Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Public Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05/07/10, 8:57 AM   #8371
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Elhandil View Post
Always wondered why they chose to imprison the Old Gods, while they radically reoriginated other worlds when something went wrong.
Reorigination would have (I believe) reset the landmasses and "life" (constructs - Iron Dwarves, etc, no fleshy bits) that is indigenous to Azeroth. Old Gods are not of Azeroth, they are external. Everything would be reoriginated around them, but they'd still be present.

The Titans are very much creatures of Order. Chaos is rather anathema to them. A Sutekh boss (Setesh) embodying chaos is not necessarily of Titan design. Remember things were set up tens of thousands of years ago. The Tol'vir civilization was either set up by the Titans or evolved from the Titan setup (who knows at this point). Set them up with worship of specific facets of order/creation and let them go. Give them a tiny bit of time, someone will notice the missing element (Chaos or Evil) exists but doesn't have a representation - maybe worshiping it will appease it or let you redirect it to others, thus avoiding it yourself. Or you're just a powerhungry prick and it seems easier than legitimate work (Dark Side, anyone?).

Setesh may simply be a Tol'vir priest-king of their Chaos cult, a cult which gained legitimacy and public acknowledgement. Not explicitly Titan, but something logical created by those who were created by the Titans (Tol'vir).

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/07/10, 9:42 AM   #8372
Yichimet
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Twisting Nether
Originally Posted by Camaris View Post

- There is now a back entrance on the north side of the Dwarven District. It seems to lead to the area with the Twilight camp/
This is probably not a "Twilight camp" and more likely the dwarven shaman training area in Stormwind.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/07/10, 10:26 AM   #8373
Bierzkrieg
King Hippo
 
Orc Warrior
 
Burning Steppes (EU)
@Zaniel: There's getting the mythological references right, and there's fitting them to the game's lore. Elhandil's doubts and my theory fall under the latter. Still, thanks for pointing those facts out, I honestly hadn't gotten the other 3 gods (besides Seth) due to faster-than-attention reading.

This fella:

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...vashjir_21.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...vashjir_50.jpg

seems to be old god-related material. It's actually becoming a curious tendency, this proliferation of gigantic shells and skeletons. Anyway, great design, hope we get to see a live one. Still, this only makes it harder to figure out who the Naga are serving. Or what they're up to.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/07/10, 11:16 AM   #8374
Arthek
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Warsong
Actually there are two of these giant things in Vashj'ir,
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...vashjir_21.jpg - This guy, who seems to be alive (if they are living creatures and not just some creepy building).
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...vashjir_41.jpg - and this one who looks abandoned (since there are naga flags inside the other one).

Brazil Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/07/10, 11:27 AM   #8375
Bierzkrieg
King Hippo
 
Orc Warrior
 
Burning Steppes (EU)
Nespirah

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...vashjir_21.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...vashjir_58.jpg

And L'Ghorek

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...vashjir_50.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...vashjir_41.jpg

At least based on the colours...Though they both seem "ocupados". Nothing strange for a creature of this size, Naga would be like ants. Or it could be that Old God structures are actually alive...

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/07/10, 11:54 AM   #8376
Camaris
Piston Honda
 
Camaris's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Kul Tiras (EU)
Very interesting (and inherently awesome, of course).. I'm hoping we will actually get to learn something about the Old Gods this time around, similar to how we discovered the Titan story in Wrath. Because other than being big ugly manipulative blobs, we actually have no idea what their gameplan really is, or what all those Forgotten Ones and other creeps are.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/07/10, 12:46 PM   #8377
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Camaris View Post
Very interesting (and inherently awesome, of course).. I'm hoping we will actually get to learn something about the Old Gods this time around, similar to how we discovered the Titan story in Wrath. Because other than being big ugly manipulative blobs, we actually have no idea what their gameplan really is, or what all those Forgotten Ones and other creeps are.
Especially if we get some sort of curveball: Old Gods are not as villainous as we've been told. Actions in self-defense, beneficient towards flesh-life, etc. Or at least some are/can be. Not every human being is a pure and good person, nor are we all evil schemers. Just because C'thun and Yogg-Saron have been big bads does not mean every Old God is a big bad. Especially since both had been imprisoned for thousands of years. Not that it's necessarily a great timespan to an Old God, but remember stories about Djinn - first they promise to grant wishes to their rescuer, sit unrescued long enough and they promise to kill their rescuer, etc. C'thun and Yogg may not have been the best of examples of true Old God motives.

Originally Posted by The Old Gods and the Ordering of Azeroth
As the Titans made their way across the primordial landscape, they encountered a number of hostile elemental beings. These elementals, who worshipped a race of unfathomably evil beings known only as the Old Gods, vowed to drive the Titans back and keep their world inviolate from the invaders' metallic touch.
Remember history is written by the victor. They're evil because they lost a war they fought in self-defense. The aqir are also referred to as evil and expansionistic (The Twin Empires). Because the Trolls trying to kill each other and take over all the landmass was benevolent and parochial. If "our" country does it, it's manifest destiny, if someone else does it, it's expansionistic and a threat.

Blizzard has the chance to do some fun stuff. Potentially setting up a future Titan expansion by making them appear more of a threat than a friend (as well they should be seen).

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/07/10, 1:02 PM   #8378
Tinwhisker
Bald Bull
 
Tinwhisker's Avatar
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Exemplar View Post
Blizzard has the chance to do some fun stuff. Potentially setting up a future Titan expansion by making them appear more of a threat than a friend (as well they should be seen).
Blizzard has shown that the Titans do not necessarily have our best interests in mind. What the Titans care about is in creating/preserving their worlds in a certain way.

Honestly, the Titans looked at the dwarves (transformed from Earthen) and said, "Yeah, ok, that's alright for now I guess; within the margin for error." But I have to wonder if they really would be ok with beings from other planets now infesting this world as well (Orcs, Draenei and Worgen to name a few). Nevermind that the planet was ripped apart once by the Well of Eternity and soon to be Cataclysm.

Reply Code Alpha doesn't imply that the Titans learn anything from it other than that Azeroth is still in one piece (so to speak); no information about massive destruction or offworld infestations. I have to imagine that the state it's in now isn't what they would deem as acceptable.


United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/07/10, 1:55 PM   #8379
Monocle
Don Flamenco
 
Monocle's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Durotan
Originally Posted by Zaniel View Post
You know, it could just also be because the Egyptian god Set (Seht, Seth, Seteh) was the god of chaos (among other things). It's not like the names chosen strayed too far from their original source.

The construct of radiance Rajh = sun god Rah.
The construct of magic Isiset = matron of nature and magic Isis.
The construct of life Ammunae = the creator Amun (Amun-Ra).

And yes, I realize that many of you don't care or perhaps already figured this out, but I do so enjoy spreading a bit of education here and there. It's good to see that Blizz at least got most of their mythology and allusions right!
Well Set was not always considered an evil deity. Originally he was the lord of the deserts, foreigners and also was the warrior who protected Ra's sun barge when it went into the underworld at night. However, When the Hittites conquered Egypt, they adopted Set as their main deity during the occupation. After they were kicked out, the resent over them by the Egyptians was then transfered to Set, which eventually lead to to how we know him today. Well, that and the Greeks really added to the story too when the Ptolemy's were the rulers.

Egyptian antiquity is just such a long time frame that most of the deities as we know them are a big old mishmash of previous ideas. Poor Set is really a great example of being vilified by bad press.

Also noticed that Ptah and Anhuur mentioned in the preview. Both have easy matches. Ptah has the same name as the Egyptian original and Anhuur is just a modified form of Ahnur. Ahnur was an Egyptian war god, actually similar in some ways to Set, and Ptah was one of the gods that had myths of the creation of the universe attributed to him. He was also often pictured as a bald, bearded dwarf, so we may have a hint at what his model will look like, considering the description given, I'm expecting an enhanced Earthen.

Anraphet I can not make any connection to any deity, so he is a bit of a mystery right now.

No Bast yet either, but she may show up somewhere in regards to the Tol'vir.

Now from all this new info, it is beginning to look like the Anubisaths and Obsidian Destroyers were stolen technology. After he got splattered and ended up in Silithus, C'Thun may have tasked his servants to grab a few examples and reverse engineer them so they could reproduce them. We know that the Qiraji did improve the design, Osirian and Moam and all the variations on the the standard that pestered us as trash in AQ were proof of that. Those Old Gods really do like to make use and adapt Titan creations, don't they?

We also may have a reason why all the two Aqir derived races had the Egyptian theme, they may have been just copying what was nearest to them.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/07/10, 2:33 PM   #8380
Nathanyel
Don Flamenco
 
Nathanyel's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
*edit* Right, I already speculated about Titans as temporary enemies.

Un-influenced Titans and their underlings as situational enemies would definitely be interesting. I don't think whether you can paint anything Old-God-related as "good", though. If they do manage to pull that off in a good fashion, Titans and Old Gods would remind me (even more) of the Cosmocrats and Chaotarchs of the Perry Rhodan SciFi series.

Since the series is probably not very known, I'll explain "shortly":
When they were introduced, the Cosmocrats came off as positive god-like beings, three steps of evolution above spacefaring species, with a rather symbiotic connection to those lesser beings, trying to bring order and life to the universe(s) - the aesthetic albeit emotionless Algalon is like a direct copy of their robot messengers/representants, sterile and perfect, though some have helped humankind apparently without their masters' knowledge or approval.
The Chaotarchs were their negative counterparts, evolved in parasitic way, feeding off the lesser beings, consuming their home galaxies in the process. Their ultimate goal seems to be ending all universes in a heat death, in "chaos", absolute disorder, in opposition to a feared standstill by the absolute order that the Cosmocrats would bring. This may be propaganda or a metaphor, though humans encountered one parallel universe where the Chaotarchs apparently had accelerated the heat death.
One major tool for their goals are the negaspheres: initially small malignant growths (from our POV) in time&space that would not last very long on their own as the universe has self-repair mechanisms, these tumors are protected and artificially advanced to grow, to a stage where it includes one or more galaxies - "normal" physics of the respective universe are perverted to create something strange, changing some life forms to creatures adapted to these new physics, and killing off everything else, whatever survives the infestation of its planet soon is purged by "natural selection". Very reminiscent of the Old Gods' corruption.

It later became apparent, however, that the Cosmocrats lost track, while they weren't actively harming lesser beings, they saw them as mere tools to achieve their goals, easy to sacrifice in large masses, and programs to promote the spread of life were cancelled as "Life Itself" as in the mortal species became a too large factor, while recent information show certain altruistic albeit most likely propagandistic features in Chaos organisations, at least they showed interest in their underlings - while they were still enemies of the humans and their allies, they sometimes appeared to have more in common with them than the Cosmocrats.
Overall, the authors took their initial concept of black and white created in the late 70s, at the height of the Cold War, and added the modern gray: everything can be "good" or "bad" in context, which is very strong in Warcraft, too, at least since the third RTS.

Last edited by Nathanyel : 05/07/10 at 2:53 PM.

Tender Puregrove: It's those little victores that keep me going. We'll save this forest one squirrel at a time.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/08/10, 6:46 AM   #8381
NykylaiHellray
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Stormrage (EU)
Originally Posted by Monocle View Post
No Bast yet either, but she may show up somewhere in regards to the Tol'vir.

Now from all this new info, it is beginning to look like the Anubisaths and Obsidian Destroyers were stolen technology. After he got splattered and ended up in Silithus, C'Thun may have tasked his servants to grab a few examples and reverse engineer them so they could reproduce them. We know that the Qiraji did improve the design, Osirian and Moam and all the variations on the the standard that pestered us as trash in AQ were proof of that. Those Old Gods really do like to make use and adapt Titan creations, don't they?

We also may have a reason why all the two Aqir derived races had the Egyptian theme, they may have been just copying what was nearest to them.

Now I think its more then that, the central pyramid in AQ looks nearly identical to the style in Uldum. Also they both use scarabs in their art. One thing which also seemed wrong with me, is that they honestly believed C'thun was dead, or that his corpse could not do anything. So what if AQ was originally another section of a massive Uldum complex which included Un'Goro (created like Ulduar to be a massive prison.)

Maybe when C'thun created the Aqir they caught the titans constructs off guard, and then converted a large section of the complex for their own purposes. But then they adpated the style of the complex as their own, and as such all modifications that they created carried the same style.

Another thing which was noticed on Scrolls of Lore, that each of the 4 magic keepers seem to be mirrored after the 4 types of magic in warcraft.

Radiance - Holy
Life - Nature
Chaos - Shadow
Magic - Arcane

Now one might wonder why they have a seat for shadow magic. Well its best to have some form of order to control it then non at all and let it spread.


Edit: Also a little bit of info has been discovered about quel thalas. It seems a copy of instanced ZA has been put next to ghostlands ready to be connected.

Last edited by NykylaiHellray : 05/08/10 at 6:57 AM.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/09/10, 12:00 AM   #8382
Consider
King Hippo
 
Consider's Avatar
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
Based on this, it would appear that L'ghorek and, presumably, Nespirah are both ancients (in the demi-god sense of the term, not the tree kind, of course), which likely rules out the possibility of them being creatures/creations of the Old Gods.

On top of that, Supression Bolt and Broken Resolve, make it appear as if someone - likely Naga or Twilight Cultists - is trying to corrupt them for their own purposes, which further supports the idea of them being benevolent (or, at least, neutral) creatures, and not inherently evil. It's possible that L'ghorek has already been corrupted, which is why you have spells like this, and that Nespirah is merely in the process.

Last edited by Consider : 05/09/10 at 12:13 AM.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/09/10, 9:11 AM   #8383
Chantinelle
Von Kaiser
 
Chantinelle's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
Moving back to the Garrosh question, things are hotting up:


Garrosh Hellscream: Don't talk back to me, troll. You know who was left in charge here. Have you not stopped to ask yourself why Thrall chose me instead of you?

Vol'Jin: Dere's no question why, Garrosh. He gave ya the title because he needed ta see once and for all if ya could overcome the pride and bloodlust dat have long run in ya family. I t'ink he did not expect de answer to be apparent so soon.

Garrosh Hellscream: You're lucky I don't gut you right here, whelp. You are foolish to think you can speak to your Warchief in such ways.

Vol'Jin: You're no Warchief of mine. Ya've not earned my respect, and I'll not see the Horde destroyed by ya thirst for war.

Garrosh Hellscream: And what exactly do you think that you are going to do about it? Your threats are hollow. Go slink away with the rest of your kind to the slums; I will endure your filth in my throne room no longer.

Vol'Jin: I know exactly what I am going to do about it, son of Hellscream. I will watch and wait as ya people slowly become aware of ya ineptitude. I will laugh as dey grow to despise ya as I do.

Vol'Jin: And when da time comes dat ya failure is complete and ya "power" is meaningless, I will be dere to end ya rule swiftly and silently.

Vol'Jin: Ya will spend ya reign glancin' over ya shoulder and fearin' the shadows, for when da time comes and ya blood slowly drains out, ya will know exactly who fired da arrow dat pierced ya heart.

Garrosh Hellscream: You have sealed your fate, troll.

Garrosh spits at Vol'Jin.

Vol'Jin: And you yours, "Warchief."



Vol'Jin just provided more awesomeness in 2 minutes than he has in the entire 6 years previously combined.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/09/10, 11:01 AM   #8384
Bullshot
Don Flamenco
 
Bullshot's Avatar
 
Human Hunter
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Heh, now that was an exchange. I wouldn't be surprised if the Horde ended up in a civil war by the time the last content patch of the Cataclysm content-cycle rolled around. Openly threatening assassination is very interesting though.

India Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 05/09/10, 11:01 AM   #8385
Cybsled
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Doomhammer
Where is that conversation from? The alpha? Seems like they will be setting Garrosh up for a fall down the line, much like Fandriel.

And I agree, it is nice to see Vol'Jin do something more then bust open the booze barrels during Brewfest.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Public Discussion

Thread Tools