World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 41

Emeraude · 09/25/08, 3:17 AM

Originally Posted by QControl

You're missing something pretty big at Onslaught Harbor. Hint: Do the lockbox daily.

Less subtle hints, more outright spoilers please. This thread is labeled as such for a reason.

Liebestod · 09/25/08, 3:20 AM

Originally Posted by QControl

You're missing something pretty big at Onslaught Harbor. Hint: Do the lockbox daily.

I actually know about this, but I consider it poor form on Blizzard's part to make dailies lead into regular quests, so I'm imagining that there will be more to do. Plus, it's only a 4-quest chain or something, right? They have to add more to that area.

But those are the only quests I know of that I missed, I'm at something like 122/140 for the Icecrown Achievement. If I did all the 5-mans plus the Harbor series, I'd be at up to 132/140 or so. So they have to be adding some more somewhere, and there are only a few undeveloped areas, as listed above. I guess maybe some quests could be added to the Court of Skulls or whatever as well, maybe the ramparts in front of the Citadel as well.

[Edit]

Actually, I should check to see if they added anything to Naz'ranak...

[Edit2]

Altar of the Ebon Depths.. that's new, but I've no idea what it's for.

Zedd · 09/25/08, 3:55 AM

I can understand that the "sylvanas" that Arthas utters is ment as a general remark to the Forsaken, but for less lore-interested people it can be understood as if Putriss (Spelling?) is being called sylvanas.

This is asuming it was never intended for sylvanas to betray the Horde (Wich I assume was the original plan)

The cinematic is wonderfull.

ZulazeeluIcecrown · 09/25/08, 3:58 AM

Originally Posted by Zedd

I can understand that the "sylvanas" that Arthas utters is ment as a general remark to the Forsaken, but for less lore-interested people it can be understood as if Putriss (Spelling?) is being called sylvanas.

This is asuming it was never intended for sylvanas to betray the Horde (Wich I assume was the original plan)

The cinematic is wonderfull.

I really think that's a bad assumption. Hints have been being dropped from day one that Varimathras was going to betray Sylvanas. Hints have not been dropped that Sylvanas was directly going to betray anyone. Yes, the Royal Apothecary Society was quite clearly up to no good, and there's even the quest from Duskwood that makes it clear they intend to betray the Horde. But the vast majority of the Forsaken honestly do seem to be completely unaware of all that... I don't think any quest directly involving Sylvanas indicates that she knows the details either.

I think the worst you could attribute to Sylvanas was her willingness to turn a blind eye to the activities of the RAS. A fault shared by Thrall, for what that's worth.

Brio · 09/25/08, 4:05 AM

I think these assumptions are quite silly. Arthas doesn't mention Sylvanas until after Putress is professing vengeance for the Forsaken. With what he knew, he would be right to assume Sylvanas put him up to this. Also, about the "voice changes." If they were to take the time to make changes for Putress, and it was indeed Sylvanas instead, why would they leave Arthas to mention her? If it was a money issue (paying the voice actor), they could have just taken it out.

Randyll · 09/25/08, 4:56 AM

Originally Posted by Brio

I think these assumptions are quite silly. Arthas doesn't mention Sylvanas until after Putress is professing vengeance for the Forsaken. With what he knew, he would be right to assume Sylvanas put him up to this. Also, about the "voice changes." If they were to take the time to make changes for Putress, and it was indeed Sylvanas instead, why would they leave Arthas to mention her? If it was a money issue (paying the voice actor), they could have just taken it out.

I think it's better to assume that Arthas doesn't know about the betrayal, nor about Putress. He thinks this is just another thing plotted by the Forsaken. If I put myself in Arthas' place, I'd think, "Damnit! The Forsaken are up to something again... Damn Sylvanas and her plans!". Atleast, with that premise it makes perfect sense why he'd mention her name. I really doubt Blizzard are that dumb for leaving details like that unattended.

Incoherence · 09/25/08, 5:24 AM

Originally Posted by ZulazeeluIcecrown

I think the worst you could attribute to Sylvanas was her willingness to turn a blind eye to the activities of the RAS. A fault shared by Thrall, for what that's worth.

This is true. Thrall's been leaving those level 15 Burning Blade cultists lying around for years now, and not for lack of firepower either.

Perhaps, given the number of failed plagues the apothecaries in Howling Fjord and Dragonblight cook up, Sylvanas simply thinks the Royal Apothecary Society hasn't found a viable plague yet, and when one is found, Putress (who would be one of the first to know about it) and Varimathras make their move quickly.

Dancing Wu Li Master · 09/25/08, 6:52 AM

Originally Posted by Zedd

I can understand that the "sylvanas" that Arthas utters is ment as a general remark to the Forsaken, but for less lore-interested people it can be understood as if Putriss (Spelling?) is being called sylvanas

It'll be a lot more obvious in context though; the quests around it pretty clearly show what's happening to Sylvanas.

Typhon · 09/25/08, 7:14 AM

Originally Posted by Incoherence

This is true. Thrall's been leaving those level 15 Burning Blade cultists lying around for years now, and not for lack of firepower either.

I think this is more a function of the static world/lack of phasing in Kalimdor, than anything else. Granted, in the questlines *before* entering RFC, he explicity says he is watching them, but as far as I remember (its been about three years since I had a character of the appropriate level), with the exception of Neeru Fireblade (?), the quests in RFC make it clear that the problem has been dealt with.

Talgog · 09/25/08, 9:15 AM

Originally Posted by Liebestod

Looks like the Matthias quest ends with Arthas' heart being destroyed by Tirion because he believes that there's nothing left to redeem. But given the existence of Matthias, that's hard to believe.

Well in fairness, Tirion got to withness "APOCALYPSE!" That was pretty recent in lore as well, compared to Arthas' prior actions in Warcraft. Seeing the Argent Dawn at LHC slaughtered for random amusement wouldn't go over well.

Leguaran · 09/25/08, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Talgog

Well in fairness, Tirion got to withness "APOCALYPSE!" That was pretty recent in lore as well, compared to Arthas' prior actions in Warcraft. Seeing the Argent Dawn at LHC slaughtered for random amusement wouldn't go over well.

What is the name of the quest that follow's "Tirion's Gambit" ? Would like to take a look at the quest text.

Liebestod · 09/25/08, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Leguaran

What is the name of the quest that follow's "Tirion's Gambit" ? Would like to take a look at the quest text.

Tirion's Gambit is actually the last quest in the chain.

• Chicken · 09/25/08, 11:05 AM

This is the quest text that happens during Tirion's Gambit:

Note that the scene this all takes place in is inside a cathedral of sorts of the Cult of the Damned, very close to Icecrown Citadel itself. You're surrounded on all sides by cultists, and then the Lich King walks in. That should help put things in perspective, since I'd guess a few people were thinking you ended up delivering the heart to Tirion in a safe location. It's quite the opposite situation in which Arthas's heart gets destroyed.

Kumar · 09/25/08, 11:41 AM

That is awesome, I don't have a character in Icecrown yet, but thats a neutral questline right?

So, Tirion destroys the heart after making sure there is nothing to be redeemed. Makes sense to me. I have always been in favor of no redemption for Arthas. Maybe I am biased, as there was no redemption for Kael either.

Emeraude · 09/25/08, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by Randyll

I think it's better to assume that Arthas doesn't know about the betrayal, nor about Putress. He thinks this is just another thing plotted by the Forsaken. If I put myself in Arthas' place, I'd think, "Damnit! The Forsaken are up to something again... Damn Sylvanas and her plans!". Atleast, with that premise it makes perfect sense why he'd mention her name. I really doubt Blizzard are that dumb for leaving details like that unattended.

Aye, we wouldn't even be having this conversation about "Was it Sylvanas originally?!" if those cinematic subtitles hadn't leaked, but they did, and people attached names to them with no facts, and as a result we're gonna see this debate come up for a while.

I call your Bluff. You're a paladin after all. Your obsession with redemption goes beyond the inane. You surely wouldn't destroy humanity's only chance to redeem its most wayward son. You'd sooner die!

Ummm, so am I the only one who thinks that maybe, just maybe the Lich King goated Tirion into doing this? >_> It doesn't particularly appear like Arthas/Lich King needs his human heart to survive/function. Though I guess we haven't see the effect this has on him as a whole, he's certainly dealt with some set-backs over WotLK from the DK starting area->Wrath Gate->Here. But wasn't Chris Metzen's thing at Blizzcon all about Arthas manipulating us to the North to do something...I dunno, screwed up? Like he did? I haven't seen anything of that yet.