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Old 06/29/10, 9:28 AM   #8941
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
As accurately stated above, Horde and Alliance military decisions were crap. The Ebon Blade has been the most incisive and victorious. Darion clearly understands his Sun Tzu, with a fair bit of Che Guevara added. Strength against Weakness, and heavy usage of Guerrilla tactics. I think he was most successful, however, at subversive action. Ebon Blade could often freely mingle with Scourge and perform effectively Terrorist actions (not that Scourge feel Terror or Fear). Set bombs, assassinate leadership structures, and generally wreak havoc. The inability to tell friend from foe (or just difficulty) is part of what makes terrorism and guerrilla methods functional. Darion was able to send one or two EB members in to a strong point - not exactly traditional Strength against Weakness.

Love the Evil Overlord reference to Sylvanus. She really could be reading that checklist daily. Varimathras should have read #54: # "I will not strike a bargain with a demonic being then attempt to double-cross it simply because I feel like being contrary."

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

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Old 06/29/10, 10:37 AM   #8942
Bierzkrieg
King Hippo
 
Orc Warrior
 
Burning Steppes (EU)
To the demon's credit, he was somewhat successful, as in he may have laid the foundations for a divided, weaker Azeroth to be invaded in the future. Plus, he's a Dreadlord, they have the Reincarnation passive talent, with only, what, 2 years cooldown?

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Old 06/29/10, 9:40 PM   #8943
Ratek
Banned
 
Troll Shaman
 
Runetotem (EU)
They can kill each other (permanently) I believe. Though Varimathras didn't do it. That should have been the first indication something wasn't right with him, though he is a Dreadlord, it is silly to trust one.

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Old 06/29/10, 11:00 PM   #8944
Kaejin
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
It's forbidden among the Nathrezim to kill each other, but it was never said that killing each other would result in a permanent death.

Furthermore, no one knew Balnazarr was alive until Classic, and apparently no one told Sylvanas.

Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.

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Old 06/30/10, 9:57 AM   #8945
dustdog
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Arthas
I've often wondered why it's considered to be forbidden to do such a thing. It's fair enough to say it's traitorous and what not, but if that's the case there's usually some kind of punishment for doing so. He didn't have Sargeras in his corner back then (and he may not now either).

Balnazaar didn't go for revenge, and Mal'Ganis didn't do anything Bounty Hunter like, so it leaves me somewhat confused.

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Old 06/30/10, 10:59 AM   #8946
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Or maybe Balnazzar and Varimathras, being lying deceitful Nathrezim, planned in advance. If any could ever get any mileage from "killing" another, they'd talk about reluctance, the victim would curse about broken rules. Faked death of a brother to gain significant trust and political mileage? Sounds like a win in Nathrezim terms.

I'm sure Varimathras could later afford to send Balnazzar some gold to cover the repair bill.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

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Old 06/30/10, 3:47 PM   #8947
zoombini
Piston Honda
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Sentinels
Giant lore dump from the CDev team here. Too much stuff to quote, but it does confirm that Vezax != Tyr.

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Old 06/30/10, 4:39 PM   #8948
Gromweld
TechBot removed in Cata? Occupy Gnomeregan!
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by zoombini View Post
Giant lore dump from the CDev team here. Too much stuff to quote, but it does confirm that Vezax != Tyr.
Poor Kul Tiras.

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Old 06/30/10, 4:40 PM   #8949
Kaejin
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
That's a lot of good information, especially about the relation between Tyr and the Order of the Silver Hand and the nature of the Light.

I'm wondering if the Tol'vir were planned to be the origin of the Obsidian Destroyers in the first place or if it was something they compromised on sometime into the development cycle. They were originally described as a race of stone cat-people, but the most common type we see are the Anubisath, which are obviously based off jackals. In fact, I don't think we've seen any that look like cats.

Goblin Shaman definitely seem like a case of "game-play first, lore second."

I'm a little disappointed to hear that all of the giant mechanical doodads littering Storm Peaks had to do with the Forge of Wills. Not because I think it's a bad idea, but because the Forge of Wills was mostly neglected. It's where all the Iron races (dwarves, vrykul, giants) came from, but it was never really explored as a plot element outside of the Halls of Stone.

Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.

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Old 06/30/10, 5:00 PM   #8950
Earthhoof
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Arathor
Great info; I am particularly happy with this one:

There are more Old Gods than just the ones trapped on Azeroth. It takes a lot for them to become manifested on a physical plane, however; see the quest line in Shadowmoon Valley that ends with "Thwart the Dark Conclave" for more information.
A nice bone to throw about the Old Gods shaping up more and more to be the real big bads in the Warcraft Universe. Despite finding out some more from Brann in Ulduar, this is some nice direct confirmation that Harbinger Skyriss was not just blowing smoke with his boast about how he and his masters "span the universe, as countless as the stars".

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Old 06/30/10, 5:58 PM   #8951
Ratek
Banned
 
Troll Shaman
 
Runetotem (EU)
Very nice info on the Old Gods. But it was to be expected. Most of us assumed as much (right?). I mean the quest and the talks among the Arakoa was quite pointed. On top of that the entire story of how the Old Gods came to be could easily be understood as they traveled to Azeroth under the Titan's radar... Or some such, since physically travelling isn't their way.

Sorry to hear about Kul Tiras. It isn't dead, but it's troubles certainly don't diminish. At the same time
Kul Tiras, the island nation, will not be visible at the start of Cataclysm
My bold, which could be a very small door ajar for letting Kul Tiras enter the fray again. Quite possibly when the Horde/Alliance relations are really in shambles, as the faction that wants the Horde to be burned down etc. Basically the least compromising Alliance faction (Gilneas could easily take that mantle before them though). But it would provide Blizzard with some free 'Alliance isn't good or weaksauce either' lore, to balance it out a bit. Something they have tried and tried to do, and somehow still managed to not really do that well.

I actually like the Goblin Shaman explaination. The Gobbo Shammies simply focus their attention on more flimsy relations, but relations that are much simpler to negotiate. Seems terribly logical from a ruthless tycoon's point of view. And it's true, the Taunka are decidedly tough on their elementals, they basically rob them (this could have been included specifically to give Goblins the 'right' to be Shamans). Once more it is down to the person's view of what a shaman is. Clearly the WoW shamans aren't what we think of in real life. Those real life shamans are more like the WoW druids. Mysticism, spirituality, balance and all that. Shamans are merely elementalists that work for their own good (which doesn't have to be exclusive with overall good), and strike bargains to get that fulfilled. And bargains are what Goblins do best.
I'm actually a little surprised they didn't go with the Taunka style for the Goblins, daylight robbing of power. But I actually like using the racial trait much more.

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Old 06/30/10, 7:55 PM   #8952
Emeraude
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Warrior
 
Sargeras
The NDA has lifted. FINALLY *Cuddles Lore thread*

I've done the following:
Tauren/Troll/Orc/Human/Worgen/Goblin/Dwarf/Forsaken starting areas.
Alliance side: Elwynn Forest, Westfall, Darkshore, Darkshire, Lakeshire, Southern Barrens Blasted Lands. Hyjal/Vashj'ir
Horde side: Northern Barrens, Ashenvale, Stonetalon, Northern STV, Southern STV. Hyjal.

The big subjects:

Garrosh as Warchief
: This is one I've been trying to figure out all of Alpha, and there's still no real clear picture of what happened. Let it be known that whatever event takes place before the Cataclysm that results in Cairne's death didn't play out for us in Alpha. However from the Troll/Orc/Tauren starting areas it's been made clear that it took both poison via the Grimtotems as well as "The Fury of Hellscream" to take down Carine.

Garrosh's control of the Horde: It's pretty much how you've heard it, he races within the Horde have a hefty distrust for one another now. Vol'jin is still salty that Garrosh is the Warchief, and in the Troll starting area he swears to Thrall that he will assist in retaking the Horde when the time comes. In the Forsaken starting area, the Forsaken have a great deal of swagger about themselves now that they are free from the Lich King, in Silverpine, Sylvanas demonstrates that she now has control of the Val'kyr(!) and with them she has a means to resurrect the dead and bolster the Forsaken forces, which she does in front of Garrosh who is disgusted. It's hard to get a read off of the Tauren, though Bane does see Hellscream as his father's killer.

Blood Elf/Draenei involvement: Umm, yeah there's been next to nothing really. =/ The Blood Elves make a small appearance in Azshara mocking the appearance of Night Elf mages, but there isn't much else to go on. You'd think that the Paladin and Magi within Silvermoon would have a bigger presence, but then maybe they're taking that same approach they took in the Second War and not bringing their full potential/power. As for the Draenei, I really can't make an excuse for them, they're damn near non-existant from what's been shown so far.

Horde vs Alliance war, who's winning?: From the zones that have been updated, it's easy to say that the Horde is winning this war. The Night Elves have all but lost Ashenvale, Azshara has definitely been lost to the Horde, and the Horde pushes into Darkshore from the North while the Night Elves are still trying to recover from the destruction of Auberdine. In the Southern Barrens the Alliance destroyed Camp Taurajo, and have established 3 bases of operation: A Small Camp, A Fort, and Bael Modan. Bael Modan however gets destroyed by Goblin Sappers. In Stonetalon, the Night Elves lost the peak to Old God corruption, the Horde nukes a Night Elf civilian settlement.

Misc changes to the world Eastern Kingdoms: In Westfall the people have been suffering post War with the Lich King, poverty leads to the rise of a new Brotherhood. In Redridge, the Gnolls/Blackrock Orcs are leading attacks that lead to a band of Alliance heroes taking some drastic measures. In Duskwood, the Worgen attempt to mend their feral Worgen comrades, and combat the undead that still grip the area. In Northern STV the Gurubashi Empire resurrects itself, while in Southern STV the Bloodsails take center stage in their battle against Booty Bay. In the Blasted Lands the Alliance and Horde scuffle between their new bases of operations, the naga have enslaved their one time murloc allies, and an old demon hunter makes an appearance to combat a powerful demon.

Misc changes to the world Kalimdor: In Darkshore the Night Elves struggle against the angered Elements with the help of Malfurion, while fighting off Horde incursions to the North, as well as an Old God presence to the South. In Ashenvale the Horde pushes the Alliance back in their war efforts, while the Night Elves desperately struggle to hold on to what they have. In Stonetalon the War turns ugly when an Orc commander over-zealously escalates the War between the 2 factions, and the Night Elves discover old god corruption at the peak. In the Northern Barrens...it's almsot all the same. ;p In Azshara the Goblins quickly show the Horde why they are valuable allies expelling the Night Elves from the zone. Azuregos/Kalecgoes make an appearance to combat the Black Dragon Flight, hilarity ensues. In the Southern Barrens the Alliance and Horde fight against each other, losses on both sides, with the Alliance losing Bael Modan and the Horde losing a mine.

That's my initial report, more if it comes to me. :P

What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.

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Old 06/30/10, 11:08 PM   #8953
Leviathon
Great Tiger
 
Worgen Druid
 
Blade's Edge
In today's build Sinestra was added into the files so she is likely the secret in Grim Batol.


Last edited by Leviathon : 07/01/10 at 3:35 AM.

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Old 07/01/10, 1:25 AM   #8954
MizarAlcor
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Uther
Originally Posted by zoombini View Post
but it does confirm that Vezax != Tyr.
How is it confirmed? The only quote I could find was "The watcher Tyr was not in Ulduar when adventurers finally freed the titan city from Yogg-Saron's influence. If anyone knows where Tyr is now, he or she isn't speaking up.". To be honest, I didn't get what is implied on the last sentence. Also, if it's confirmed, then how can we see many Vezax-like creatures (Yogg Immortals, the screenshot for Cata)?

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Old 07/01/10, 1:47 AM   #8955
ildon
Collateral Damage
 
ildon's Avatar
 
Undead Priest
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by Bornakk
Q: What happened to Frostmourne after it was shattered?
A: While this is a closely guarded secret, we'll trust you to be discreet: no one knows where the remnants of Frostmourne are now.
I think they forgot to tell this to the artist that designed the statue in the center of Dalaran, which appears to prominently display Frostmourne's broken hilt. Perhaps it's a replica.

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