork.

Actually, my suspicion that Saurfang will be killed in 3.3 is his choice for Icecrown. I mean, Garrosh would be the logical (mark this word) choice. He's the commander of the Horde forces in Northrend, he should be in the front lines when it's time to hit the fan. Saurfang's pick for the job (we don't know who made it but I think it's reasonable to assume the old man wants vengeance against Arthas) starts to look very much like a tragic story in which the father ends up being killed by his son. This isn't exactly a wild card, it's something that has real story elements supporting it.

And yes, Garrosh's rise to Warchief does give more credit to my view on this subject. Saurfang promised to kill Garrosh. And I can see the eviction of 2/3 of the Horde races from Orgrimmar being reason enough for the old guy to pop Cleave.

Cairne's death is speculation, yes, and it first came up on MMO-Champ, but it's one I not only like a lot as a plot element, I also feel it's explainable, wether it's Garrosh that kills him under accusations of treason or a plan by Magatha.

I really don't feel Garrosh, Cairne or Saurfang have been subject to anything worse than healthy speculation, here. Perhaps a lot of it, but nothing went past the possibility of Garrosh being/being controlled by a Black Dragon. And that's plausible as well.

There's an interesting comment to a WoW.com article: A critical examination of Garrosh Hellscream
Planned to quote the full post, but let's crop it to this:

Well he is the obvious choice for Icecrown because he has the most experience but also because his son is likely a boss there. Wyrnn is going to cry when he sees Bolvar and fights him presumably, Saurfang will do the same for his son. It wouldn't matter much if it was Garrosh instead, as he wouldn't care.

Saurfang said he'd kill him if he took the Horde down the path they used to be when demon possessed, killing Dranei babies is specifically brought up. There is a huge difference between that and taking a more offensive stance in the war between Horde and Alliance. Saurfang has no problem with war, just with slaying children (indicated that in their bloodlust they slew their own children as well as Dranei) and the like and mindless bloodlust. I think Garrosh could still be Warchief with Saurfang about, as his chief advisor and military tactician, he would learn from him.

The Cairne thing basically came about from someone noticing his son was missing on the PTR and assuming it meant a dead Cairne. There are a hundred other reasons he could have been moved, to take a more active role in it, to be head of the new Tauren section in Orgrimarr, to head one of the front line tauren towns in the catacylsm, etc...

How is Garosh being controlled by a Black Dragon plausible? When Black Dragon's previously acted as humans, they were cold and calculating, or through spell work incredibly charming. Garrosh is none of these things, and hasn't shown any sign of such corruption/control.

Saurfang has the experience, but Garrosh is the leader. Just as Saurfang may be making the more strategic decisions and Hellscream keeping to a certain symbolism - his strategy for Northrend seems to resemble a cannonball...

Plus, Saurfang isn't aware, as far as we know, of his son being having been risen, so his reason (and not Blizzard's) to go is probably to exact revenge for the death of his son, not the boy's rise as a Death Knight. Saurfang's getting old, he's suffered his greatest blow since the death of his brother and Garrosh's ascension is still taking place. If it corresponds to the referred "dark days ahead", well, I see no better way to present them than with the death of Thrall's best warranty that Garrosh won't run amock. And death at his son's hands would be the supreme tragedy for the Horde, right now, barring Thrall's death.

Granted, him killing Junior would be good as well, as a plot element, and open doors for possible changes to his personality.

I'm not sure Cairne's death theory came from the diseappearance of his son in-game or was something told to Boubouille. I believe the latter is what happened, and he used Baine not being there to support his theory.

I don't want to discuss the Black Dragon theory too much, it's still a bit stretchy, even I find it plausible, but it's far from my favorite. Suffice to say that the Prestors were charming because it was the best way to appeal to humans. In order to appeal to Orcs and a Horde composed mostly of battle-loving races (even if they're making an effort to act different) is to reach out to that lust for violence. So, there's always a margin for a black dragon impersonating a faction leader to create instability. It's normal, when they're planning to take over the whole damn thing.

But this is really far from what I think will happen.

Saurfang getting killed would be a bad thing, especially in light of Garrosh leading the Horde. Thrall is clearly going to be MIA, so Garrosh needs a foil to keep him from going completely out of control, in addition to someone doing damage control and hopefully undermining some of his worst ideas. This is the role Saurfang played in Warsong Hold, and it would be a good role for him to continue playing. If Garrosh is to undergo any sort of character development, a mentor needs to be present, and Saurfang is currently the best fit for the job.

It makes more sense than killing off a well-liked character just to introduce someone completely new that will also need to be developed and then later pushed aside.

I think Black Dragons might be more plausible than some might think.

They were active in Outland, they are a prominent threat in Cataclysm, and with the horde's ascendant power they are surely a larger target for corruption/meddling than they were at the beginning of WoW. The Dragons don't need to be charming and intelligent, they manipulate however they see as best to accomplish their goals.

In this case, riling up the extremist elements of the horde and sending them headlong into a costly war with the Alliance, dwindling both forces and lowering the chances that a united front against Deathwing can be made. Perhaps Garrosh isn't a black dragon doppelganger, but at the very least he seems to be acting as if he were ensorcelled to be an extra-large jackass beyond even the scope of a normal bloodthirsty orc.

I'm not saying that's what I think, just that it has plausability.

Personally I am hoping that Garrosh's personality changes are his own, and his actions are leading to a civil war between the forces of the horde that wish to be a Nation, under Thrall, and those that wish to be a band of marauding savages, under Garrosh. I would bet hard currency that if this path is chosen Garrosh will be beaten back after his blitzkrieg victories (he's shown a disdain for the preparations involved with actual warfare) and then his fair-weather supporters will start to align with more moderate horde elements against him. Eventually leading to him breaking away with "his" remaining forces back to outland and invoking another demon pact. Cue Cataclysm 2: outland redux with the threats of the Burning Legion beginning to align more solidly with the Old Gods and their azerothian minions. Demon Blood-corrupted Grimtotem would be.... interesting.

Depending on how far Blizzard would be willing to go to change it's game/make it more interesting this could even result in a third faction, basically black as far as shades-of-gray goes, with anywhere from ex-horde and demons for it's races or expats from all the other races available to it, possibly with some class restrictions.

(just to chime in on the previous page's discussion, I do not believe Bolvar becoming Forsaken would make ANY sense. It is in his character to fall on his sword before becoming an undead "aberration", be understanding if Varian attacked him thinking he were just an undead husk of his best friend, and the Forsaken are who would be primarily to blame for his death in the first place. Plus it would piss plenty of alliance off to the point that they would just bugger off to another game that are playing, at least in part, for the Lore. I mean, imagine if Saurfang suddenly turned alliance.)

I don't see how Garrosh could kill Cairne and get away with it, even if he is the new leader of the horde. Not only would the tauren take up arms against him but Thrall would probably kill Garrosh if Saurfang wasn't there to do it. And that big of a rift in the horde would be catastrophic. The Trolls would more than likely side with the Tauren if Garrosh went crazy and did something like that, and we all know Sylvannas would follow Thrall, who also would want to avenge his old friends death. I really see no plausible way how Garrosh could kill Cairne and the horde still stay in one piece. Yes Cairne is old and should probably pass away soon, but i highly doubt it's at the hand of Garrosh.

Blizz said we were going to leave pieces of ourselves in Icecrown. With the announced changes to Orgrimmar I'm almost positive Saurfang will die. There's a possibility Jaina will die as well in either the raid or the 5 man, removing a key moderate influence from the Alliance as well. There are quests that definitely drive home the grim nature of the war against the scourge, but unless it's a set piece or a cutscene most people skip through it. It's also a little one-sided faction wise. Just an example, instead of putting your comrades out of their misery and making sure they aren't raised as scourge, the horde's quest is to... get revenge.. on the alliance. That they ambushed. :\

They need to add something that tugs at the emotional strings of the Horde besides what lay in the Argent Crusade's quests. They need some blood & honor back instead of just warmongering to lead up to what waits in icecrown itself.

Agreed, the Black Dragon in disguise/mind control, as far as Garrosh is concerned, is far less interesting, in my scope, than the current predicament of him trying to follow his father's steps.

Saurfang's death would clearly happen in order for Hellscream to be unleashed. It's not really a matter of him being cast aside in the future - every character dies, eventually, it's how Blizz does it that matters. If that's what Blizzard's aiming at, then Saurfang perishing in a fight with his son is one hell of a way to kill the old guy. If Blizzard's indeed trying to leave a piece of us in Northrend, then killing Saur, especially that way (he may succeed in killing his son and then die agains Arthas), is one awesome way to do it.

Same thing for Alliance with Wrynn having to kill Bolvar (not that Wrynn dies, of course, too abrupt). One can imagine the effects of killing a best friend in such a traumatized character - I'm thinking it will deepen Varian's resentment of the Forsaken and open new ways of aggression on the part of the Alliance.

Garrosh doesn't necessarily need a counterbalance for us to "monitor" his fall into the Old Horde-style. We'll have 4 Horde races being kicked out to let us know how things fare. It'll feel like an exodus and a very hard time for the [current] Horde.

No babies need to die in order for Saur to intervene (I'm not saying he kills Garrosh, he might just try to give him a beating). I'm sure Saurfang has enough clairvoyance to see the eviction of the majority of Horde races from the faction's main city is proof that Hellscream is driving full-speed ahead towards the cliff. He wouldn't put up with that and I hope Blizzard isn't thinking of stretching characters' traits to the point of absurdity in order not to displease the masses. A timely diseappearance with a well-thought death is often as important as what the character does in life. It's the last image we have of him.

Well Blizzard showed they don't have a problem inconveniencing players for a short period like they did during the 2nd Plague outbreak.

It would be interesting if they teleported/banned those 3 races from the city for a matter of days, just to get their point across, players would complain and get mad, but then that would be the point wouldn't it? Since there are other cities.