World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 620

dustdog · 08/04/10, 12:33 PM

United may not be the right word, as far as I can remember, they were minions under the Old Gods. It doesn't really seem that they serve him anymore, especially with the Twilight Hammer trying to start a war between the Water and Fire elementals on Azeroth. Contradictory evidence exists though, with Ragnaros teaming with Nefarian in Hyjal and the Abyssal High Council communicating with the Twilight Hammer.

Maybe they've wrested control over the fire elementals again?

Kirion · 08/04/10, 1:13 PM

Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg

To go with the newest fashion: my understanding is that the elements (fire, water, etc) are a bit like an Overmind of sorts, to high and distant from mortal affairs, but having personality - they seem to value respect a great deal - although a transcendent one. Elemental Lords, on the other hand, would be like Kerrigan. They're the field commanders. As the "higher powers" never step on the field, I'd say most elementals would obey their respective Elemental Lord immediately.

Not the best source, but Warcraft RPG (and wowwiki) says this:

Elemental Lords have the power to take control over specific elementals of their own type, but only when those elementals are within the area of its divine presence. This ability does not work on primal or elder elementals. All smaller elementals will obey their Lord unquestioningly. Larger ones usually do also, but should they wish to resist the Lieutenant's commands, they may attempt to do so, but it is unlikely for that to happen. The Elemental Lord can also break another being's control of a summoned or enchanted elemental; those who have control over the elemental will have a difficult time maintaining control. Should the controller maintain command of the elemental, the Elemental Lord may not make another attempt to control or command that elemental for one full day.
Whenever a spell is cast of the same magic type within the area of the Lord's presence, it becomes instantly aware, and can take control of the magic as he wishes. The spell can be countered, transfered to another target or area, or reflected back at the caster. This ability also functions against elemental spell-like abilities employed by other creatures, elementals or otherwise, with the sole exception of those used by creatures more powerful than the Elemental Lord. In much the same vein, the Elemental Lords can exert their control over magical items which employ spell or spell-like abilities, with the sole exception of those imbued within major artifacts.

Bierzkrieg · 08/04/10, 1:35 PM

So there it is, anyone other than an Elemental Lord (or other members of elemental royalty) wanting to control elementals might have to resort to harsher methods, like said shackles. Again, I'm referring to Twilight "shamans" (they might be too disrespectful of the elements to be called so).

Of course, this raises the question: what about Alliance and Horde shamans? Should we assume a lvl.85 shaman has enough "rep" with the elements to assure their cooperation?

Fnar · 08/04/10, 1:46 PM

I guess that our shaman in game are seen as friends and companions to the elements, they are unable to force the elements to do their bidding (Thrall asks for help he does not demand it) but for gameplay reasons these requests are never denied.

Exemplar · 08/04/10, 2:07 PM

Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg

Of course, this raises the question: what about Alliance and Horde shamans? Should we assume a lvl.85 shaman has enough "rep" with the elements to assure their cooperation?

My understanding is that most Shamanistic interaction works with very, very basic elementals. Think babies in your earlier analogy. I think it's plausible to say either A) if a Lord like Ragnaros told one to stop working with you, its short memory would cause it to start obeying your suggestions again almost immediately or B) there are so many that if Ragnaros told one to stop working with you, you could entice another almost immediately. Therefore, for gameplay purposes, Elemental Lords won't stop Shamans doing their thing.

Also - don't expect school-immune mobs in Cata. Blizzard has stated they dislike them, because it causes class/spec balance issues. Classic example was forcing Mages to Frost for MC, since Fire was immune and Arcane (at the time) was useless. Once out of MC the mage went back to Fire, as it was superior everywhere else.

Since partial resist is apparently removed, there shouldn't be issues with mobs taking less than normal damage from an element (again possibly causing the "best" spec to drop below the "other" spec only in a specific element-based instance). Conversely there shouldn't be extra damage for counter types - i.e. fire spells shouldn't hurt a water/frost elemental more than normal, again for balance reasons.

Camaris · 08/04/10, 5:18 PM

Originally Posted by Fnar

I guess that our shaman in game are seen as friends and companions to the elements, they are unable to force the elements to do their bidding (Thrall asks for help he does not demand it) but for gameplay reasons these requests are never denied.

Probably something like this. But I suppose mages really do 'enslave' their water elementals, as opposes to asking for their help. Perhaps similar to how warlocks summon demons.

Monocle · 08/04/10, 8:31 PM

Didn't we get an explanation for the Goblin Shamans too, that they are basically making deals with them and bargaining for help? I can see a Goblin Shammy giving something like some rare wood to a Fire Elemental so it can enter a contract of mutual agreement in regards to assisting the Goblin.

Nathanyel · 08/05/10, 1:21 AM

Took me a while to find it >_<
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Ask CDev #1 Answers - Round 1

Q: Could you please explain the lore behind goblin shamans? Goblins do not seem like a particularly spiritual race, especially one that would care about the elements (as evidenced by the Venture Co.).
A: Goblin shaman are an extension of their society's single-minded devotion to making a profit; to a goblin shaman, elementals are potential customers. Goblins do tend to be a bit more forceful in their negotiations than the other shamanic races (especially the tauren) would like, though they are far less forceful than what we've seen from the taunka in Northrend. (Unless the elemental tries to weasel out of its contract. Elementals tend not to have breakable knees, so goblins sometimes have to resort to other methods of control.) As for the goblins' "mechanical" totems, note that these are merely physical manifestations of the small totems they tinker/craft to form a link with the elemental spirits. Instead of lugging around large totems, goblin shaman have a ring (probably the same ring on which they keep their house and motorbike keys) with small totems they've built as conduits for the elemental spirits they do business with.

Fnar · 08/05/10, 3:16 AM

So i guess Orc, Tauren, Troll, Dwarf and Draenei shaman ask for the help and support of the elements, Goblin shaman remind the elements of the penalty clauses in their contracts and of their intention to enforce said contracts to the letter.

Bierzkrieg · 08/05/10, 4:45 AM

Might be morning numbness, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure what it is that goblins offer the elements (and elementals) that puts them so far apart from the other races. To my knowledge, them living, sentient whirlwinds have no pockets in which to store coins. But I'll stick with "halfway between tauren and taunka methods".

While it'll hardly have an effect ingame, I assume The Shattering will show us how much of a hellpit being a shaman has become. Elementals tend to be erratic - or savage, at least - but if they appear to a shaman, one assumes they'll obey (unless you summon Ragnaros, like that stupid dwarf did). But then we see Thrall summoning a little flaming guy and him going all evil-junkie on the most powerful shaman around. It'd actually be kind of awesome to see Blizzard translate this situation in-game.

You've probably seen her already, but Blizzard is being true to that lorepiece that says Ysera is almost Alexstrasza's twin (in human form, I assume).

Job well done. Now we just wait for the dragon form to match it.

Ratek · 08/05/10, 7:28 AM

Ysera is most deservedly gorgeous, but her arms... Those sticks and her gauntlets don't match up at all. Her eyes... Shouldn't they be closed? Or is this one of those really few occations?
But I love the Nelf/Belf hybrid they have created. And of course she wears a Druid set shoulders, only fitting.

Nathanyel · 08/05/10, 9:10 AM

That moon headpiece is how druid T8 should've looked, instead of that "L on the forehead"

Bierzkrieg · 08/05/10, 11:11 AM

@Ratek: A blue has stated that Ysera will be keeping her eyes wide open come Cataclysm.

Blayze · 08/05/10, 11:46 AM

Ysera can assume the form of a female from any race, which she chooses depending on whom she is talking to. Often she wears a dress of emerald green, emerald jewellery, and has emerald-green hair.
Ysera avoids and dislikes combat, especially in her realm. When angered, she is terrible, paranoid and impulsive. She keeps herself isolated in the Eye of Ysera within the Emerald Dream, and is rarely seen in the real world. When she does visit the living plane, she shapeshifts into a humanoid form, covered by a green hood, and her eyes are always closed.

Where's the hood? I get that she wouldn't always wear the dress and jewellery, but it was a stretch for even Alexstrasza to be dressed like an exotic dancer catering to a LARPer audience.

Bierzkrieg · 08/05/10, 12:02 PM

Can't blame a wise, ancient being to have learned how best to get the attention of all the testosterone-driven adventurers.

PS: Females included. We're just that great.

PS2: Actually, I think you're right. I like the looks of her model, but perhaps something more in tune with Ysera's supposed quiet and secretive nature would've been better.