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Old 10/13/08, 1:38 PM   #811
Emeraude
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Sargeras
You guys should really read up on the Pandaren, even though it was created as a joke, the RPG books have given the race a rich background.

Pandaren - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

China seems to have a large influence on this race:
The Pandaren originally had a Japanese appearance, using samurai-style armor and weapons. After a negative reaction by many in China, who regard the animal as their national heirloom, (indeed, wild pandas only exist in China), they were redesigned with Chinese-style clothing.

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Old 10/13/08, 1:40 PM   #812
andastra
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Originally Posted by Liebestod View Post
- No pandaren because of China. Maybe they'll be introduced later. Personally, I've never understood this very well since it's not as though the Pandaren are portrayed in a negative light... but maybe the thought of killing Pandas or merely having Pandas that can die ingame would be considered offensive. Kinda sucks.
From what I understand, it's because the Blizzard portrayal of Pandaren culture is heavily Japanese. Many in China are still bitter over World War 2. The government, obviously, is looking for openings to exploit that line of thought. A "Look at how Westerners are insulting our culture by comparing them with the hated Japanese" potential to be used as a propaganda tool would give Blizzard cause for concern. Yes, there's some elements of Chinese culture in the Pandaren but it's way more heavily Japanese than anything else.

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Old 10/13/08, 2:13 PM   #813
Opioid
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I'm glad Malygos at least has his own skin/head model on top of the default "elder dragon" body model. They should keep up giving at least the very important dragons their own unique individual features.

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/.../391532624.jpg


It seems that with the major dragons Blizzard has been sticking to D&D designs which is a nice nod
Nef/Ony (black): sinister faces, socketed eyes, big bull-like horns
Vael (red): backwards pointing gazelle style horns
Azure/Maly (blue): prominent nose structures/nose horn, frills

Last edited by Opioid : 10/13/08 at 2:21 PM.

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Old 10/13/08, 3:37 PM   #814
Duodecimal
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Originally Posted by Dancing Wu Li Master View Post
We also have a decent idea about Draenor, and a vague one about Argus.
Ah, I was referring to the non-fiction universe.

I'm not sure but I think I might have edited WoWWiki ages ago with a listing of all the explicitly mentioned worlds, but I can't access it right now.

As for speculation about the next expansion, I'm still surprised we're already facing the Lich King. I was positive the Howling Fjord files indicated some kind of CoT instance. I don't think they'll say we'd be surprised by a Maelstrom expansion, since that's one of the two we know we have left besides the Emerald Dream.

Saying "not continents" might mean "oceans". Might also mean "worlds". There are lots of other dark portals.

A question about the Wrath Gate quest line -- for the Horde, the Alliance show up after the defeat of Varimathras. If this is consistent with the Alliance version of the quest, is there any boss fight for them?

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Old 10/13/08, 3:44 PM   #815
Douglas
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Originally Posted by Duodecimal View Post
A question about the Wrath Gate quest line -- for the Horde, the Alliance show up after the defeat of Varimathras. If this is consistent with the Alliance version of the quest, is there any boss fight for them?
As I recall, for the Alliance, Wrath Gate is followed up by chasing down and slaughtering Putress in Undercity. Happened after, not before, but as part of the same chain.

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Old 10/13/08, 10:51 PM   #816
Randyll
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Originally Posted by Duodecimal View Post
As for speculation about the next expansion, I'm still surprised we're already facing the Lich King. I was positive the Howling Fjord files indicated some kind of CoT instance. I don't think they'll say we'd be surprised by a Maelstrom expansion, since that's one of the two we know we have left besides the Emerald Dream.

A question about the Wrath Gate quest line -- for the Horde, the Alliance show up after the defeat of Varimathras. If this is consistent with the Alliance version of the quest, is there any boss fight for them?
The Howling Fjord files were inside the "Expansion02" folder, it would have been hard to think of it being just another CoT instance. Given that it was very early on in there (April 2007), one would think that with design priorities focusing on zones before instances, I think it was safe to assume it would be a zone. Implementing a zone like that as an instance seemed a bit odd anyway... I understood that you meant it could have been a CoT instance while the expansion itself could have been about something else.

As for the Wrath Gate series: to put it simply, The Battle for Undercity part of the quest chain is different in that when inside Undercity, Horde are tasked with killing Varimathras and Alliance have to kill Putress. They assault Undercity from opposite ends, Horde goes from the front and Alliance goes from the sewers. Quest-wise, this happens simultaneously, because when Putress is dead as an Alliance player, Varian Wrynn hears about Thrall who has just killed Varimathras and storms the throne room. For Horde players, when Varimathras is dead, Wrynn & Co. storms inside the throne room.

Last edited by Randyll : 10/13/08 at 10:59 PM.

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Old 10/14/08, 12:28 AM   #817
AJAlkaline
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I think an all-around Caverns of Time based expansion might not be entirely unlikely. It wouldn't feature a new continent, per se, and it certainly wouldn't be something most WoW players would have expected. It has a decent amount of plot leading into it (a plot which ought to be much more epic than they treat it), and players already have a familiarity with what the Caverns of Time is all about. It offers Blizzard the ability to reuse old areas and resources and go back and strengthen player's understanding of the story so far, and it has almost unlimited material to draw from with Warcraft's convoluted lore.

They have the potential to draw from events occurring all throughout the War of the Ancients, the First War, the Second War, the Third War, and events taking place directly before WoW. They could even go further and present scenarios from the various Warcraft books or past events on other worlds like Outlands or Argus. Heck, they could even allow players to travel back to the war between the titans and the old gods, and the subsequent rebuilding of Azeroth.

This has already been mentioned earlier, but I think it bears repeating, especially after this interview:
BlizzCon 2008: WoW Insider interviews J. Allen Brack - WOW Insider
(The relevant answer is near the end)

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Old 10/14/08, 1:15 AM   #818
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Quoting the section of AJAlkaline's link:

World of Warcraft is basically on top of the world -- it's far and above the biggest MMO out there, it could be the biggest game in the world, and obviously, your company has never been better and just keeps growing. So the last question is just, what haven't you done yet? What else does Blizzard want out of this game?

Oh wow. Well for me, I mean, as a player, there's always new stuff I want to do. Caverns of Time is one of my favorite things, so I want to see more Caverns of Time. There's a lot of areas in the world that have trails to further adventures, so like Grim Batol and what's going on there. The Hyjal zone, I'd like to do something with that. There's a lot of areas in the world that already exist that I'd really like to explore, and there's also the new ideas, we brought up new ideas for new expansions. Emerald Dream, what would that look like. Going back to some of the Ancients stuff from more of a lore perspective, seeing what that was like. Seeing the War of the Dragons, that would look good, that would be really cool. I think it's a huge world, so there's a lot of opportunities to find cool stuff.

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Old 10/14/08, 1:37 AM   #819
Jagiya
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With all the Red Dragonflight interaction going on in Northrend, 3.2 sure does seem like the right time to introduce a Grim Batol raid. It'll open some nice doors into the Deathwing story, too; and maybe even set us up for an expansion aimed at Deathwing and Sargeras.

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Old 10/14/08, 1:45 AM   #820
Ghostyman
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Originally Posted by Tyrian View Post
Pandas are one of prime symbols of China, considered a national treasure and a symbol of peace. It does not seem unreasonable that the country would not respond favourably to something like this portrayed in a war game. What do we do do in WoW? We kill stuff. Sure, theres lots of types of combat: dungeons/raids/arena/bs, but ultimately we kill stuff. The only images i've seen of pandas from any media are that of a peaceful and vulernable creature that needs to be protected. I think its very reasonable for Chinese authorities to want to regulate their image, even if its in a video game. The same principle applies to any powerful symbol, like the Olympic rings. Even if a few 'average people' don't care about their possible mis-use, their national and international importance/symbolism is something that is important to many others and should be protected.

The vague comment regarding the third expansion is interesting. But i'd still bet money its going to be the Maelstrom!
It is not my intention to derail the conversation. That said, and even though the quoted argument is quite well constructed, having lived among the chinese for two years and even speaking their language, I can tell you all that there is not much conscious thought in the vein of respect or reverence for the panda, so to speak. Think of it like the bald eagle. We Americans think of it as a national symbol (I think), but for all that, I have no living memory of someone going out of their way to make a fuss about the eagle. There is even less public nationalism in China toward the panda; but then again it may be that I am the victim of massive coincidence in that no one ever even mentioned it when I was around.

Now, I completely agree that national symbols should not be the targets of people's ridicule. I also know for a fact that the Chinese leaders have really big heads, and want to have their hand in things and throw their weight around things that are really none of their business. Taiwan is a perfect example of this; the Taiwanese govern themselves, and do not possess a great amount of natural resources (like Japan), so why in the world does China even care what they do? But I digress...

By the way, I will be glad to take anyone up in personal messages about this topic, mainly because I am so passionate about all things Chinese, but this thread is not the place to handle it.

SO...
I just read the blue regarding the "previously unrevealed" raid instance. I'm leaning toward something involving Yogg-Saron, personally. He is far too much of a lore personality to forget about, though he may be treated in another expansion. Though, something that I think may be really unique may involve the other old gods that are still around, possibly under the same roof. What I mean is something on the order of a fight with Yogg and some other evil deity at the same time. THERE would be an epic encounter, yes?

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Old 10/14/08, 2:13 AM   #821
Vaccine
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Originally Posted by Opioid View Post
I'm glad Malygos at least has his own skin/head model on top of the default "elder dragon" body model. They should keep up giving at least the very important dragons their own unique individual features.

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/.../391532624.jpg


It seems that with the major dragons Blizzard has been sticking to D&D designs which is a nice nod
Nef/Ony (black): sinister faces, socketed eyes, big bull-like horns
Vael (red): backwards pointing gazelle style horns
Azure/Maly (blue): prominent nose structures/nose horn, frills

I'm very disappointed they didn't visit his insect form which is a very prominent feature of his appearances in other lore.

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Old 10/14/08, 6:44 AM   #822
Ukerric
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Originally Posted by AJAlkaline View Post
I think an all-around Caverns of Time based expansion might not be entirely unlikely.
On the contrary, it is extremely unlikely.

CoT offers an enormous (one could say endless) potential of scenarios. But that's what they are. Scenarios. Missions. We play "Time Patrol" fixers there.

While time-fixing missions work well for a dungeon format, they translate badly into an overall world. Where are you levelling to 90, I mean? Entirely in dungeons? And with the raid inflation and long expansion time, their design needs periodic resets, which imply levelling.

It's not impossible. Everquest tried it, it was Lost Dungeons of Norrath. Near-universal sentiment about them was that they could have stayed lost for all we cared. A WoW expansion based exclusively on dungeons... I'm sure there's plenty (notably on these boards) who'd like that. But the global population? Not so sure.

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Old 10/14/08, 6:58 AM   #823
Mogwai
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Who said anything about making it dungeon based? You could just go through a Dark Portal style load screen and have a new Azeroth based around pre-W3 storylines. Not original granted, but not necessarily dungeon based.

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Old 10/14/08, 10:03 AM   #824
AJAlkaline
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Yeah, that was more or less what I was getting at. Sort of like how you can go back to Old Hillsbrad and there's an entire zone there (even if you're only going to very particular places), it's not impossible to imagine going back in time to a zone in the past and finding a quest hub that will take you up an entire level. As in, what if you went to Southshore and there were a bunch of quest givers there? For instance, maybe for level 83-84 you go to the Redridge Mountains circa the summoning of Ragnaros and do various quests from bronze dragon NPCs to ensure that it happens (but also to ensure that the dark iron dwarves are not successful in their conquest). Or perhaps from 85-86 you go to a battlefield of the second war and take various quests from alliance commanders to prevent the horde from getting the upper hand. The idea is that unlike Outlands or Northrend where you just walk from zone to zone, each new zone takes place in a new time period during some epic portion of Warcraft lore.

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Old 10/14/08, 1:04 PM   #825
Dazwin
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Originally Posted by AJAlkaline View Post
The idea is that unlike Outlands or Northrend where you just walk from zone to zone, each new zone takes place in a new time period during some epic portion of Warcraft lore.
Hopefully, their sentiments about CoT ("we love it, there's so much we could do with it") may extend to this. It's a pretty great idea.

My personal preference, though, would be for that to be a "subset" of an expansion and not the entire thing. Something in me likes it that most expansions actually add to the physical world.

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