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Old 11/02/09, 12:07 AM   #6436
Enova
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by Airraid View Post
Long story short Fordring destroys the heart (consequently killing Matthias too, I assume) in a confrontation with Arthas, thus destroying the last shard of his humanity.
If Matthias was bound to the heart all this time, wouldn't the heart's destruction release it? Not as in having a ghost child wandering the battlefield when we're storming the Citadel, but rather, weakening Arthas somehow.

Originally Posted by XI- View Post
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
Originally Posted by Kaubel View Post
You people are idiots
Guilty as charged ^

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Old 11/02/09, 12:13 AM   #6437
Jagiya
Don Flamenco
 
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Blackrock
Originally Posted by Airraid View Post
It's no secret that the story in HoR somewhat intended to give some form of a closure to the Wrath storyline for players unable/unwilling to do the 10/25 encounter
How so? If anything, it's an open-handed invitation to continue the story within Icecrown Citadel. The HoR story ends with us running for our lives, and Arthas still reigning.

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Old 11/02/09, 12:30 AM   #6438
Airraid
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Barthilas
Originally Posted by Enova View Post
If Matthias was bound to the heart all this time, wouldn't the heart's destruction release it? Not as in having a ghost child wandering the battlefield when we're storming the Citadel, but rather, weakening Arthas somehow.
That’s exactly what happens when you finish the quest and Tirion destroys the heart: Arthas instantly loses 70% hp and writhers in pain on his knees. Queue more dialog then Darion Mograine then opens a death gate for you to escape with before Arthas musters the strength to react.

Originally Posted by Jagiya View Post
How so? If anything, it's an open-handed invitation to continue the story within Icecrown Citadel. The HoR story ends with us running for our lives, and Arthas still reigning.
From the point of view that the blues have been pretty open about their philosophy that everyone will be able to encounter The Lich King. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the storyline will even come close to ending there – but I think there will be enough interaction and “closure” of sorts in there give some satisfaction the non-raid population, which is a big part of the Wrath ethos. That’s why I lean towards the theory that the Jaina and Sylvanas stories with Arthas will be closed in the 5 man while the demise Arthas himself is dealt with in the raid. Non-raiders help a faction leader get the closure they need, raiders deal with the final confrontation. It's win-win for all involved.

Last edited by Airraid : 11/02/09 at 12:36 AM.

Hunter now retired to pugs, solo farming and Yogg 0. Long live the shaman!

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Old 11/02/09, 12:42 AM   #6439
Kaejin
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Blacksen View Post
Probably a n00b question here, but why do we necessarily need another Lich King to exist in order for the world to be maintained?
One doesn't need to exist, it's just that we've been lead to believe that one will.

World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS]

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Old 11/02/09, 2:18 AM   #6440
Dancing Wu Li Master
Piston Honda
 
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Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Jagiya View Post
Has there been any further revelation on "the Secrets of Frostmourne uncovered" from the Halls of Reflection? I haven't seen much on it aside from "we figure it out and then run for our lives before Arthas slaughters everyone."
I have no proof, but my guess is that it's linked to both the sub-zone in the Citadel and the survival of Bolvar / Saurfang; we find that the sword is capable of trapping its victims in a way that means various people are still reachable in some way. When is the first point in ICC at which we know Bolvar is alve?

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Old 11/02/09, 3:15 AM   #6441
TSplodey
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Undead Priest
 
Dreadmaul
So I have to ask, why does everyone have a laugh at Kael'thas returning after we defeat him? If anyone was paying attention when they killed him, we actually take one of the orbs floating around his shoulders, which he is lacking in his MGT model last time I checked. He's on life support or reanimated by fel energies, but it's not like we took his head or anything.

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Old 11/02/09, 4:13 AM   #6442
Nakari
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Destromath (EU)
Originally Posted by TSplodey View Post
So I have to ask, why does everyone have a laugh at Kael'thas returning after we defeat him? If anyone was paying attention when they killed him, we actually take one of the orbs floating around his shoulders, which he is lacking in his MGT model last time I checked. He's on life support or reanimated by fel energies, but it's not like we took his head or anything.
Uhh.. we didn't? I guess fetching the Head of Kael'thas for the Shattered Sun Offensive was all in my imagination then!

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Old 11/02/09, 4:27 AM   #6443
TSplodey
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Dreadmaul
No people are making jokes about him coming back from the dead. When have we seen him alive since the end of MGT?

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Old 11/02/09, 5:25 AM   #6444
Bierzkrieg
King Hippo
 
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Burning Steppes (EU)
Kael'thas-related jokes derive from the fact that his return in Magister's Terrace was mostly unexpected and sometimes seen as a show poor imagination by Blizzard. To top it all, he had the "Tempest Keep was merely a setback" line, which was pretty much gold an is ever since used whenever Blizzard decides to bring back characters (enemies, mostly) who were presumed dead. Like Anub'arak - although Anub'arak's return in a raid instead of a dungeon, unlike Kael'thas', was something most of the WC3: Frozen Throne players wanted very much.

I can't really see Illidan returning. Like someone said above, we have a bunch of characters with more than enough motives to want the Lich King dead, there's little need to bring back one whose image is that of a madman. Also, in his mind, he's defeated Arthas...

Has it been confirmed that the Frostmourne sub-zone is from the Icecrown raid? It could the our way of uncovering Frostmourne's secrets. The idea by Li Master that we'd find Frostmourne's victims trapped inside the sword seems very interesting. Plus, just running from Arthas is scarce for the final encounter of such an important dungeon.

Edit: Just so it's clear, I liked Kael'thas' fall and return a lot. Not only was it a demonstration of what happens when you start using fel magic for fuel, the crystal-in-chest detail was, to put it simply, awesome.

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Old 11/02/09, 6:40 AM   #6445
Kirion
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Deathwing (EU)
Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg View Post
Kael'thas-related jokes derive from the fact that his return in Magister's Terrace was mostly unexpected and sometimes seen as a show poor imagination by Blizzard. To top it all, he had the "Tempest Keep was merely a setback" line, which was pretty much gold an is ever since used whenever Blizzard decides to bring back characters (enemies, mostly) who were presumed dead.
Except, when you turn in Verdant sphere from Tempest keep, you are told by A'dal, that Kael is alive. Anub'arak, on the other hand, leave his broken husk, yet magically appears in ToC.

42.

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Old 11/02/09, 6:51 AM   #6446
Bierzkrieg
King Hippo
 
Orc Warrior
 
Burning Steppes (EU)
Had forgotten about the hint after we killed him at Tempest Keep. Truth be told, then, most of the fuss was because of Blizzard turning him into an evil character (which was way before MGT - there was clearly something wrong right from the start of TBC). Still, Kael became a staple of "villain comebacks" for WoW, and his "merely a setback" the signature for all other comebacks.

Most serious criticism was really about the amount of heroes that turned evil in Warcraft.

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Old 11/02/09, 6:52 AM   #6447
Illyra
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Nakari View Post
Uhh.. we didn't? I guess fetching the Head of Kael'thas for the Shattered Sun Offensive was all in my imagination then!
Hardly. You might have noticed that so far there hasn't been any sign of Kael reappearing subsequent to the forcible removal of his head in Magisters' Terrace. Kael jokes rely on his "Tempest Keep was merely a setback" moment in that particular instance. As TSplodey wrote, that return should not have been a surprise to anyone who was present when the Verdant Sphere quest item from Tempest Keep was handed in, at which point it was explicitly stated that Kael'thas was alive, and he even had a muahaha insane villainy moment pronouncing his allegiance to Kil'jaeden from the distance.
Picking three main reasons for the popularity of the "merely a setback" meme, even though other bosses have made returns that might be considered less probable, I would go for these:
-the farcical nature of Kael'thas' speech and appearance in Magisters' Terrace
-the somewhat camp character of Kael'thas in general
-chance are that more people have encountered the MgT Kael than the event in Shattrath, and for the latter group it would usually have been a relatively distant memory when the Sunwell patch was released.

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Old 11/02/09, 8:26 AM   #6448
Kumar
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Blood Elf Rogue
 
Exodar
An Argument could be made for the permanent death of the Scourge, because Cataclysm wise, Blizzard can remove the scourge from landscape of Azeroth (save Northrend), so that in a chronological order, the world post Cataclysm will be scourge free.

Anyways, my only real question here was "why do we need another Lich King?" The most obvious answer is "someone needs to command all the scourge," but that doesn't necessarily mean we need a new Lich King (Kel'Thuzud controls lots of scourge).
The last time Lich King lost control over his army, the Forsaken faction was born, being freed from his control and that was thanks to having a powerful Banshee lead them. The Scourge lack a will of their own, they follow their orders and are loyal to their masters.

The elimination of Lich King would mean there is nobody left to control them. So, if you go in chronological order (which will not be the expansion order come Cataclysm), an Azeroth infested with the Scoruge carrying out Lich King's commands would not make much sense.

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Old 11/02/09, 9:15 AM   #6449
Shamsterdam
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Sargeras
Has anyone thought about the return of Mal'Ganis as the "new Lich King" / "He who weakens Arthas so that we can defeat him"?

From the Scarlet Onslaught Harbor quest line:
* "Enough! I waste my time. I must gather my strength on the homeworld."
* "You'll never defeat the Lich King without my forces! I'll have my revenge on him, and you!"
It would be interesting seeing the demon that had a hand in creating him before being betrayed "return the favor".

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Old 11/02/09, 10:21 AM   #6450
Airraid
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Barthilas
Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg View Post
Kael'thas-related jokes derive from the fact that his return in Magister's Terrace was mostly unexpected and sometimes seen as a show poor imagination by Blizzard.
That's something I've always disagreed with, ever since Kael 25 was able to be killed (long before patch 2.1) a Shattrah-wide script started after handing in the quest item that showed he was alive. He didn't return until patch 2.4, and even when he did it fit in perfectky with Blizzard's original script:

<Silence descends upon Shattrath>
<A'dal's thoughts invade your mind>
<Kael'thas Sunstrider has been defeated by (player) and his allies>
<The time to strike at the remaining blood elves in Tempest Keep is now. Take heart and let A'dal's song of battle empower you!>
Kael'Thas Sunstrider Yells: Your monkeys failed to finish the job Naaru. Beaten, but alive... The same mistake was not made when we took command of your vessel.
Kael'Thas Sunstrider Yells: All for what? Trinkets? You are too late. The preparations have already begun. Soon the master will make his return.
Kael'Thas Sunstrider Yells: And there is nothing you or that fool, Illidan, can do to stop me! You have both served me in your own right - unwittingly. Lay down your arms and succumb to the might of Kil'jaeden!

Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg View Post
Has it been confirmed that the Frostmourne sub-zone is from the Icecrown raid? It could the our way of uncovering Frostmourne's secrets.
Not confirmed per-se, but a room named Frostmourne has indeed been datamined: YouTube - [spoiler] Icecrown Citadel - Frostmourne Area

Hunter now retired to pugs, solo farming and Yogg 0. Long live the shaman!

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