World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 577

Monocle · 05/28/10, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Nuke1096

In that case...

Dungeon/Raid Achievements

Blackrock Caverns

* Rom'ogg Bonecrusher
* Corla, Herald of Twilight
* Karsh Steelbender
* Beauty
* Ascendant Lord Obsidius

Throne of the Tides

* Lady Naz'jar
* Commander Ulthok
* Erunak Stonespeaker
* Ozumat

Grim Batol

* General Umbriss
* Forgemaster Throngus
* Drahga Shadowburner
* Erudax

Blackwing Descent

* Magmaw
* Dark Iron Golem Council
* Maloriac
* Chimaron
* Atramedes
* Nefarian

Anybody want to start guessing what sort of race/mobs some of these bosses are? Some you can tell pretty easily, others I have no idea.

I snipped the HoO stuff as we went over them a couple pages back. A lot of these are big unknowns. I bet Beauty is that new Corehound with the puppies and Ascendant Lord Obsidius' name at least sounds Black Dragon flight fitting. Lady Naz'jar is obviously a Naga and most likely a handmaiden, so maybe Blizzard will re-use Vashj's model with some tweaks? Not many people got to see her model, and it was one of the nicer ones in BC, so I can see Blizzard reusing it.

Blackwing Descent is a little easier to try to guess, as we can draw on the original BWL. Magmaw sounds like another one of the drakes. The Dark Iron Golem Council is a bit odd, as Nef was fighting against the Golems back in Vanilla. Maybe after MC was cleared out, the design specs were stolen by Black Flight agents? No clue on the other three, and Nef is of course himself, though with a likely cyborg upgrade like his sister.

Which is another thing, no Ony by herself, so it is possible she really is just part of the Nef encounter. No Cho'gall yet either, so if he is in Cataclysm is still up in the air. I'm thinking we will see him after all the effort to reintroduce him that was done in the comics.

Nathanyel · 05/28/10, 11:36 AM

(yes, hang me for posting another model)
Well, Cho'gall got some textures in the recent build:

Looks like pre-"Cho'thun" though, so maybe for a flashback?

Monocle · 05/28/10, 11:53 AM

Didn't Blizzard mention that we would be getting another Caverns of Time instance? He could be in one if they do that. Or he could have lost C'Thun's "Blessing" after he got his butt kicked by Med'an and is back to normal, well as normal as an insane Ogre Magi is.

Blayze · 05/28/10, 12:19 PM

Guesswork time.

Rom'ogg -- Ogre
Corla -- Cultist. Elf?
Karsh -- Dwarf Cultist? Orc?
Beauty -- Core Hound
Obsidius -- Black

Naz'jar -- Naga
Ulthok -- I want to say Naga Lord like Naj'entus, but (As with the one just below) I can't place the naming convention. It sounds harsh enough to be Orcish, I think...
Erunak -- Don't know.
Ozumat -- Elemental?

Umbriss -- Dwarf?
Throngus -- Dwarf
Drahga -- Dwarf, Warlock
Erudax -- Twilight

Magmaw -- Black
Council -- ...
Maloriac -- Another Black?
Chimaron -- Chromatic
Atramedes -- Perhaps another Black. These Dragonflights are starting to confuse me.
Nefarian -- Robo-Drake

Leviathon · 05/28/10, 12:41 PM

Last build a bunch of old BWL spells had new versions added so I'd expect counterparts to a lot of BWL's fights inside Blackwing Descent. Chimaron for example would use the new breaths that were added if he is the Chrommagus copy.

Bregonn · 05/28/10, 1:13 PM

Chimaron sounds like a chimarea, possibly experimented. They have dragon heads so it fits the theme. He would still breath and if he's an experiment probably 2 different elements.

Atramedes sounds Titan-like. I know, it doesn't make sense lore-wise. But I first thought of Archaedas when I read the name.

The heads on the Cho'gal model seem a bit tacked on. Like someone took an ogre model, moved the head to the left and added another one.

Exemplar · 05/28/10, 1:57 PM

Any or all of Ulthok, Erunak, or Ozumat could be Gilgoblins. Ozumat sounds vaguely goblinesque. It's also not unreasonable to expect another Hydra style mob, or even a Makrura. Yes, the Makrura are enemies (and food) of the Naga, but betrayers are a common theme in WoW.

Atramedes being Titan-esque might not be a bad guess. Nefarian likes to steal other technologies and try to merge them. What he would do if he got his hands (claws?) on Titan technology could be very frightening indeed.

Nuke1096 · 05/28/10, 4:57 PM

Originally Posted by Monocle

Which is another thing, no Ony by herself, so it is possible she really is just part of the Nef encounter. No Cho'gall yet either, so if he is in Cataclysm is still up in the air. I'm thinking we will see him after all the effort to reintroduce him that was done in the comics.

Fairly certain that Nef and Ony are actually the same encounter and you fight them at the same time. There was an achievement data mined in the very first alpha patch.

As for Cho'Gall, I still think he ends up being the final raid boss in the Grim Batol raid.

Nathanyel · 05/29/10, 4:48 AM

Throngus is an Ettin, according to game files. He has a slightly custom Ettin model under the Ettin header.

NykylaiHellray · 05/29/10, 7:14 AM

There is a long post on mmowned from an alpha player (which in itself carries lots of nice lore information, including the rebuilding of the brotherhood, and a battle between Ragnaros and Ysara.) According to his original post (though he might be being sycastic) Ettins are a half breed of Ogre and Giant.

Now while you try and get your head around a slighty creepy image of these two creatures getting it on, it does make me wonder if Pygmys might also be a hybrid. Maybe linked to troggs?

Also here is the last of the four magic guardian models.

Two have been updated.

Liebestod · 05/29/10, 9:43 AM

Originally Posted by Vaccine

As with all wowwiki stuff it might just be the authors opinion, I just remember reading that exact line about 4 or 5 years ago when reading about the Elemental Lords in the first place so it always stuck with me. He also at some point attempted to wipe out the troll race. I just don't see him of all the Elemental Lords resorting to buddying up with mortals.

Thereazane would be my guess given her possible links with the Tauren, especially as we know already Malorne and Cenarius are coming back and she kind of has links to those two through Zaetar and Theradras. Possible Earthmother of Tauren beliefs, always described as the most peaceful of the Old Gods. Also I know we go to Deepholme, but we know Deathwing has been residing there. Perhaps he had to subdue Therazane first before he could claim it as his. It is hard to judge an Elemental Lords power as we've not fought one at full power, but I could see Old God infused Deathwing being able to beat her and she wouldn't necessarily have the home ground advantage given his mastery over the earth.

As I recall most of the information given on the elemental lords comes from the Warcraft RPG book, whose canonicity has been overwritten with new lore developments in the past, I believe. I wouldn't be surprised if the elemental lords were recast to a large extent into whatever stories Blizz has in mind for Cataclysm.

Ratek · 05/29/10, 11:28 AM

A possibility I guess since only Ragnaros has truly shown his colours so far in the game.

The others can be changed from more or less lesser versions of the Old Gods to unwilling pawns of superiors beings. It just seems that it would not be overly interesting to do that. It would in fact be more fun to have independant forces of evil fighting each other and us as well. Or at least try to ignore us "gah why do you meddle in our business mortals, can't you see the destruction you bear with you" etc etc.
Anything below that, such as chaning Neptulon to a less cruel persona... It just begs the question of why? A villain needs not change unless he is suddenly going to be redeemed.

I think the overall picture of the Elemental Lords will stay much the same as so far. Reasonable and supportive as long as we serve their needs. Beyond that, not our friends at all (well maybe the Earth Lord).
But it wouldn't be the first time Blizzard would surprise me with something I would find totally unneeded, so anything goes.

Kaejin · 05/29/10, 8:15 PM

Evil is different things to different people. Ragnaros might be all about the purging by fire and burning down Hyjal, but maybe Neptulon is more about control and manipulation, in which case he would likely never appear to be outright evil until maybe you piss him off and he releases the Kraken on you.

Therazane may not be any less evil than the others, but views life on Azeroth as her children and so they never see her dark side. I doubt it's coincidence that she ended up locked in the Elemental plane with the other Elemental Lords.

Ratek · 05/30/10, 8:23 AM

Evil is indeed a thing of perception, but we only have our own perception to rank it on.

We might not think ourselves evil, but I'm sure that if potatoes could speak we would be seen as pretty evil, boiling them alive every day with no thought to it. Hence, we can only really use the term on our... ehm terms. Thus if Therazane acts kindly or at least not directly destructive towards us or our surroundings, then to us she isn't evil. She might very well be evil to some force we don't know of, but who is to say that their actions aren't equally evil to our perceptions too?

The Elemental Lords were imprisoned in the Elemental Plane because of their actions towards creating a perpetual chaos, where the Titans sought order. They have shown a pretty callous disregard as to cause and mortals (see Algalon for instance). If Therazane's part in the chaos was to protect and empower the mortals to fight the other Lords (or even just cause a shift away from the Titans), then to the Titans she too would be as guilty as the other Lords, but to the mortals and life in general she would still appear positive. The Titans' perception and ours aren't the same.

Leviathon · 05/30/10, 4:49 PM

A summary of some Echo Isles and Vasj'ir quests was posted on wowleaks.

In the Echo Isles quests, the first few levels are pretty simple. They have you introduce yourself to Vol'jin, fish for some crab meat, best prisoners in a dueling pit, herd some raptors back to the tribe and basically just learn how to play. Once you get to Darkspear Hold at around level 5, the real storyline begins. Vol'jin has been having concerns about Garrosh Hellscream's direction for the Horde(as you see from the vision quest that many of us have scene). However, I must make it very clear that Vol'jin is not being cowardly. He ensures the player that the Darkspear Tribe deserve a lasting home, and that he will let no outsider threaten that. The Troll Druids have a few unique quests that explains a bit of their origins, nothing too significant. After that, you are directed towards the northern isles to deal with the naga that have been entrenching the place. After killing some of the naga, you learn a deadly secret: the naga are being lead by the Sea Witch. The same Sea Witch that had caused the death of Sen'jin. Vol'jin is furious at this revelation, and the final quest in the Echo Isles has Vol'jin and the player leading an attack on the Sea Witch and killing her. It is implied that the Sea Witch has been sent to the Echo Isles by a dark mistress from the deeps. As a minor note, there is also a new subzone called "Zalazane's Fall" at the location of where Zalazane was killed.

Then...moving on to Vash'jr! There is a very interesting questline here that can only be compared to the Matthias Lehner questline in Icecrown. It is a series of flashback quests where you play as an actual naga, "The Battlemaiden". The quests take place mainly in an area known as the Temple of Quel'Dormir(containing a weapon similar to the elven blades Quel'delar and Quel'serrar that is wielded by the Battlemaiden). The temple belongs to the naga, and they have recently come under fierce attack from the mysterious Kvaldir(the sea vykrul). The quests deal with how the naga manage to defeat the kvaldir, and at what cost. The Merciless Ones(monsters allied to an Old God sleeping beneath the Maelstrom) are corrupting the gilgoblins and long dead sea-kraken to slaughter all in Vash'jr. The Naga have been sacrificing Horde and Alliance prisoners and using their blood to aid a summoning ritual; a ritual that they hope will summon a powerful servant of the Old Gods to eliminate any non-Naga in the area. Now this is where it gets interesting...!

The kvaldir are working for Neptulon the Tidehunter, the Elemental Lord of the seas(like Ragnaros, only with water). Neptulon has within his possession a trident that can manipulate any river, lake, sea or Water Elemental to do his bidding. Queen Azshara been feeling emboldened and has ordered her naga to find a way to conquer Neptulon's home in the Abyssal Maw so that she may possess his trident. So far, she has been unsuccessful but after the Cataclysm Neptulon's realm has become vulnerable to attack. The last quest in the Battlemaiden flashback shows the Naga have been successful in summoning their monster from their ritual. Although it is not directly stated, it is strongly implied that Neptulon has lost any allies he used to have. It is hinted that the Old Gods have lost faith in Neptulon, and that Deathwing has been capitalizing on this by trying to force an alliance between the water elementals and himself.

It's interesting that the Sea Witch really is the same Sea Witch that killed Sen'jin and now it seems we know who the Kvaldir are serving and why they dislike the Naga.