Well it certainly hurts The Lich King when Arthas's heart gets destroyed during the quest. The practical in-game effect is that he drops to 75% health, and gets knocked back a whole lot. That's also why he screams during the event.

In the end it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be a mistake though. It might've hurt The Lich King right at that moment, but now he really doesn't have that connection to his former self any more.

It seems we will be destroying the Lich King step by step. It has been made clear before that he's vastly too powerful to tackle head-on (eeeh bye Saurfang). The forsaken plague seemed to have touched him somewhat, and now we'll be destroying his heart. How many hits before we go into the Citadel for the coup de grace?

Also, as Emeraude pointed, there's the possibility that he's leading us by the nose. In WarCraft3 and TFT the Lich King was very good at forseeing events and planning long ahead. Was this ability altered when Arthas shattered the Frozen Throne? Or is it possible that Tirion and some other related forces of the Light escape his precognition, and that destroying the heart really was an unexpected setback?

I'm really anxious to see how this will all play out.

Well, Blizzard did at some point say that Arthas is sort of leading us to him, that it is his plan, right? If that is the case, perhaps destroying the heart actually keeps Arthas in check so that Ner'zhul can completely control him without a hitch. People thought Arthas might be able to be redeemed. Perhaps this is what squashed any possibilities of redemption and is what Ner'zhul wanted all along.

Suffice it to say that if the events at Wrathgate and in the Tirion's Gambit line aren't well-linked into the future storyline (which I assume will play out in the raid zones after Ulduar, Tier 9 and maybe 10) that it will be a colossal failure. Events thus far superficially favor the former coalition and the Northrend expedition:

- Forsaken Blight proves quite effective against the Scourge
- Argent Crusade establishes a foothold in Icecrown
- Knights of the Ebon Blade conquer the Shadow Vault, destroy Fleshwerks
- Various war efforts against the Scourge in Icecrown
- Scarlet Crusade defeated by Ebon Blade
- Arthas' heart destroyed by Ashbringer
- New legion of death knights at Malykriss destroyed, Orbaz Bloodbane slain

But meanwhile it seems like no real progress has been made. The citadel hasn't even been breached, major heroes have been lost to both sides, Horde and Alliance are on the brink of open war in the midst of Icecrown, etc. etc. Darion Mograine seems more concerned with getting his revenge on Arthas and on one-upping Tirion. The entire point of Matthias Lehner's dialogs is to point out that Arthas can't be combatted on normal terms -- armies thrown against him and heroes who challenge the Lich King will eventually serve him.

In the sense of the original machinima trailer for WLK -- In the end, all must serve the One. True. King. -- Arthas has already accomplished great victories. We heroes destroyed the remaining resistance at Drak'tharon Keep and helped empower Drakuru to assault the rest of Zul'drak. The Forsaken betrayal combined with Varian Wrynn's blind zeal to break the coalition and pit the Alliance and Horde against one another when such a war was least needed. Bad things have been happening even since we got here while the Lich King seems to occasionally suffer a blow, but then returns later with no lasting ill effects.

The story is very interesting and I hope they keep it up with expansions to the Icecrown quests and into the Icecrown-related raid zones as well.

I can see several possibilities. His heart was too human, too close to Arthas and it was medling with his comtrol. So he takes it out, and buries it out of the way under his Citadel. Plausible since the heart seems related to Matthias Lehner, who knows a great deal about the Lich King. Mathias could be some echo of Arthas attached to heart that Ner'zhul was trying to get rid of, but he couldn't actually destroy his own heart.

Because of an explosion and some fortuitous destiny, you find out the heart in some deep shaft of Naz'Ranak and the Lich King is made aware of your touch. Knowing that the heart is no longer "safe" and that it could be harmful to him if it was destroyed, he sends his minions to recover it. The "display" is to lure whoever found the heart so he can kill him, and erase knowledge of this flaw.

But you and Tirion and then Darion proved a little more than he could easily handle?

There's also the more conspirational scenario, where the Lich King plants his heart for some hero to find. Therefore starting a chain of events leading to his final victory and/or reaffirming his control of Arthas by having the truest paladin destroy the heart, forcing upon whatsoever hopeful remnant of Arthas that his people will not save him.

Did it work? Was a blow by the Ashbringer more than Ner'zhul anticipated?

Matthias Lehner is an anagram lover's Arthas Menethil, for what it's worth!

So are we dealing with some kind of accidentally schismed echo or a volitional projection by the Arthas half of the Lich King, either of which Matthias's lines might suggest? Or is it perhaps a manipulative ruse of an echo, whose lines such as "I don't expect you to understand... you'll probably just end like the others" are meant as knowing, arrogant mockery?

All depends on the exact effects of destroying that heart I suppose, and how accurate the Lich King's predictions of the way those events would unfold were. I personally subscribe to the former, that it's an actual and sincerely despairing echo of Arthas himself- that this debate taking place is intentional, and the overarching theme of the Lich King manipulating us into coming to Northrend and following him in his fall are in part designed to feed just these types of uncertainties.

Exciting stuff!

In response to Kazanir, I also had similar feelings. I was really hoping that they would tie the raid dungeons more strongly together, this time around. For example, the attunement for Malygos would have been a joint attunement, requiring Sapphiron and something from the vaults of the Titans, the original creators of the Dragon Aspects. (Wouldn't it have made sense, that to vanquish a Dragon Aspect, you need to find a power that helped create it?). Additionally, I was hoping that Malygos would be more blow by blow as well, with the Kirin Tor helping, as well as some other attacks, maybe even by the Lich King too. (I'm sure he'd like to have to a "Frost King".)

And from there, we could also delve into Ulduar to find out more about three other things: How to deal with the Forsaken Blight / Scourge Plague, What kind of powers Yogg-Saron was really extending over Northrend, and how to find some sort of ancient power to help us defeat the Lich King. Obviously there would be other motives too, like learning of the history of the Vrykul, Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes.

From there, we could head into Azjol-Nerub, and another set of dungeons, to try and weaken Arthas' hold on the Icecrown. Seeing as his metal gates are constructed of Saronite, there could be some sinister themes at play with Yogg-Saron. Maybe HE was using the Lich King as a tool to help free him of his own prison? And maybe the remaining Nerubians would like to join us in vanquishing Arthas. Or worse yet, they were all mobilizing to attack us, maybe bring us down to the depths and empower Yogg-Saron. At any rate, it could be connected to the Lich King, and maybe provide an alternate way to invade and weaken him.

What I fear, is that the storyline may not continue in this manner, and we'll do what we have always done. Random invasions of random places for no overtly good reason, aside from the fact that it's there, and it COULD be a threat.

So just a few notes after watching the cinematic (and DAMN, even after watching it a few times it still sends chills down my spine. Awesome job blizzard)

1) Unlike other Horde-lovers, I don't have a problem with Saurfang the younger getting one-shot. He's not as much of a major character as Bolvar, so it's fine if he jobs to the Lich King to up his badassery. If it had been Hellscream or Saurfang the elder, then I would have been pissed . . .

2) When Bolvar is dying, he looks to the left, and the camera zooms slightly on a building (when he says "no escape - for any of us") Any significance?

3) I don't think the dragons are coming in to burn the bodies so they don't rise - they're coming in to burn the plague. Remember, Red dragonflight = life. I have a feeling they're pretty pissed to find out what the forsaken have been up to here.

4) A thought occured to me: what would the reaction be if the plague HAD finished off Arthas? Would people have been okay with the death of Bolvar, Saurfang, and their armies so long as it had finished off the main threat?

The significance is that Fordragon Hold is full of people who, from Bolvar's dying and despairing point of view, are never making it home. I don't think that was supposed to be any kind of subtle.

I'm pretty sure that the Azjol-Nerub and Icecrown raids will be tied into the lore well. I think Blizzard should try to add some max-level Nexus War content in Crystalsong/Coldarra leading to the confrontation with Malygos, but I'm not sure if they have enough time before release to do that. CoA:Black doesn't need any lore, and Naxx... well, yes, it seems like the focus of the Scourge plot was so centered on Arthas that Kel'Thuzad and company, as well as Anub'Arak, have been woefully ignored.

The main mystery at the moment, imo, is the Ulduar Raid. There's very little solid indication of what will be in there. The geography is actually pretty complete in the datafiles, but no one really knows what Loken was trying to access there.

I've always had the impression that the NE Armies and the Human Armies were still mostly separate entities. Allied certainly, but separate. If nothing else logistics would keep them fairly separate. Stands to reason the Draenei would be working more closely or be more interlinked with the NE forces.

The Horde Armies and the Forsaken/Elf armies are similar. Forsaken forces tend to be almost exclusively forsaken, same with Blood elves. While the Orc/Tauren/Trolls all bleed into each other as military forces.


You'll see some combined forces, usually some sort of auxiliary attached to the primary force. The Archers in AV, the Shamans/Druids etc... but the division is kept fairly consistently for the most part.

These are still separate nations and peoples. 'The Alliance' is more like NATO then some sort of central government.