World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 609

Axanor · 07/14/10, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Fnar

Given that they have simply flooded the entire Deathwing Scar zone, it seems more likely that they decided the zone was too much work/not working out how they had hoped so they scrapped it and just used the Maelstrom instead, think AN

I think gameplay balance might have been behind this change. That area of the Eastern Kingdoms is a pretty big hike for Horde players. (And all for a zone that's just a portal to Deepholm.)

Fnar · 07/14/10, 11:29 AM

Good point, playing as primarily alliance I hadn't considered that, then again, Uldum is a mighty trek for alliance ~10min on flightpath from Darnassus to Cenarion Hold in Silithus so I imagine Darnassus->Uldum would be similar, I doubt the flight time from Undercity to Deathwing Scar would have been so severe, think SW to Chillwind (EPL) is about 7 mins...

I do think you are most likely correct though

Entropie · 07/14/10, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Fnar

Good point, playing as primarily alliance I hadn't considered that, then again, Uldum is a mighty trek for alliance ~10min on flightpath from Darnassus to Cenarion Hold in Silithus so I imagine Darnassus->Uldum would be similar, I doubt the flight time from Undercity to Deathwing Scar would have been so severe, think SW to Chillwind (EPL) is about 7 mins...

I do think you are most likely correct though

I believe the portal to the Caverns of Time is still there, which trivialises the trek.

While we might never know the real motives, I do think they wanted to incorporate the Maelstrom at some point in time and apparently this was the best solution.

Exemplar · 07/14/10, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Fnar

Good point, playing as primarily alliance I hadn't considered that, then again, Uldum is a mighty trek for alliance ~10min on flightpath from Darnassus to Cenarion Hold in Silithus so I imagine Darnassus->Uldum would be similar, I doubt the flight time from Undercity to Deathwing Scar would have been so severe, think SW to Chillwind (EPL) is about 7 mins...

I do think you are most likely correct though

Portals directly to Caverns of Time make the hike to Silithus (much less Uldum) infinitesimal since late BC.

If they're just going to teleport people directly to Thrall to enter Deepholme the first time, anyhow, then its actual physical location is somewhat unimportant. I get the impression after the first visit you can shortcut (Org/SW?) directly to Deepholme without passing Go or collecting $200. No effective travel time for any visits.

While locations painful to one faction or the other haven't stopped them in the past, they do constantly seem to be trying to make a kinder and gentler experience for the casual player. Avoiding extremely long travel is reasonable - they did give the IoQD flightplan shortcuts back in BC.

While the new location makes some sense - the Maelstrom is a weak point in the world after the Well collapsed - it also seems really odd. Are the Naga accidentally falling into Deepholme if they wander too far outside their cities? It's almost on their doorstep. Also kinda puts a crimp in any future Maelstrom-related X-pac plans, if the Maelstrom also equals entrance to Deepholme. Names like "Fury Just Outside of The Maelstrom" don't exactly roll off the tongue. If they don't plan on an X-pac related to the Maelstrom, what happens to Azshara, since they stated she's not a boss in Cata? She's one of very few remaining developed villains.

Finally, I thought the bottom of the Maelstrom was a link to the elemental water plane after the Sundering. So it's now a link to two planes, somehow?

Entropie · 07/14/10, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

Finally, I thought the bottom of the Maelstrom was a link to the elemental water plane after the Sundering. So it's now a link to two planes, somehow?

There is only a single elemental 'plane', composed of the 4 elemental parts.

"The Elemental Plane is a three-tiered realm.[7] This plane created by the titans is spherical and comparatively small — about the size of a single world.[7]" source on wowwiki, which has it from the RPG books.

As I said, I think they are skipping the whole 'Maelstrom' expansion, or actually: Cataclysm is the planned Maelstrom expansion. It has the elemental planes, the Maelstrom and Vashj'ir, she will appear -briefly- in that zone as well. I think the fact that she's one of the very few remaining developed villains, is exactly the reason they will save her a bit.

NukeTemp · 07/14/10, 12:30 PM

Najztar and Azshara are underneath the Maelstrom, so it wouldn't affect them at all. Besides Nazjatar is just one zone. The rest of the likely islands zones such as Zandalar, Broken Isles, Kul'Tiras, etc wouldnt be affected at all. You wouldnt need to visit or even see the surface area of the Maelstrom at all to get to Nazjatar. Just hop in a sub and enjoy the ride for example.

Also, keep in mind that the small Maelstrom subzone currently in the game could just be instanced for Cataclysm. In other words, when you get to 82 or whatever, you go to stormwind, take the port to the current Maelstrom with Thrall and the whole event. Then you go into Deepholm, etc etc. Then once you reach 88-89 or whatever in whichever expansion you go to Nazjatar, you take a port again to the Maelstrom, but it's phased differently. No thrall, no crazy fiery deepholm rift since its been repaired, etc etc. Instead, just a bunch of alliance/horde ships and subs ready to take you down into Nazjatar.

Or even better, maybe in a future expansion, the Maelstrom is gone all together, and instead Nazjatar is raised to the surface by Azshara with Neptulon's Trident. That can easily be done with phasing. In fact, maybe that's why Blizzard did change the Deepholm entrance to the Maelstrom, because they want to give players a chance to see it before it does go away.

Also, keep in mind that the current Maelstrom subzone isn't part of the actual game world afaik. Its an instanced very big room with a skybox somewhere, since you cant actually get there in the live world by flying and instead must get ported there. Same thing with Deepholm itself.

MizarAlcor · 07/14/10, 1:23 PM

Originally, wasn't Maelstrom a remnant of the explosion of the Well of Eternity, and as such, was connected to the Twisting Nether instead of the Elemental Planes?

Kaejin · 07/14/10, 1:31 PM

Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg

Looks an awful lot like Deathwing himself. It appears that someone is trying to infuse dragons with the same kind of power that caused Deathwing to go mad. The burning blood splitting open the skin, the adamantium plates in place to hold everything together, the metal... blindfold to keep it from getting a sensory overload and going on a rampage.

Someone is interested in mass-producing Deathwings. Possibly Deathwing himself, but we don't really know who's in charge of Blackwing Descent yet.

http://www.worldofraids.com/uploads/...3_17_72837.jpg

Also it looks like we know what the guard detail that went with Thrall was for. I don't see Garrosh sending any of the regular Horde army out to give him a hand, so it seems reasonable that Thrall would bring along his most loyal soldiers to help get things in order and do some errands for the Earthen Ring and the good of the world, rather than go about killing the Alliance for the conquest of Kalimdor.

Exemplar · 07/14/10, 2:13 PM

Makes one wonder what Varian (or that guy standing in the shadows twirling his mustache and directing SI:7 to no good ends) was thinking in trying to abduct Thrall.

"Yes, let's kidnap Thrall and prevent him from stabilizing or closing a great big hole in the world. A hole threatening to destroy the world or at least suck its oceans dry."

That's like kidnapping Tugg Speedman before he could save the world in Scorcher 6!

Leviathon · 07/14/10, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

Makes one wonder what Varian (or that guy standing in the shadows twirling his mustache and directing SI:7 to no good ends) was thinking in trying to abduct Thrall.

"Yes, let's kidnap Thrall and prevent him from stabilizing or closing a great big hole in the world. A hole threatening to destroy the world or at least suck its oceans dry."

That's like kidnapping Tugg Speedman before he could save the world in Scorcher 6!

We don't know the full story about what happened yet or if Varian was even part of it and it's possible it may have been a plot by the Twilight Hammer. Deepholm has a good example of this with how the Alliance airship shot down the Hordes but we find out that all the Alliance soldiers were killed by Twilight Infiltrators.

Kaejin · 07/14/10, 6:01 PM

I think the Twilight's Hammer being behind it is the most likely explanation. There are relatively few people who hate their enemy so much that they would risk the destruction of their own world just to kill them. The Twilight's Hammer, on the other hand, have the world's destruction in mind with pretty much everything they do.

Kidnapped Thrall and stopping the Storm's Fury are both things that, despite being at war with the Horde, have a very negative impact on the Alliance and really only benefit the Twilight's Hammer.

The real issue is how they managed to manipulate the SI:7, a legitimate assassin and spy organization. If they function as an intelligence agency, it seems like a major slip on their part.

Surgie · 07/14/10, 7:18 PM

How much time is supposed to have passed between leaving Kezan and the Lost Isles quests? It seems like they followed each other fairly quickly, in which case Thrall would likely have already been captured when the Cataclysm began.

Tinwhisker · 07/14/10, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Kaejin

The real issue is how they managed to manipulate the SI:7, a legitimate assassin and spy organization. If they function as an intelligence agency, it seems like a major slip on their part.

It might just be Twilight Hammer cultists disguised as SI:7. If SI:7 is supposed to be a top notch organization could they really be thwarted by a few low level goblins? It's probably more likely that it was your run of the mill inept cultists who were disguised that way to create confusion as a secondary objective if their primary goal failed (which it did). And it would appear that it worked, after all, we're all pointing fingers at the Alliance when we should be worried about Deathwing.

Leviathon · 07/14/10, 11:10 PM

Now that the realm crashing has subsided I managed to go to less finished areas and see if anything was added. First they 'uninstanced' a part of Quel'thalas which you can see in the distance but by the looks of it they will leave invisible walls around northern Lordaeron and that stuff is just there to create a illusion that it's there.

A questline was added for Stratholme in EPL which mentions a new Rivendare and Balnazzars new army.

dustdog · 07/15/10, 2:17 AM

Is this saying that storyline wise, we killed Dathrohan (fall of the Crusade), and Balanzaar released him before his death, ala Mal'Ganis or something?