World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 369

Kaejin · 07/22/10, 7:18 AM

You can scatter an anthill and step on a couple, but they're just going to rebuild.

Better to just get the plan in motion that's going to wipe them out completely.

Bierzkrieg · 07/22/10, 7:46 AM

Well, yes, crashing through the Maelstrom has a better change of wrecking the whole world.

But, knowing Deathwing, making a hole the size of a small town right next to a big town is much more like him.

Plus, he's crazy. Both scheming and a bloodthirsty jaw with a winged komodo dragon attached. So he sometimes likes to step on a couple of ants just to see the other shittying bricks. Ego plays a part in these things.

Zaniel · 07/22/10, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg

Well, yes, crashing through the Maelstrom has a better change of wrecking the whole world.

But, knowing Deathwing, making a hole the size of a small town right next to a big town is much more like him.

Plus, he's crazy. Both scheming and a bloodthirsty jaw with a winged komodo dragon attached. So he sometimes likes to step on a couple of ants just to see the other shittying bricks. Ego plays a part in these things.

Which is probably exactly why he dared to come through the Maelstrom. I mean, we're all talking about it as though it's some routine entry point, that it makes the most sense. To whom? There's never been anything like what is about to happen. The previous examples of beings entering the world never crossed the Maelstrom. It's not like the Dark Portal, where things come and go at will.

I agree that Deathwing needs to showcase his magnificence and ego, but isn't breaking through into our world using the Maelstrom exactly that?

Bierzkrieg · 07/22/10, 11:53 AM

It's a black cyborg dragon the size of your neighbourhood...coming into a world through a permanent tornado of energy. Of course it'll always be awesome.

We don't know much about the Maelstrom other than its origin. That Deathwing chooses it to cross planes speaks of some sort of portal properties, wether it's because of the energy flux, the explosion that took place, etc.

What I'm pointing out is that Neltharion coming to Azeroth through a random spot is more menacing. Not only because said point doesn't have the "conductive" properties of the Maelstrom, but also because it speaks more of Deathwing's omnipotent mindstate.

That said, it does look better in the cinematic if he comes through the Maelstrom - no sarcasm here.

Exemplar · 07/22/10, 2:39 PM

I think Bierz's point was:
Sargeras, KJ, and the like have to plot and scheme to get extremely powerful doorways opened for them. They cannot just bust through wherever they desire. They are limited in entry point.

Having Deathwing arrive via Maelstrom (i.e. Well of Eternity remnants) makes him appear limited, not more badass.

Deathwing can walk through the stately front door. He can wander in the tradesman's entrance. Or he could have a wall knocked down and install his own door 50 feet high, made of pure gold, inscribed with frieze that make the Parthenon look mundane, and wired for light and sound. Which is more awesome, using the front door (Maelstrom), or making his own?

Doesn't matter that the Maelstrom itself is damn cool and pretty (it is). The ability to make your own door to transfer between planes is bigger than Sargeras (as we know him). The Na'aru have never hinted they could do so, and the Titans have never made a portal that I've seen (just Ulduar teleporters, cue the Stargate theme).

Enova · 07/22/10, 3:08 PM

Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg

Well, yes, crashing through the Maelstrom has a better change of wrecking the whole world.

But, knowing Deathwing, making a hole the size of a small town right next to a big town is much more like him.

Plus, he's crazy. Both scheming and a bloodthirsty jaw with a winged komodo dragon attached. So he sometimes likes to step on a couple of ants just to see the other shittying bricks. Ego plays a part in these things.

Well, he is still the Black Aspect, the Earthwarder, and he's aware of that, no matter how batshit bonkers he may be. He probably still retains some kind of twisted connection to the lands of Azeroth, even if not the need to protect them. I would assume completely destroying the anthill is something he's trying to avoid.

Leguaran · 07/22/10, 4:02 PM

Originally Posted by Enova

Well, he is still the Black Aspect, the Earthwarder, and he's aware of that, no matter how batshit bonkers he may be. He probably still retains some kind of twisted connection to the lands of Azeroth, even if not the need to protect them. I would assume completely destroying the anthill is something he's trying to avoid.

I can't directly link the source for what I'm writing next, but I'll look it up and try to put it here asap:

If I recall correctly, as Neltharion, early on the shaping of the world, he made sure all races not only had to go through significant physical hurdles to reach one another (some were completely isolated by mountains), in order to avoid different civilizations clashing, and he also made sure everyone had plenty natural resources, so they didn't see the need to march over other species looking for means of survival.

Having changed into Deathwing, one of his first actions was to undo much of this, de-isolating species from one another, and destroying much of natural resources, ensuring that forever nations would have to battle one another for survival. He gave Azeroth the worst possible gift he could: War.

I don't think he's all that concerned if he blazes a few anthills on the way. I find it more likely that he simply doesn't care about us much, in a way. If he tosses and turns a few cities in his wake, that's not a problem. If he doesn't, it's all the same, he's indifferent, he finds himself to be that superior over the rest of us. As long as he isn't tried to be stopped, he would ignore us for the most part until it came to the last parts of his plan to eradicate the lesser mortal races from the planet and give it back to the dragons, with the blacks being at the top of the hierarchy.

Monocle · 07/22/10, 4:21 PM

Originally Posted by Enova

Well, he is still the Black Aspect, the Earthwarder, and he's aware of that, no matter how batshit bonkers he may be. He probably still retains some kind of twisted connection to the lands of Azeroth, even if not the need to protect them. I would assume completely destroying the anthill is something he's trying to avoid.

Deathwing is also a native of Azeroth, so this is pretty much him coming home. That's a lot different then then a giant demon trying to get through. If anyone on the planet would know the easiest doorway to use to come back, it would certainly be him. He also has a history of world hoping, by now he is a bit of an expert of the best way to go about doing so.

Enova · 07/22/10, 4:51 PM

Originally Posted by Leguaran

I don't think he's all that concerned if he blazes a few anthills on the way. I find it more likely that he simply doesn't care about us much, in a way. If he tosses and turns a few cities in his wake, that's not a problem. If he doesn't, it's all the same, he's indifferent, he finds himself to be that superior over the rest of us. As long as he isn't tried to be stopped, he would ignore us for the most part until it came to the last parts of his plan to eradicate the lesser mortal races from the planet and give it back to the dragons, with the blacks being at the top of the hierarchy.

I don't think he cares what happens on the planet, who the current superpowers are, what their motives are. To him, the mortal races are the ants. But, the way I intended the metaphor, there is only one anthill - Azeroth. Stormwind, Orgrimmar and the likes, are, at best, tunnel junctions in the mound. They could all collapse, burn, or get flooded, for all he cares. However, he would very much care about the fact that he no longer has a planet.

Maybe Azeroth's very existence ensures his powers, maybe his powers are innate, but only limited to Azeroth, maybe the damage done to the Azeroth hurts him as well. But at any rate, I don't believe Deathwing would do anything to irreparably destroy the entire planet. Superficial changes to the crust? Of course, as long as it furthers his goals. Pulling a Ner'zhul? Most certainly not. He's not that insane. He's a dominator, not a destroyer. A schemer, not a brute. His plans have a (deluded, but grandiose) goal, not just wanton destruction for the sake of it.

He might believe in the Black Flight's superiority, and he might be talking to the voices in his head half the damned time, but he's aware he needs a planet as a base of operations, and if it's still populated by enslaved minions, all the better.

Bierzkrieg · 07/22/10, 4:53 PM

@Leguaran: what you said also hints at him enjoying mindscrews and bleeding his victims until the point where he feels a ball of magma to the face is in due order. That he messed with accessibility and resources when he could've just spawned a mountain under village centers speaks of his cruel nature.

I don't know if we've ever had an efficient villain that has read the Evil Overlord List but, for better or worse, Deathwing surely isn't that guy. And it's really part of his charm.

He believes himself to be god-like - he really does. And Blizzard has actually played that rather interestingly. Yes, he's been beaten by lvl 60 wizards but, having read some novels, I think I'm not too far from truth if I say Deathwing is the most hyped-up arch-villain in the Warcraft universe. He withstands a full-on charge by Gruul, he's been said to be the size of a palace, his shadow able to cover a whole valley, he's withstood simultaneous attacks from Sargeras and Old Gods, etc. And this has been done without taking away the tragedy that is his fall.

So, all in all, I'd much rather have Neltharion burst through a beach than the Maelstrom, but as it is, I'm ready to shut my mouth if Blizzard makes his entrance the most visually stunning piece of cinematic they can manage.

Halibell · 07/22/10, 7:18 PM

New-Sinestra

YouTube - Sinestra Encounter Emotes

Now this next one is my favorite, Sylvanas speaks of the Forsaken's past and of it's future
YouTube - Sylvanas Speeches

Garrosh and Sylvanas

YouTube - Sylvanas and Garrosh

"You Are Dismissed!!"

YouTube - Garrosh Dismissing Krom'gar

Kaejin · 07/22/10, 7:47 PM

I was expecting him to drop a "BOW DOWN BEFORE THE GOD OF DEATH!" at the end there.

Some of those early lines seemed a bit rough compared to the later clips. The voice sounds a little too forced when he's supposed to be yelling, or... talking loudly? I dunno. It's a lot better after 00:34, though. You definitely get the feel that his voice should cause the ground to tremble.

Bierzkrieg · 07/22/10, 8:11 PM

Well, talk about god complex: Unmaker of Worlds, Death Incarnate, "Death is my realm"...he seems to be on a power pedestal.

I hear a "Ugh", let's hope one doesn't come up every time Deathwing appears. No more Lich King-esque weakness, please.

More importantly, though...we seem to be on the right way to see Deathwing thrashing Alexstrasza. Which makes some sense, since we know nothing of her in the coming expansion - also, that piece of art that made it to the cover of the WoW Magazine could've been a hint.

PS: Garrosh has the meanest orc voice I've ever heard. Those horns must be dripping testosterone.

Bierzkrieg · 07/22/10, 8:12 PM

Well, talk about god complex: Unmaker of Worlds, Death Incarnate, "Death is my realm"...he seems to be on a power pedestal.

I hear a "Ugh", let's hope one doesn't come up every time Deathwing appears. No more Lich King-esque weakness, please.

More importantly, though...we seem to be on the right way to see Deathwing thrashing Alexstrasza. Which makes some sense, since we know nothing of her in the coming expansion - also, that piece of art that made it to the cover of the WoW Magazine could've been a hint.

PS: Garrosh has the meanest orc voice I've ever heard. Those horns must be dripping with testosterone.

Edit: Double post, sorry.

Emeraude · 07/22/10, 8:57 PM

He does seem to be roaring alot everytime he opens his mouth, it's a far cry from his voice in ToC, or even this trailer. World of Warcraft Community Site

He sounded sinister and had a nasty streak about him, now he's just more of a meathead....I....guess that's what the Orcs are looking for in their leadership?

Edit: another one uploaded, this of Vol'jin/Garrosh conversation, and one of Garrosh yelling and going into battle and rawr in the Twilight Highlands.

YouTube - Garrosh (Bonus: Vol'jin)

Bierzkrieg · 07/22/10, 9:18 PM

I don't know, I have a soft spot for them roaring types. I guess that's why I'm still getting used to Deathwing's voice, it's not "rumbly" enough.

Garrosh does seem wiser, both in his vocabulary and in what he says. But his "B-ITCH!" line takes the trophy, being so full of contempt and urge to hurt Sylvannas.

One last sound clip

Garrosh and Vol'jin and Garrosh in various battles:

YouTube - Garrosh (Bonus: Vol'jin)

"Get.Of.My.SHIIIP." Such ham.

Edit: Functioning Deathwing clip

YouTube - Deathwing Cataclysm Dialog

Cybsled · 07/22/10, 9:26 PM

Deathwing clip is gone...it's just some stupid French techno clip now

Krixooks · 07/22/10, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Emeraude

Edit: another one uploaded, this of Vol'jin/Garrosh conversation, and one of Garrosh yelling and going into battle and rawr in the Twilight Highlands.

YouTube - Garrosh (Bonus: Vol'jin)

So the first half of this clip is the final conversation between Vol'jin and Garrosh but the rest of the clip is full of Garrosh voice acting from the invasion of the Twilight Highlands?

The most interesting part is when he says "Ah, there she is. The battle-maiden of the Dragonmaw, let me see your face. Blood and honour hero, the Horde welcomes you, your people will be put to the test as we obliterate Twilight's Hammer, and lay claim to this distant shore."

So it seems that the whiners on the WoW cataclysm forums got their Female Leader even if it isn't a goblin. Perhaps the daughter of Nek'rosh Skullcrusher?

A love interest for Garrosh? :P

Emeraude · 07/22/10, 10:40 PM

I'm still waiting on Thrall's love interest, Metzen said there will be no hybrid breeding between Jaina/Thrall, and he wanted to keep that Bloodline pure Orc!

Leguaran · 07/23/10, 1:09 AM

Have these been mentioned? I believe they are from the latest push: (I placed them within spoilers as to not break formatting or visually spam you.

Falstad has been replaced in the Ironforge Council, Kurdran is back from Outlands and sitting at the table in his place.

← Click Here

Flavor dialogue text added to an NPC in refuge point regarding the return of Danath Trollbane:

← Click Here

This is interesting to me. Sons of Lothar finally making a return from Outlands and back into the Alliance. For a gameplay standpoint, I wouldn't expect Khadgar to make a return, seeing as he is so tied up with the Naaru now, but it would certainly be nice if we were to see Danath coming back to find his cousin, Prince Galen, turned undead and allied with the Horde/Forsaken.

One can hope we will see some fighting over the ruins of Stromgarde, its Prince, now part of the Horde, with legitimate claim over the land (in a way, you can say he does, though it would be disputed by the Alliance on grounds he is not alive anymore, and it's not like they would want the Horde to have it), and Danath, his cousin, with a claim of his own to retake itfor the Alliance.

Much potential for awesome story development.

Emeraude · 07/23/10, 1:43 AM

So the WPL quest for Uther's tome is still bugged.

But EPL opened! It starts off simple enough, 2 Paladins want in to the Argent Crusade/Dawn, and you help them along the way, I'm still doing the quests. Tyr's hand is overun with Undead Scarlets.

Scarlet Commander Marjhan, Hunsman Leopold, Mataus the Wrathcaster and Rohan the Assassin were all killed and turned into Undead. :<

And we have a payday, I decided to do the quests inside Startholme, and got some information on Dreadlord death, this is one that I've been asking, and we've ALL been asking for quite some time =D

Strath is NOT 2 separate instances, but you can't access the Baron side without zoning in from the side-enterance, the gates are down leading from the Crusader side to the Scourge side.

The Argent Crusade moves in and occupies each respective area after the new Baron/Balnazzar die.

Liebestod · 07/23/10, 2:44 AM

Does Sylvanas have a new VA? Her having a new england accent is pretty amusing.. "I will nevah allow it. Nevah!"

Also, it seems like her history has been retconned (again)? She says that she only got her body back after rebelling against Arthas, while in TFT she's a Dark Ranger from the start of the campaign, before she rebels. I know the lore over when she got her body back was always somewhat murky, but this clearly contradicts Warcraft 3.

Senex · 07/23/10, 3:28 AM

Originally Posted by Liebestod

Also, it seems like her history has been retconned (again)? She says that she only got her body back after rebelling against Arthas, while in TFT she's a Dark Ranger from the start of the campaign, before she rebels. I know the lore over when she got her body back was always somewhat murky, but this clearly contradicts Warcraft 3.

I believe that, at the beginning of the TFT campaign, Sylvanas was possessing a random High Elf corpse. After her rebellion, she was able to hunt down and reclaim her original body (which was sealed in an iron coffin by Arthas).

Izarus · 07/23/10, 7:52 AM

Someone on official forums managed to sinish Andorhal questline on Alliance site. Link
Thassarian apparently is moving to Tirisfal to hunt down Sylvanas

Bierzkrieg · 07/23/10, 8:02 AM

Everything according to plan...as soon as Thassarian prepares to face Sylvannas, a frothing, berserking - and familiar - undead elf will step out of a portal. Big fight and tragic outcome ensue.