World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 54

Randyll · 10/13/08, 4:40 AM

Originally Posted by Nethris

Azjol-Nerub is probably large enough to make up several zones, minimum, and an underground expansion would leave room to include Uldum and other Titan lore locations as well as possibly wrapping up the question of the old gods into a reasonably cohesive expansion - but it's still a pretty large stretch when they have better material that hasn't been covered much recently. We know Blizz reads most of the WoW forums out there, so they have to know what the prominent guesses here have been... but are probably loving the fact that it's impossible to tell if they just meant that the majority of the WoW population won't be expecting it at this point, or if truly they haven't seen it seriously considered by anyone yet.

A Maelstrom/South Seas expansion, an Emerald Dream expansion, a Twisting Nether expansion, or just about anything other than another world in the sense of Azeroth or Draenor would fit the "not continents" hint. Though they'd really have to invent a LOT of details to make a full expansion out of the Emerald Dream, they pretty much did that for Northrend though. The Draenei and Naaru could use some more lore, but just about anything involving the Burning Legion would give an excuse for that, and just about anything could and probably would involve the Burning Legion in some way.

True enough. Although, Blizzard tends to surprise people more often than not, it could be something new. It's not impossible for them to invent something that's not even in the lore yet and retcon it sufficiently for it to be consistent. Even if that'd get some people miffed, if not upset, originality is something that I value more than consistency when it comes to fantasy universes.

I mean, they could raise a continent from the sea, populate it with a race we haven't seen before, formulate a backstory so that it doesn't conflict with existing lore and voila, you've got a theme for an expansion. Granted, that's exaggeration, but the point is that for it to be something entirely new it's the direction they should take if they'd put it on Azeroth. Most of Azeroth is already known anyway in lore or otherwise. Or they could use the portal theme, open a gateway to a brand new world and have the players launch a crusade against the X Race.

But I digress. I guess you're right, with it being something unexpected Blizzard means the Average Joe who perceives lore as something confusing that doesn't really have any relevance to what he's experiencing in a game. As such, it could be any of the so-far speculated themes that have been discussed here. One would hope they'd do something brand new.

Emeraude · 10/13/08, 4:44 AM

Well if Blizzard wanted to introduce new hero classes, you'd want to consider what they did with Death Knights as a gateway introduction to said epic class.

1) Probably the most important aspect of a new class is the lore!

Does the class have a strong lore background, is it accessible to both factions? What's available?

Demon Hunters have been trained as both Night and Blood Elves.
Would somebody like Maiev possible start retraining Wardens for both factions?
Is the Blademaster a Horde only Hero class?
Etc etc

2) Are the classes definitive enough to stand on their own? Obviously a Blademaster for instance would be difficult to put in the game, because you already have their abilities or an idea of the class in the form of Warriors. Would a Warden have enough definitive abilities to stand on it's own? Same with the Demon Hunter, did Rogues steal a lot of that flair? Is the Archmage or Archdruid drastically different from a Mage or Druid?

3) Class demand, obviously Blizzard had a high demand for tanks in BC, and they made it a point to make DKs tanks. Do we need more ranged classes? More melee? More casters? More healers? etc.

4) Would you have to introduce a brand new race or two for the respective class(s)?

Randyll · 10/13/08, 4:51 AM

Originally Posted by Morlark

I'm not sure why you'd say a content patch would make more sense. Content patches usually only add at most a 5-man dungeon, a raid instance, and a quest zone, or some permuation thereof. Azjol-Nerub is vastly larger than that. There's easily enough content there for an entire expansion. In fact, given that the news from the beta suggests that the A-N areas don't nearly do the name justice, who's to say that Blizzard didn't deliberately cut back the A-N areas in WotLK so that they could devote an entire expansion to it? It would certainly fit the "not a continent" hint. Of course the Emerald Dream or the Maelstrom would also fit that hint, but they don't really go with "not what you're expecting", since they've both been prime candidates for expansion territory probably since before WoW was even released.

Even if A-N stretches for the most of the continent, it'd feel a bit dumb to have the "basement of Northrend" to be as the central theme of a whole expansion. Thus a content patch or something akin to it feels more appropriate. Yet I wouldn't go as far as ruling it out completely, I'm just being doubtful. Moreover, the place itself is too tied with Northrend lore for it not to be a part of this expansion.

As far as content patches come and go, it's impossible to know what Blizzard can do with all the new tech they're coming up with game-wise. It's not impossible to patch in a whole zone. Like Quel'danas, but bigger. That's what I meant by content patch anyway. There are no size limits anyway.

Schniepel · 10/13/08, 5:01 AM

Originally Posted by Starfire

Why are Pandaren's otherworldly? I mean we do have Taurens and now Tuskarr.

They are in that they are not native to Azeroth like Draenei.

Randyll · 10/13/08, 5:15 AM

Originally Posted by Schniepel

They are in that they are not native to Azeroth like Draenei.

Uh. I'm sure that Pandaren are more than native to Azeroth. Even more so than Orcs. Pandaren have been around for ages, except that they're a bit more reclusive than your average Tauren.

I guess the assertion of Pandaren being otherworldly was based the presumption of it being the same thing than weird. For me, humanoid pandas are as otherworldy as tauren or tuskarr, and as such they're definitely "non-otherworldly".

james · 10/13/08, 5:47 AM

What makes a Hero class a Hero class seems to be the way they're introduced into the game. They could make an archdruid class that starts at lvl 55 with identical abilities/talents to a druid, share same armor, etc. i.e. in all but name, it would be a druid.

But they could give it a cool starting area in the Emerald Dream and some incredible starting quests that are part of an epic storyline and... I think everyone would be happy.

Schniepel · 10/13/08, 6:27 AM

Originally Posted by Randyll

Uh. I'm sure that Pandaren are more than native to Azeroth. Even more so than Orcs. Pandaren have been around for ages, except that they're a bit more reclusive than your average Tauren.

I guess the assertion of Pandaren being otherworldly was based the presumption of it being the same thing than weird. For me, humanoid pandas are as otherworldy as tauren or tuskarr, and as such they're definitely "non-otherworldly".

Sorry my bad, in my memory Padaren had a different homeworld, but it seems 'Pandaria' is imply an island on Azeroth. So yes they are not otherwordly. I also don't think their 'weird', because humanoids with animal features are already very abundant the WoW (besides Tauren the Gnolls, Quillboars, Worgen and Centaur come to mind).

Zaniel · 10/13/08, 9:49 AM

Originally Posted by james

What makes a Hero class a Hero class seems to be the way they're introduced into the game. They could make an archdruid class that starts at lvl 55 with identical abilities/talents to a druid, share same armor, etc. i.e. in all but name, it would be a druid.

But they could give it a cool starting area in the Emerald Dream and some incredible starting quests that are part of an epic storyline and... I think everyone would be happy.

While I agree in part with your first statement, I think the second is pretty faulty. The precedent for Hero classes is that they are introduced at higher levels (which I find both convenient and cool). However, saying that Blizz would introduce a new Hero class just to make it a carbon copy of a pre-existing class is crazy. Blizz puts too much pride and effort into every major addition to the game, and with the DK they've shown that they want Hero classes to be major additions.

I think Demon Hunters could still work as hero classes, and you could have them be trained initially with Illidan or wherever. Similarly, Archdruids would lend themselves easily to the Emerald Dream, and Blade Masters to ... well, any arena-type location. However, to think that such Hero classes would be mere copies of other classes, and that people (Blizz especially) would be content with that is short sighted.

ZulazeeluIcecrown · 10/13/08, 9:54 AM

Originally Posted by Schniepel

Sorry my bad, in my memory Padaren had a different homeworld, but it seems 'Pandaria' is imply an island on Azeroth. So yes they are not otherwordly. I also don't think their 'weird', because humanoids with animal features are already very abundant the WoW (besides Tauren the Gnolls, Quillboars, Worgen and Centaur come to mind).

I had an interesting thought recently. Sorry that this is not directly tied to Wrath lore (though in a way it is)... the fact that the origin of humans and gnomes is revealed as Titan-based in Wrath got me thinking about the origin of the other Azeroth-"native" races, specifically the aforementioned furries Tauren, Quillboar, Gnolls, etc. We "know" that Night Elves were the result of "radiation" from the Well of Eternity causing mutations in Trolls. The interesting thing about these mutations is they caused the Trolls to look more like Humans... and more like the Titan statues (Archaedeus et al).

What if this was an intentional effect of the Titan-created Well of Eternity? More so, what if this same mutation affected the wildlife of the area; thus, the origin of Tauren is the same as that of the Night Elves: native cattle mutated by the Well of Eternity to be more like the Titans.

Talgog · 10/13/08, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Incoherence

So... he's telling us that Blizzard doesn't make its "fluff" employees sign NDAs?

People who get laid off and who can post anonymously tend to not be particularly mindful of company secrets. It's been pretty amazing what's come out of Wall Street firms in this downturn, for example. Someone used their phone to photograph a hiring freeze e-mail that was sent to their monitored coroporate e-mail, and then posted that on a Wall Street gossip blog that does not keep IP logs.

An NDA isn't going to stop someone who is intent on getting back at their employer. That said, this sort of inherently anonymous rumor should be taken for what it's worth.

Randyll · 10/13/08, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by ZulazeeluIcecrown

I had an interesting thought recently. Sorry that this is not directly tied to Wrath lore (though in a way it is)... the fact that the origin of humans and gnomes is revealed as Titan-based in Wrath got me thinking about the origin of the other Azeroth-"native" races, specifically the aforementioned furries Tauren, Quillboar, Gnolls, etc. We "know" that Night Elves were the result of "radiation" from the Well of Eternity causing mutations in Trolls. The interesting thing about these mutations is they caused the Trolls to look more like Humans... and more like the Titan statues (Archaedeus et al).

What if this was an intentional effect of the Titan-created Well of Eternity? More so, what if this same mutation affected the wildlife of the area; thus, the origin of Tauren is the same as that of the Night Elves: native cattle mutated by the Well of Eternity to be more like the Titans.

In regards to te origin of humans and gnomes: current WOTLK lore points out that humans are descendants from the Vrykul. The effect known as "Curse of the Flesh" was a curse created by the Old Gods to "facilitate assimilation". Interesting bit is that this curse affected almost every race on azeroth, causing Earthen to become Dwarves and Vrykul to become Human. Funnily enough, gnomes were robots once