Alot of the major Outlands/Northrend events are bugged at the moment, Garrosh's coming of age in Nagrand, Wrathgate, etc.

It's people who misread scenes or can't understand a character's thought process/take things out of context. It's kinda like the people who thought Sylvannis was behind the Wrathgate ambush just because the Lich King said "Sylvannis".

The Lich King said her name because he assumed she was behind it, not because she was. But a surprising amount of people couldn't actually read into that and thought that was "proof" she was behind it.

Also reading the lore thread on the previous link, half of it also seemed to come from players wishing for a inter-Orc feud.

In more interesting bit of news, Bornakk answered some questions on the Story Forum (didn't see these being discussed yet).

Also, no Med'an in Cataclysm.

More answers here:
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Ask CDev #1 Answers - Round 1

True enough about the Wrath Gate fiasco, however let's just post this dialog and open it up to the floor to decide.



A lot of us in the Alpha took this as Thrall sending Garrosh a clear message "I'm still alive," via the SI:7 Emblem, now there were a lot of ways for Thrall to say "Oh hey I'm alive Garrosh, and doing quite fine out here," but he choose specifically the SI:7 Emblem to convey this to Garrosh, which lead a lot of us to believe that Garrosh was involved somehow in SI:7 locating the Warchief, hence the reason he turned pale when he saw it, he knew immediately what it meant, SI:7 failed, Thrall is alive. The quest is called "Message for Garrosh," not just because you're delivering a message, but you're also sending one.

That was my thought process on the matter, what do the rest of you think?

Mirrors for quest dialog in the event the first image dies:

http://a.yfrog.com/img820/6928/conspiracy.png
http://a.yfrog.com/img8/6928/conspiracy.png
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...conspiracy.png

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that from the information given, but I also don't think it's something in Garrosh's character. He doesn't seem the type to resort to methods like kidnapping or assassination, and while it's not the same sort of situation as the incident in Stonetalon where he executes the Orc commander for being a dick and killing innocents, it seems like it would be extremely inconsistent when you take both events into account.

Second, while he is "visibly shaken and pale" he seems to take it in stride remarkably well for a person who's conspiracy just got turned upside-down.

I think the most likely explanation for the reaction is that it's something that Thrall and Garrosh both know about and perhaps discussed at length before Thrall departed and left Garrosh in charge, but Garrosh was dismissing it as an impossibility because he's that sort of cocky dumbass.

The story itself might just be something that we won't see coming until we get more of the story. The Shady Rest Inn comes to mind. No one really considered the Grimtotem until the patch where they revamped Dustwallow and completed the quest line. I think if Garrosh was involved and they wanted to implement him as a conspirator instead of just teasing us and letting us, they would have put a trash item in that drops from SI:7 mobs randomly that offhandedly references him, similar to how most Grimtotem quests have an item somewhere that mention Agasham (a name one letter off from being an anagram of Magatha).

Something like that seems much more likely than Garrosh selling out Thrall

It seems too radical a method for Garrosh, at first glance, but that's pretty much it. All the elements do seem to indicate that Hellscream is behind this.

1. An NPC named Kor'kron Loyalist...they're the Warchief's personal guard, it's not like they sport a whole lot of traitors in their numbers. So why the need to reinforce his loyalty? Also, Thrall mentions he's a friend. If he intended to warn Garrosh about the Alliance, he could've used any other Kor'kron. Like I said, in Horde matters, they're supposed to be trustworthy. In leadership matters, though...

2. Grins, hints of smiles, making certain that Garrosh knows it's Thrall who's sending the emblem...why? Because the Alliance is using ninjas? What a surprise, a true chance for deviousness...nah, we're dealing with something on a personal level. I also think Thrall's expression of "the new warchief" isn't accidental. It's purposefuly impersonal and cold.

3. So Garrosh, who's never really cared for Thrall, traded blows with him and disrespected all of his decisions and orders whenever possible, suddendly goes wall-white and loses his inner-ear because the Alliance does its job...not the steel-hard leader he claims to be, it seems, after all.

It's a brutal development, no doubt, but:

a) it's supposed to happen at the beginning of the storyline, which means something significant might happen that changes Garrosh's mind, at that point

b) Garrosh is more like lawful neutral or lawful evil than good. Stretching the small changes we've seen about him might end up in disappointment

c) Leaders do this kind of things, every once in a while. At least leaders with little in the way of values and morals.

- Garrosh has no need to kill Thrall, he is already the war chief.
- Thrall finds no evidence (to my knowledge) during the Goblin quests that implicates the Horde in any way.
- Past evidence has shown if Garrosh has a problem with someone, he will face them himself, man to man.

I know its cool to hate Garrosh at the moment, but looking at it logically, I don't see any real reason he would so. Were they not at war you could argue it is to incite a war so his retaliation is more justified but I think at this point they're already at all out war anyway.

Is there any indication to the time period of the starting zones in relation to each other? Is this event before or after Voljin being expelled and Cairne dying?

Is it made clear where Thrall is going and why?

That makes sense for TBC where the story unfolded one step at a time. With Cata, new characters are now starting during or post Cataclysm. That means Garrosh has already left Nagrand, so it doesn't really make sense that he should still be stood there.

Why couldn't it be something inbetween? I can't imagine Garrosh going all buddy-buddy with Human forces, either. But you know who I can imagine doing it? Grimtotems and/or Forsaken. Just because Garrosh may not be the traitor it doesn't mean that Thrall was not betrayed. Grimtotem already joined the Alliance (or will join them if levels equates time). I am just throwing Forsaken in there because Sylvannus would have an easier time controlling Garrosh than Thrall so she would benefit from this, too. I always considered Forsaken to be devious anyway. (It's not really important who did it, just that it happened.)

As for why Garrosh is shocked? It is probably because Thrall had a suspicion that not everything was kosher in their ranks and told Garrosh that. Garrosh, being his old self, handwaved it away and pretended he knew better than Thrall. Now that Thrall's suspicion is confirmed he makes sure to rub it by sending him the Insignia. Garrosh realizes that, yes, sometimes it is a good idea to listen to your seniors because they tend to be right alot - especially if they are more experienced than you.

It would also explain Garrosh's new attitude regarding Saurfang's teachings in Stonetalon. He has been humbled earlier by the Insignia delivery.

Not saying I understand Garrosh's reasons for digging this far into a pile of shit that'll most likely end up burrying him, but the fact is things seem to point to Hellscream Jr. being to blame.

How he could've done it is the easiest part:

a) If we're talking about Garrosh showing his face, I think Wrynn wouldn' deny any help in capturing Thrall, the source of the orcs' freedom and rebirth. Garrosh is a brutish warlord, Thrall raised a civilization from a bunch of prisoners...their threat levels are very different.

b) The second option, and most plausible, is for Garrosh to simply arrange for a "traitor" to warn Stormwind of Thrall's voyage and route. Thrall fields human traitors too, as shown in Rise of the Horde, so no reason for Varian not to use them. It's a simple matter for Garrosh to get someone to pass a traitor and feed his information to the Alliance.

The Horde's history includes such notable and murderous figures as Gul'dan, who had Durotan cut to pieces; Doomhammer, who thrashed Blackhand and left only Gul'dan alive; Grom Hellscream and other warlords, who killed their peers whenever asked. Garrosh is like these guys, not like Thrall.

Yes, I think this is a risky gesture for Blizzard to attribute to Garrosh. All I'm saying is it seems his doing, and that's why I'm trying to find reasons for this. I wouldn't have had Garrosh do this, if I called the shots, that's for sure.

Having read that quest dialogue now, I can easily see why people would make the Garrosh/Thrall connection.

There are good points brought up: Thrall wants you to deliver the message to Garrosh, he has you meet someone loyal to Thrall, and Garrosh quickly changes the subject after having a rare reaction.

One thing to consider is that Garrosh likely would not have directly gone to SI:7 and said "lol Thrall is on this boat, get him lol". We know Blizzard watches movies or shows. They could have easily taken a que from "Rome" on HBO and threw in some political intrigue. Thrall being captured would work into Garrosh's hands.

1) Garrosh has a third party leak information re: Thrall's whereabouts. This could be accomplished very easily...a drunk orc soldier in a bar where they know SI:7 agents are known to frequent talking to his buddy. They wouldn't need to tell SI:7 directly, just make sure they overhear it.

2) SI:7 captures Thrall

3) With Thrall captured, not only does Garrosh's status as Warchief get cemented, but he also gains a huge political token: The Alliance captured Thrall. Not only does this give him an excellent reason to start pushing an assault vs. the Alliance, but it also would help unite the fracturing Horde given the respect Thrall holds with them.

4) Garrosh believes they can win vs. the Alliance. With the Alliance crushed and Thrall rescued, Garrosh would hope that the Horde would not only support himself due to his "military prowess", but there might be a possibility that Thrall might admit that the Alliance went too far. Or better yet, Thrall is killed during the war and serves as a "Martyr" for Garrosh's cause.

It's possible, but we would need to see ALOT more in-game information to lend more credence to this hypothesis. I'm on the fence pending further info, although moments like Garrosh doing a Sparta vs. that orc that dropped the nuke make you wonder if they will actually go that route (ie, Garrosh as a scheming villain)