World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 53

Kazanir · 01/03/09, 1:43 PM

The intro text for the battleground does say it's on an island south of the Dragonblight, yes.

Emeraude · 01/03/09, 1:44 PM

Originally Posted by Emily

We've seen Thor and Loki, is there any sign of a parallel figure to Odin around yet? Or could he be lurking around backstage?

There's a Titan that was inspired by Odin, Aman'Thul. You meet an image of him in Menethil Harbor Alliance side early on in the game. But it doesn't fit because Aman'Thul is a ruling member of the Pantheon.

chrisb3 · 01/03/09, 1:58 PM

Eye of the Storm is one of the atal'mal cystals. Explained in a book similar to how obsidian sanctum is.

Zogeth · 01/03/09, 2:00 PM

The Sargeras theory is really intriguing, and could make sense. But didn't Aegwynn take the remains of Sargeras/avatar of Sargeras to the Broken Isles and therefore no evidence of him would be found in Northrend. Hmm, unless it can be explained by 'residual energy' or something like that.

When Loken says "father", he could well mean Sargeras. AFAIK they are both Vanir titans, and i think (remember reading it somewhere, although it could well be someone else's speculation) that Loken was designated Sargeras' role, once he betrayed the pantheon.

Wowwiki states that Loken was names the "supreme protector of Azeroth" by the pantheon.
Wowwiki states that Sargeras was once the "defender of their worlds" anda member fo the pantheon.

They sound like quite similar roles and could be a possible connection.

ZulazeeluIcecrown · 01/03/09, 2:16 PM

Yeah, putting together the quotes mentioned earlier, it's really starting to look (to me) like Loken is working for the Burning Legion. It seems that the Legion's new plan is "free the Old Gods, and they'll destroy the Pantheon, and Chaos wins." It fits completely, and ties the story back into existing WoW events. Therefore, I like it. It ties into some things in Wrath, too, like the events of the Battle for Undercity and Mal'ganis leading the Scarlet Onslaught.

"Father" or Loken's master doesn't have to be Sargeras precisely, could be Kil'jaeden yet again, or some other powerful agent of the Legion we haven't met yet. Though the "father" terminology does suggest Sargeras I would think.

Emeraude · 01/03/09, 2:25 PM

Uh uh, the Legion and the Old Gods are not friends, in fact the Old Gods were attempting to free themselves during the War of the Ancients using Deathwing. I can't remember the exact details, but had the Night Elves succeeded in opening the portal they also would have freed the Old Gods, and the Gods felt very confident that they could even take down Sargeras, who we all know coming through into our world at full strength would have been a force to be reckoned with.

Hate Monkey · 01/03/09, 3:14 PM

Don't forget that on a scale of power, a Titan and an Old God are nearly equal, it's only that when the Titans visisted Azeroth, they out numbered the Old Gods. Only reason they were able to be imprisoned.

So in contrast to Loken, an Old God is way way way stronger, as is any residual energy left over by Sargeras. Though Kil'Jaeden making another cameo in WotLK makes perfect sense since he wants the Lich King dead.

Anedris · 01/03/09, 3:16 PM

The Legion may be gambling that, however hostile to them and powerful the Old Gods may be, they will be sufficiently weakened by a cataclysmic war with the Pantheon that the Legion will then be able to take down whatever survives.

Kumar · 01/03/09, 6:49 PM

So would the defeat of Arthas be helpful to the Legion in any way? We know they want him dead, but is it only due to the betrayal in ages past or is there something else there?

The Lich King in the end was created by the Legion, could Ner'zhul be still useful to them in some form if we defeat the Lich King?

Emeraude · 01/03/09, 7:04 PM

Originally Posted by Kumar

So would the defeat of Arthas be helpful to the Legion in any way? We know they want him dead, but is it only due to the betrayal in ages past or is there something else there?

The Lich King in the end was created by the Legion, could Ner'zhul be still useful to them in some form if we defeat the Lich King?

The Lich King is the Agent Smith of the WoW universe, a power left unchecked that's grown out of control of it's creators and absorbing everything in sight, except instead of siding with the demons(Mal'ganis) we're going about it on our own to take him down.

I mean if you make something to take down your enemies and then it succeeds but it's powerful enough to take you down, all you've done is traded 1 enemy for another more powerful enemy.

Arubish · 01/03/09, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by Zogeth

Wowwiki states that Loken was names the "supreme protector of Azeroth" by the pantheon.
Wowwiki states that Sargeras was once the "defender of their worlds" anda member fo the pantheon.

After Sargeras left the Pantheon he was replaced by Aggramar as their Champion.

The Sargeras-Loken theory does indeed sound nice, and something I personally would like to see.
I think Loken is atleast partially under control of Yogg-Saron though, if I remember correct, the place where Loken sits in Storm Peaks before Thorim gets captured is full of tentacles like the ones of C'Thun

Tyrian · 01/03/09, 7:28 PM

I think its believable that the legion is just super ticked-off that Azeroth has resisted two invasions. Isn't there a quote floating around stating no other world has resisted a Burning Legion invasion? They could likely just want to see it destroyed out of pride, by Old Gods or anything else - not caring whether the destruction is brought about by friend or foe.

Hate Monkey · 01/03/09, 7:46 PM

Tyrian: It's three invasions now.

Originally Posted by WoWWiki

Finally, Archimonde was summoned in Dalaran, and he immediately gave control of the Scourge to Tichondrius and the Dreadlords. But the Lich King was not done yet. Archimonde may have removed Ner'zhul's control over the undead, but in his eagerness for vengeance against the night elves, he forgot to return the Frozen Throne to Kil'jaeden. Thus, the Lich King remained at large.

And further down on that page, it mentions that Illidan's killing of Tichondrius, which lead to the ultimate demise of Archimonde, was all planned out by Ner'Zhul.

So we got the benefactor behind Ner'Zhuls power, Kil'Jaeden, furious of losing control over him, and then the merging of Arthas' Death Knight body, basically Frostmourne (immense power) with what is now the Lich King (Ner'Zhuls immense power), both which rival Kil'Jaedens power, now combined.

All of this is Ner'Zhul manipulating his demon commanders and subordinates to do as he wants, causing massive loses for the Burning Legion, which leads to the fall of almost all top ranking ones, crippling Kil'Jaedens control over Azeroth.

Far off speculation here:

Since the Titans molded the universe, and planets to a non-chaotic state, and the Burning Legion wants to return it to its chaotic state, and the Old Gods have a huge grudge against all the Titans did on Azeroth: Have the Old Gods in some way been a manipulating force in the Burning Legion on Azeroth? Also, since Ner'Zhuls prison was sent from the Twisting Nether, a once massive block of ice, shotting onto Azeroth with a massive explosion, could that have gained attention from Yogg-Saron?

Starfire · 01/03/09, 7:51 PM

Err... Don't think the Titan's "molded" the universe per se, it is my understanding they traveled around the universe molding and remodeling things as they see fit. But there are certainly other powers out there: Old Gods (which the Titans did not create, as far as we know), Elune (the only "true" god) and perhaps the Naaru.

There also does not seem to be much tying the Titans to the Ethereals at the present.

(This suddenly reminds me a lot of Stargate...)

Hate Monkey · 01/03/09, 8:33 PM

So in my laziness today, I decided to afk in Wyrmrest Temple, and it just dawned on me, what the hell is the significance of the orb on the very top level? And what is with the ceiling paintings on the 2nd Floor? Also, the gap between the 2nd floor and the top is massive, is there anything of importance hidden there?

I just can't for the life of me find any quests mentioning anything about the orb.

Uljin · 01/03/09, 9:55 PM

Originally Posted by Randyll

releasing Yogg-Saron so that the Pantheon comes for Azeroth's (and thereby Loken's) rescue.

I think we can all be pretty sure that the Pantheon are well on their way to Azeroth. Not only is it stated that Azeroth is scheduled for a revisit by them, the scripted scene at the end of the Halls of Lightning when you kill Loken removes all doubt that they know something very wrong is going on.
I very much expect to see the Pantheon as adversaries at some point in the future as they try to clean up Azeroth and we try to stop them.

Calamar · 01/04/09, 12:25 AM

"My master has shown me the future, and you have no place in it. Azeroth will be reborn in darkness. Yogg-Saron shall be released! The Pantheon shall fall!"

I don't think that leaves any question as to who Loken's master is. :P

Starfire · 01/04/09, 12:53 AM

Uh... unless Loken's master was commanding him to release Yogg-Saron. So there is doubt there.

Emeraude · 01/04/09, 1:54 AM

Originally Posted by Uljin

I think we can all be pretty sure that the Pantheon are well on their way to Azeroth. Not only is it stated that Azeroth is scheduled for a revisit by them, the scripted scene at the end of the Halls of Lightning when you kill Loken removes all doubt that they know something very wrong is going on.
I very much expect to see the Pantheon as adversaries at some point in the future as they try to clean up Azeroth and we try to stop them.

I'd like to think that if the Pantheon came to Azeroth there would be a civil war between them about what to do with us.

Eonar the Lifebinder in particular strikes me as the Alexstrasza type that values all life and would not want to hurt those she breathed life into. Alexstrasza & Korialstrasz are 2 of my favorite characters in WoW lore for this alone.

Tyrian · 01/04/09, 2:15 AM

I very much expect to see the Pantheon as adversaries at some point in the future as they try to clean up Azeroth and we try to stop them.

I'd like to think that if the Pantheon came to Azeroth there would be a civil war between them about what to do with us.

I'm really hoping both of those chains of thought come true. It's also about damn time we see a real Titan in the game. A potential opportunity is a titan Harbinger being sent to Azeroth (ahead of the Pantheon, also en route) to aid us in fighting Yogg-Saron. The opportunity to really explore the Titan lore of Azeroth this expansion (Are they revisiting Azeroth to help us, or erase us?), is equally as exciting as learning about the Lich King for many. It'd be a shame to just not develop it further.

Kumar · 01/04/09, 2:48 AM

Also the fact that we have defeated a BL invasion 3 times and defeated Sargreas in some sense could easily produce conflicting opinions amogst the titans on what to do with Azeroth.

the scripted scene at the end of the Halls of Lightning when you kill Loken removes all doubt that they know something very wrong is going on.

I can't find this anywhere online, what does the scene show?

Zogeth · 01/04/09, 7:37 AM

I think he means once Loken dies, the floor lights up and then lights up the globe? Maybe its a message or beaocn or something.

Uljin · 01/04/09, 9:51 AM

Originally Posted by Zogeth

I think he means once Loken dies, the floor lights up and then lights up the globe? Maybe its a message or beaocn or something.

Quite right, also the globe fires a beam straight up into the sky, most definitely a beacon that's triggered by Loken's death, I believe his dying words are something along the lines of "well, you're all screwed now, my ex-boss is coming"

Tyrian · 01/04/09, 10:09 AM

It would be quite ironic if us killing Loken actually lit the beacon which prompts the Titans to finally return to azeroth. Especially since we assume we are removing one source of evil (Loken), but in the process are potentially beckoning a far greater power (The Titans) to Azeroth, whom might not like us either.

Mortals are pretty much screwed in Azeroth these days no matter what they do. Either the legion will invade again, or the old gods will return, or Azshara/Deathwing will decide we should all die, or the Titans will come back and also decide everything should be wiped clean. Theres not much hope left for a rosy mortals future in the cosmic power play. Characters like Alexstrasza/Elune seem to be the only real source of compassion for us to turn to now. But the dire situation we're in obviously makes for more interesting stories Blizzard can create. The world would be a pretty boring place if everyone was happy and got along well.

Neto- · 01/04/09, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Uljin

Quite right, also the globe fires a beam straight up into the sky, most definitely a beacon that's triggered by Loken's death, I believe his dying words are something along the lines of "well, you're all screwed now, my ex-boss is coming"

To be more exact, it is "My death... heralds the end of this world".

Which definitely opens up some interesting plot for the future.