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Old 02/02/10, 12:57 AM   #7396
Airraid
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Barthilas
I noticed something a little odd when watching the cinematic:

1) Highlord Fordragon, AKA Lavaman, upon the receipt of his new burden:



2) The ice begins to surround him, face still clearly visible:



3) Almost covered by ice:



4) Now completely encased in ice, a new face appears in the ice. Or, perhaps, an old one?


Hunter now retired to pugs, solo farming and Yogg 0. Long live the shaman!

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Old 02/02/10, 1:02 AM   #7397
Leviathon
Great Tiger
 
Worgen Druid
 
Blade's Edge
Originally Posted by Cranberry View Post
The existance of Hellscream's Warsong - Spells - Sigrie suggests that Garrosh will see some involvement somewhere. Perhaps Saurfang/Muradin's involvement stops after Deathbringer, and Garrosh/Varian are involved for the LK himself.

This also appears to be the ICC self-nerf effect - there are six identical spells, one for each of 5/10/15/20/25/30% health/damage/healing.
I'd hope Tirion isn't just the only one that shows up and still wonder how Garrosh's involvement in the fight will 'change our views of him' if he is there. I guess there could be dialogue after the cinematic though where he and Varian are there and he actually respects Bolvar and causes Varian to see him in better light.

Last edited by Leviathon : 02/02/10 at 1:09 AM.

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Old 02/02/10, 1:26 AM   #7398
Hoenir
Glass Joe
 
Troll Hunter
 
Thaurissan
After Watching the clip I must ask, The Lich King, Lord of Frost, along with the burning fire of the Life bending dragons gets incased in ice, and yet it does not melt.

Edit: Realized someone just said what I had said for my second statement.

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Old 02/02/10, 1:42 AM   #7399
Leviathon
Great Tiger
 
Worgen Druid
 
Blade's Edge
Originally Posted by Hoenir View Post
After Watching the clip I must ask, The Lich King, Lord of Frost, along with the burning fire of the Life bending dragons gets incased in ice, and yet it does not melt.

Edit: Realized someone just said what I had said for my second statement.
It's super magic ice. But I'd imagine the ice could be composed of the same ice of the Frozen Throne which would be pretty resilient.

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Old 02/02/10, 2:24 AM   #7400
Liebestod
King Hippo
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Elune
I really still don't understand this "there must always be a Lich King" stuff. Okay, so... Bolvar becomes the Lich King and seals himself away, but... wouldn't the Scourge still be pretty much as big a threat as before? Does beating Arthas just mean that now the Lick King can't walk around Apocalypsing stuff anymore?

Or is it supposed to be implicit that now the Scourge will just kinda sit around and do nothing until their magic wears off? Maybe this will be explained better later..

I also have to echo Charmin's point: It seems like much of the story was ad hoc. I still remember some dev being quoted as saying that there was an epic 3-act storyline for WotLK, with the first ending at the Wrath Gate... and I bought that at the time, but pretty much everything after that felt pretty ad hoc. It's definitely better than TBC overall, but when you consider how brilliantly the WotLK plots were progressing at release... I just feel like Blizzard dropped the ball in the content patches somewhat. I mean, remember all the "Horde and Alliance must unite to defeat Arthas" foreshadowing? Oh well. But maybe my expectations are too high.

So here's a list of unresolved WotLK plot issues:

a) The mysterious disappearance of Tyr.. and no, don't say "Vezax"
b) Azjol-Nerub as an actual zone: Maybe someday.
c) Mal'Ganis. That's all.

Well, I'm sure there are more but I'm tired.

Last edited by Liebestod : 02/02/10 at 2:34 AM.

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Old 02/02/10, 2:29 AM   #7401
Leviathon
Great Tiger
 
Worgen Druid
 
Blade's Edge
Originally Posted by Liebestod View Post
I really still don't understand this "there must always be a Lich King" stuff. Okay, so... Bolvar becomes the Lich King and seals himself away, but... wouldn't the Scourge still be pretty much as big a threat as before? Does beating Arthas just mean that now the Lick King can't walk around Apocalypsing stuff anymore?

Or is it supposed to be implicit that now the Scourge will just kinda sit around and do nothing until their magic wears off? Maybe this will be explained better later..
I really think it's as simple as another force will control the Scourge if someone isn't there to try to hold it back regardless if you wanna accept that there was another force or not. :p

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Old 02/02/10, 2:41 AM   #7402
Liebestod
King Hippo
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Elune
I just have trouble believing that the Lick King(s) are so incompetent (or poorly-focused) that the Scourge would have been more successful without their being unified.

I mean, imagine if it worked like that with the Zerg in Starcraft:

Tassadar: Executor, the Overmind has been weakened, but I fear we have sustained severe damage ourselves. I will steer the Gantrithor into a collision course with the Overmind. If I can channel enough of the Dark Templars' energy through the hull of the Gantrithor, I should be able to bring swift death to the accursed abomination. Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.

Raynor: Wait... what?

Aldaris: That's a fucking terrible idea.

*Tassadar suicides*

Fenix: ... oh my god he just ran in.

Raynor: Stick to the plan, chums.

Aldaris: Who's soulstoned? We do have a soulstone up, don't we?

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Old 02/02/10, 3:04 AM   #7403
Dancing Wu Li Master
Piston Honda
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Liebestod View Post
I just have trouble believing that the Lick King(s) are so incompetent (or poorly-focused) that the Scourge would have been more successful without their being unified.
It's not that they'd be more successful, it's that they'd be more destructive in the short term. Bolvar can (in theory) contain the Scourge and prevent that from happening.

"No Lich King" is certainly preferable to having Arthas in the position, but it still results in more death and destruction than having Bolvar wearing the crown.

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Old 02/02/10, 5:32 AM   #7404
dustdog
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Arthas
A Lich King always being around is kind of a blah story, I rather suspect that in whatever expansion turns its attention back to the Lich King; there will be...something to break the cycle; they're probably well aware of not being able to get away with using this storyline repeatedly. Additionally this would beg the question of does the new Lich King eventually move elsewhere, to new zones etc, especially since he would presumably have powers of flame(in addition to frost or perhaps not).

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Old 02/02/10, 5:37 AM   #7405
Mearwen
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Kael'thas (EU)
Originally Posted by Liebestod View Post
I really still don't understand this "there must always be a Lich King" stuff. Okay, so... Bolvar becomes the Lich King and seals himself away, but... wouldn't the Scourge still be pretty much as big a threat as before? Does beating Arthas just mean that now the Lick King can't walk around Apocalypsing stuff anymore?
.

"There must always be a Lich King" for 2 reasons:
- Firstly, The scourge is not wiped with arthas death. There are still lot of scourge minions on Azeroth/northrend which can be very dangerous and must be "controlled" during the time to wipe them.
- Secondly, Arthas is an human even as a the Lich King. So we can assume that the military principe/paradigm are still on his head. The scourge is an army for him. And maybe the scourge used as an army is easier to defeat ( With pitched battle, with big troup concentration, .. ) than an scourge without military discipline (Which made progress much like a plague with small troup scattered everywhere).

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Old 02/02/10, 5:52 AM   #7406
Vaccine
Mr. Sandman
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
It still makes no sense. I half hope its all been an elaborate ploy by Ner'zhul if only because it would simply mean the characters were gullible and not that the plot was stupid. Either way I hope we see Argent/Ebon death squads around Azeroth slaying scourge to continue to thin their numbers towards eventual extinction.

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Old 02/02/10, 5:57 AM   #7407
LiteSabre
Chef
 
Ramsay
Orc Rogue
 
No WoW Account
What I really don't get is how it's making Bolvar's sacrifice out to be this eternal, long-suffering sort of thing with the emotional exchange between him and Tirion. If Bolvar-King really does command all the scourge, he can make them turn on themselves or, better yet, go inert. It's not as though the undead actually contribute to or sustain any sort of ecosystem which would come crashing down without them.

As for the sentient and still malevolent undead/humans/vrykul who would object or rebel, well... isn't that basically what all those OTHER undead are there fore? Bolvar could have the mindless and therefore controllable ghouls, aboms, frost wyrms etc. turn on the dangerous factors, and once everything was in order (which, given the immense powers the Lich King is reputed to hold over the undead, would not take very long) he could call up Tirion or hell, even something like A'dal to grant him his rest.

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Old 02/02/10, 6:09 AM   #7408
Hoenir
Glass Joe
 
Troll Hunter
 
Thaurissan
Originally Posted by LiteSabre View Post
It's not as though the undead actually contribute to or sustain any sort of ecosystem which would come crashing down without them.

It's the Circle of life (Que Lion King song), the ultimate source of death must exist or else the ultimate source of life would surely die.

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Old 02/02/10, 6:27 AM   #7409
Camaris
Piston Honda
 
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Human Paladin
 
Kul Tiras (EU)
Originally Posted by LiteSabre View Post
As for the sentient and still malevolent undead/humans/vrykul who would object or rebel, well... isn't that basically what all those OTHER undead are there fore? Bolvar could have the mindless and therefore controllable ghouls, aboms, frost wyrms etc. turn on the dangerous factors, and once everything was in order (which, given the immense powers the Lich King is reputed to hold over the undead, would not take very long) he could call up Tirion or hell, even something like A'dal to grant him his rest.
Still, that amounts to genocide. Especially the Vrykul are not portrayed as being unredeemable.

But it does raise another interesting point: what does it actually mean to have another Lich King? Presumably the mindless undead will be (somehow?) less of a threat, but how about the more intelligent factions that survive? The remaining Death Knights could join the Ebon Blade or form similar 'mercenary bands'. The Vrykul could learn to return to some kind of pre-Ymiron lifestyle, But the Cult of the Damned will possibly go underground, or focus their attention on something else (the Burning Legion? the Forsaken?). Remaining liches, if there are any, could probably keep up their own small Scourges for a while/

But honestly, I can only see this end in a bad way, eventually. Some unfortunate soul (probably a dwarf) is bound to someday re-awaken him, and introduce a new fire-based undead faction.

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Old 02/02/10, 6:38 AM   #7410
LiteSabre
Chef
 
Ramsay
Orc Rogue
 
No WoW Account
That still doesn't answer why he doesn't turn his forces against the card-carrying omnicidal maniacs in his employ. Or, for that matter, why he doesn't just render all the undead he CAN reach inert, leaving the people of Azeroth less to worry about.

Unless it's sort of like "Bolvar is locked in eternal mental combat with the evil of the Frozen Throne, and therefore can only barely maintain a grip on the scourge while blah blah blah." But even then, if he can't actively control them, aren't the undead effectively just kinda sitting there, maybe reduced to reacting to threats only? Ripe for a prot pally running in and rounding them up to aoe, as it were?

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