World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 625

Exemplar · 08/11/10, 9:20 AM

Darkshore developer chat has confirmed that Soggoth is a (powerful) minion of the Old Gods, not the next Old God. The Master's Glaive apparently is his main body. Based on location he's most likely tied to the Stonetalon Old God. I'm actually finally feeling a degree of power from Old Gods (other than mental manipulation) if they have servants like Soggoth who, while their own body is out of commission, are controlling lesser bodies (Avatar of Soggoth).

It's like RotJ (not the prequels) - the Emperor has to be a badass, because Darth F-ing Vader works for him.

Soggoth actually feels powerful, not just the next domino to knock over.

Kaejin · 08/11/10, 1:20 PM

I'm finally curious enough to ask about this.

What do the current beta testers here know about the Horde's alliance with the Dragonmaw? I imagine since Twilight Highlands isn't finished that not a lot has been revealed, but I doubt I'm the only one here who has heard about fel orcs being in the Horde in Cata and a lot of other garbage. Supposedly some are at the Dark Portal (Azeroth side) standing guard and there are various screen shots of them at Thrallmar with Thrallmar tabards on.

I have mixed feelings about even entertaining the thought, but at this point I'm just tired of not having some sort of definitive answer.

That you can't find anyone talking about this besides a few posts on MMO-champion's forums with terrible screen shots (MMO-champion lore posts are about the least reliable things I can think of), and this one small thread on the Cata forums is what makes to hard to come to a final conclusion regarding this. The video from that thread is about the only thing giving me pause.

The most ridiculous stuff is about Thrallmar staffed with fel orcs and Nazgrel being forced to drink demon blood or something. Jesse Cox recently made a video where he checked Thrallmar out and found nothing out of the ordinary because of these claims but my friend keeps telling me that it was supposedly part of a quest line that ends up phasing Thrallmar or something.

Shabadu · 08/11/10, 2:28 PM

There's old Second War era camps of black skinned Dragonmaw, IE separated from the Fel Orc Dragonmaw in Twilight Highlands. There's a small flotilla of Horde ships outside the largest Dragonmaw camp, but the breadcrumbs aren't in so there's no way to initiate quest chains to see what and why they go from being neutral to Horde affiliated. There are also a few fel orcs in the camp as guards, but it's unclear why.

Leviathon · 08/11/10, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

Darkshore developer chat has confirmed that Soggoth is a (powerful) minion of the Old Gods, not the next Old God. The Master's Glaive apparently is his main body. Based on location he's most likely tied to the Stonetalon Old God. I'm actually finally feeling a degree of power from Old Gods (other than mental manipulation) if they have servants like Soggoth who, while their own body is out of commission, are controlling lesser bodies (Avatar of Soggoth).

It's like RotJ (not the prequels) - the Emperor has to be a badass, because Darth F-ing Vader works for him.

Soggoth actually feels powerful, not just the next domino to knock over.

There is no Old God in Stonetalon and the thing you kill there is just another Harbinger like Soggoth. We don't know where the actual Old God of this expansion is but it may very well be the Maelstrom Old God.

Originally Posted by Kaejin

I'm finally curious enough to ask about this.

What's do the current beta testers here know about the Horde's alliance with the Dragonmaw? I imagine since Twilight Highlands isn't finished that not a lot has been revealed, but I doubt I'm the only one here who has heard about fel orcs being in the Horde in Cata and a lot of other garbage. Supposedly some are at the Dark Portal (Azeroth side) standing guard and there are various screen shots of them at Thrallmar with Thrallmar tabards on.

I have mixed feelings about even entertaining the thought, but at this point I'm just tired of not having some sort of definitive answer.

That you can't find anyone talking about this besides a few posts on MMO-champion's forums with terrible screen shots (MMO-champion lore posts are about the least reliable things I can think of), and this one small thread on the Cata forums is what makes to hard to come to a final conclusion regarding this. The video from that thread is about the only thing giving me pause.

The most ridiculous stuff is about Thrallmar staffed with fel orcs and Nazgrel being forced to drink demon blood or something. Jesse Cox recently made a video where he checked Thrallmar out and found nothing out of the ordinary because of these claims but my friend keeps telling me that it was supposedly part of a quest line that ends up phasing Thrallmar or something.

The Fel Orcs are not part of the Horde. The images you saw were from the pre-phased Dragonmaw Port which is controlled by the Outland Dragonmaw prior to the Horde taking it over and here is the dialogue in the files right now:

Warlord Mor'ghor: The fury courses through my veins! Behold the future of the Dragonmaw!

Warlord Mor'ghor: Face me here coward!

Warlord Mor'ghor: This pathetic revolution ends now!

Warlord Zaela: Mor'ghor, you should of stayed in Outland with the rest of your half demon scum! There's no place for you here!

Warlord Mor'ghor (Death): Zaela! Traitorous fool, have you sold your soul to the Horde!? Are you and I so different? Cast your lot with Hellscream then....see where he takes you....

Warlord Zaela: Where the Horde takes us we will keep our heads high and our blood pure! Good riddance Mor'ghor, A NEW DRAGONMAW DAWNS THIS DAY!

Garrosh: Ah there she is, the Battlemaiden of the Dragonmaw. Let me see your face.

Warlord Zaela: Hellscream, I am Zaela of the Dragonmaw. Your people have freed mine from tyranny. We are your instrument, the strength of the Dragonmaw is yours to command! For the Horde!

Garrosh: Blood and honor hero the Horde welcomes you! Your people will be put to the test as we obliterate Twilight's Hammer and lay claim to this distant shore! But first...some unfinished business (he's talking about the Alliance which he attacks initially when first sailing to the Highlands).

Krixooks · 08/11/10, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Leviathon

The Fel Orcs are not part of the Horde. The images you saw were from the pre-phased Dragonmaw Port which is controlled by the Outland Dragonmaw prior to the Horde taking it

So Mor'ghor wasn't killed by Illidan after he failed to recognise us disguised as a Fel Orc on Netherwing Ledge...
It's really great to see Blizzard using these characters again, and keeping to the plot, Zuluhed was definitely killed by us and the Netherwing then.

Garrosh: Ah there she is, the Battlemaiden of the Dragonmaw. Let me see your face.

Warlord Zaela: Hellscream, I am Zaela of the Dragonmaw. Your people have freed mine from tyranny. We are your instrument, the strength of the Dragonmaw is yours to command! For the Horde!

So her name is Warlord Zaela, I was asking about her back on page 369.

Do we think she is the daughter of Nek'rosh Skullcrusher? Is she a potential love interest for Garrosh?

dustdog · 08/12/10, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Krixooks

So Mor'ghor wasn't killed by Illidan after he failed to recognise us disguised as a Fel Orc on Netherwing Ledge...

Canonically(sp?) speaking, that storyline probably ends after Zuluheds death.

e - Illidan doesn't actually kill Mor'ghor, only threatens him with a fate worse than death should he fail to kill the infiltrator. They could play the storyline off as after seeing the infiltrator flee on Yarzil's back, they chose to flee as well while Illidan was preoccupied with Akama and Maiev. Perhaps not something a fel orc would ordinarily do, but it's better than the alternative.

Nathanyel · 08/12/10, 1:39 AM

Well Leviathon provided a very good intro, just want to add there's also a Dragonmaw NPC in the Valley of Honor inn: http://i35.tinypic.com/2nw27sx.jpg

Probably just a random NPC and not related to the EK Dragonmaw joining the Horde, but his dialogue sounds interesting, of only to lore nerds.

Ukerric · 08/12/10, 9:04 AM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

Darkshore developer chat has confirmed that Soggoth is a (powerful) minion of the Old Gods, not the next Old God.

That's to be expected. Shoggoths (with added 'h') were Elder gods constructs, employed in various engineering tasks.

(of course the Shoggoths are amorphous tar-like blobs, not ammonite-headed humanoids. Methinks the Old Gods use far too many humanoids)

Bierzkrieg · 08/12/10, 9:51 AM

@Ukerric: The mountain-sized shellfish and their friend, the city-swallowing octupus from Vash'ir would like a word with you. =)

Ratek · 08/12/10, 12:12 PM

I am not in the Beta, and I haven't seen anything in this tread or elsewhere, what is the tyrrany the Dragonmaw has suffered under? I'm asking because Zaela appears like a Thrall Horde commander, which then begs the question, why hasn't the Dragonmaw approached the Horde? If only for some low level diplomatic relations or rejections of each other.
If the new Dragonmaw leadership is so honourable or 'good', then it is hard to perpetuate a story that the Dragonmaw thought the Horde weak for various reasons (who was stronger etc etc).
If they have been under the thumb of someone 'evil', then it could be understood to an extent. But I hope to hear more about this.

Leviathon · 08/12/10, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ratek

I am not in the Beta, and I haven't seen anything in this tread or elsewhere, what is the tyrrany the Dragonmaw has suffered under? I'm asking because Zaela appears like a Thrall Horde commander, which then begs the question, why hasn't the Dragonmaw approached the Horde? If only for some low level diplomatic relations or rejections of each other.
If the new Dragonmaw leadership is so honourable or 'good', then it is hard to perpetuate a story that the Dragonmaw thought the Horde weak for various reasons (who was stronger etc etc).
If they have been under the thumb of someone 'evil', then it could be understood to an extent. But I hope to hear more about this.

The tyranny was suffered from their past leaders such as Skullcrusher, Zuluhed and Mor'ghor which were your typical power hungry orcs.

Mutterscrawl · 08/12/10, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ratek

I am not in the Beta, and I haven't seen anything in this tread or elsewhere, what is the tyrrany the Dragonmaw has suffered under? I'm asking because Zaela appears like a Thrall Horde commander, which then begs the question, why hasn't the Dragonmaw approached the Horde? If only for some low level diplomatic relations or rejections of each other.
If the new Dragonmaw leadership is so honourable or 'good', then it is hard to perpetuate a story that the Dragonmaw thought the Horde weak for various reasons (who was stronger etc etc).
If they have been under the thumb of someone 'evil', then it could be understood to an extent. But I hope to hear more about this.

Mor'ghor was apparently keeping the Dragonmaw from openly working with the Horde, there are a few videos where their merchants and flightmaster say they're not allowed to work for you and grumble about mor'ghor.

Apparently Zaela overthrows him with Garroshs help and THEN they join the Horde and get fancy northrend architecture.

Ratek · 08/12/10, 12:51 PM

I thought the EK Dragonmaw had little to no contact with the Outland branch. But isn't there at least a significant gap between the death of Nekros Skullcrusher and the arrival of Mor'ghor?

Leviathon · 08/12/10, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by Ratek

I thought the EK Dragonmaw had little to no contact with the Outland branch. But isn't there at least a significant gap between the death of Nekros Skullcrusher and the arrival of Mor'ghor?

Some other orc could of been leading it during that time that was against allying with anyone still.

Mutterscrawl · 08/12/10, 2:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ratek

I thought the EK Dragonmaw had little to no contact with the Outland branch. But isn't there at least a significant gap between the death of Nekros Skullcrusher and the arrival of Mor'ghor?

Zaela might've been too young during that time.