I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be construed as a humorous coincidence. It's kind of ridiculous that a footbomb exploding on the side of the volcano is going to set it off.


I'm very curious about the Alliance side of the battle for Andorhal. There's a video on YouTube of the Horde side, which ends in the Horde conquering the city and Koltira getting himself in trouble with Sylvanas for being ineffectual. Sylvanas also mentions that the Undercity also apparently has a basement (unless I'm misinterpreting what "beneath the Undercity" means). Unfortunately the Horde side leaves you with unanswered questions. Is it canon? Did the Alliance really suffer a conclusive defeat at Andorhal? What exactly happens to Thassarian? Why did Lurid have to end up like that?

Poor Lurid.

I hope its canon, it wouldn't make much sense if both versions end up with their respected factions holding Andorhal

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Kayoss/517.jpg
http://runaan.shaiex.net/pictures/wp...punishment.jpg
http://runaan.shaiex.net/pictures/wp...ine/broken.jpg

credit to Eagan for the screenshots

I would suggest anyone to watch the videos rather than read any posts about it. Everything I've read makes it seem like Sylvanas just kind of up and kidnaps Koltira because she's being a greedy or something. After watching the video it's clear it's more about him being ineffectual and that he was supposed to be leading the Forsaken there as an official part of the Forsaken army rather than a representative of the Ebon Blade like he was in WotLK. It doesn't make the abduction and apparent brainwashing any less unnerving, but motives are important.

I'm really eager to find out what's below Undercity. Sylvanas seems to have acquired a lot of interesting things recently.

Might I suggest the Scourgificator du jour? A series of flavours of rusted Abomination weapons to the face, followed by Val'kyr mind-screwing. Guaranteed to erase all traces of *ach!* honor, sensibility or feelings.

10 000 000 Scourge troops can't be wrong.

Must stress this. The MMO-Champ posts really made her look like a psychotic powermonger. She remains powerhungry and rather evil, but she has yet to lose her ruthless but efficient streak to idiotic evil (in games pure evil tends to end up as idiotic, see LK). I actually like this event a lot more than her previous actions. This really underlines her previous behaviour in the other expansions/vanilla. She doesn't change, only her weapons do.

Another thing that helps a lot, is that we can now safely remove her as a Lich Queen. She has no control of any Forsaken. They are all free. She has the player use the Val'kyr to cham (read: mind control) the new Forsaken to fight. I'm sure they would fight for her regardless, considering their wake up comments (I am death, I am Forsaken etc), but clearly they aren't good enough yet, nor fanatical enough.

All the setting her up for death or villain action later... it is still there, but Blizzard hasn't sent her too far down that road yet. She can still stop and argue her points enough to make even Thrall fume but accept it as long as she doesn't continue it (past defeating her enemies). That doesnt' change her actions, but it is sneaky and sly. The main characteristics of her.
Also she is politically bright here. She removes an obstacle to her forces, Koltira. He is the one to hamper the Horde/Forsaken, while he is 100% aligned with it. She doesn't quasi go to war with the Ebon Blades, they have already broken up more or less. She has every right to 'reeducate' him. What she does to him might not be however. I love that kind of linewalking, and I am beginning to have a fair bit of hope for Garrosh. He might just become a character I like based on this (he isn't now, nor have I seen enough pointing to that yet).

By the way, given the 'betrayal' of Thassarian toward Koltira, I'm certain that is the Alliance player and a character similar to Sylvanas on their side. The two Death Knights wouldn't fight... They are supposed to be the 'poor guys caught in the middle' types here. Eventhough they are anything but poor, but their conversation clearly convey a feeling of regret in fighting.
But I suppose that if Thassarian did backstab Koltira it would make for some heavy faction rage. "You evil types ress undeads to fight us." "You backstab and never plan to keep agreements, liars." I can already see it now.

I might've missed that, but how exactly did Thassarian betray Kolthira? By attacking the Bulwark? That's hardly a betrayal, they'd both agreed on the inevitability of having to fight each other, let alone carry on with the war.

On Sylvannas, I'll have to disagree with you, Exemplar, on her lack of megalomania. Here we have a leader who's been betrayed by quite a good deal of her fanatical (most if not all the Forsaken are said to view Sylvannas in this manner) subjects using her own plague. She came close to being killed, then demoted, and was given a second/last chance, something reinforced by her city being full or armoured guards.

What does she do with her second chance? Well, she disobeys direct orders, by using the same plague that nearly sparked another inter-faction war and goes on to adopt the previous arch-villain's methods - and showcase them right in front of her superior.

Now she's putting them to full use, raising new Forsaken. The problem is, her current subjects like her because their share a common tragedy, most of all, and because of her leadership. These new, Val'kyr-raised Forsaken...given that they retain their memories (unless the solution for that is what she's using for Kolthira), I don't see how they'll follow the psychobitch who gassed them without betraying her asap.

Megalomania:
1. A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence.

It's all there, really. For her to play this close to these many fires (Garrosh, the Alliance, the new Forsaken), she must be pretty convinced nothing bad can happen to her royal behind. Either that or she has a Xanatos Gambit. She doesn't, most likely.

PS: Don't take me posting the definition the wrong way. I wasn't aware that delusions of omnipotence were part of the "symptoms".

I wouldn't call it megalomania. And I don't think anyone could 'demote' her. The Horde are rallied under one flag, and you need 1 general-commander for that. But no one in the Horde - especially not outside the Forsaken - can 'demote' Sylvanas as absolute ruler of the Forsaken. She rules by example, by sheer reverance, not by arbitary power. The Horde needs her, she(they) need(s) the horde. This also explains her so-called 'megalomania'. Everything she does - especially now Arthas is gone - is safeguard the Forsaken. Anyone who threatens the Forsaken shall be 'removed', one way or the other. It isn't a matter of thinking you can get away with something, it's a matter of eat or be eaten. And the whole world wants to 'eat' the Forsaken. You know it, they know it, she knows it. These are the fundamental things to consider when talking about Sylvanas and the Forsaken.

The Forsaken are part of one of the biggest military forces in Azeroth. A solid part (if taken with skepticism) - so long as they act respectfully. That's a big exception in a whole world wanting to kill them.

Two running ideas sound wrong to me about Forsaken and Sylvannas:

1. That the whole world wants to pave their front entrance with the Forsaken's heads. The Alliance clearly hates them, but then no more than they hate orcs or blood elves. Forsaken are risen abherrations in the eyes of a human, sure, but orcs are malformed greenskins. As for the rest of the world, they probably couldn't care less about the Forsaken. Not any more than they do the other races, for sure.

2. The Horde can't lay a finger on Sylvannas. If they kill or remove her, the Forsaken go away and the Horde will be at a disadvantage. First things first: Sylvannas' forces' deployment is dependant on a single factor, the Forsaken's goals and interests. Unlike Orcs, Trolls and Tauren, she doesn't think of The Horde. Rather, the Horde is her safety insurance, and even the occasions in which she joins forces with the other races are diplomacy moves or, in Northrend's case, made out of revenge against Arthas. So it's not like the Forsaken represents much more of an advantage than in numbers, right now. Not saying they aren't useful when they act, but there's some reason for Garrosh to have ordered Sylvannas to take Gilneas by herself.

As to the Horde being lost without the Forsaken...hardly. Territories would be lost, sure, but we're talking about a not-so-big number of forces, in the bigger picture. And complete anihilation by the Alliance would still be impossible.

A much more dire situation would be the Forsaken being left alone. I can see Wrynn (and Greymane) going straight for them. So, between a faction that loses men and land, and a race that gets "extinct", who's really risking more?

PS: Maybe he'd have done it faster a few months ago, but I don't think Garrosh would really have that big a problem with beating the crap out of Sylvannas if she keeps mocking him and the Horde - oh, and crossing the line.

Edit: Oh, and make no mistake, Sylvannas is incomparibly better to hate than Garrosh. Let's hope future character development is as good as this.

There has been some new abomination creation on her part though, as doesn't the 2.0 Abomination design shows up in the invasion of Gilneas? From what we saw in ICC, Rotface and Festergut were the only two functioning examples of that type, and even then good chance they were working prototypes. Somehow the plans for the new abomination had to escape ICC. Maybe one of the undead Gnome Scientists, or anyone who worked in the Plagueworks, fled and used the plans to batter sanctuary from Sylvanus? She would not be one to turn down a new weapon that landed on her doorstep.

Makes you wonder just how many things she has managed to incorporate from the Scourge after Arthas died.

Really wish we could get an Alliance perspective on this, and the Southern Barrens quest lines. Seems all the previews are Horde side so far.

They had an agreement as friends that they would face each other in combat and one of them would die. Words weren't spoken as such, but you can feel the undertones of their conversation. The intent was for them to build up each side's power and then have a big climactic battle, winner takes all. Koltira and Thassarian have a bromance going on and they both agree that fighting each other to the death would be the best end to their friendship.

The perceived "betrayal" is that the Alliance ended up making a preemptive strike with militia, and Thassarian fled the battle without facing Koltira. We obviously don't know the real story since the Alliance quest line is apparently bugged, but that's the way it looks to Koltira.

I think, depending on what exactly Sylvanas does to Koltira, we could see him coming back frothing at the mouth and demanding Thassarian's head for betraying him, despite whether or not a betrayal actually took place.



Anyway, as far as the comment made about the Ebon Blade breaking up, that's definitely not supported by anything I've seen or heard so far. Koltira and Thassarian were working sort of like liaisons for their factions and the Ebon Blade in WotLK, but now that they've (apparently) fully pledged their loyalty to their factions, that hardly means that every DK has done similar. The Ebon Blade sent plenty of reps to the Horde and Alliance (Koltira, Thassarian, the players), but they also kept plenty for their own ranks. There's no reason to believe that they disbanded and forced the knights that may have had no intention of going back to their faction to do so. Like the Argent Crusade, they have other fish to fry. Arthas may be gone, but we all know who created the Lich King. Besides, the Argent Crusade and the Ebon Blade have great chemistry.