World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 627

Camaris · 08/14/10, 4:22 AM

AFAIK, the Thaumaturge in Stormwind is the Reforging NPC. Could it be that they just did not add Orcish (or whatever you Hordlings speak!) flavor texts concerning reforging?

I think Thrall looks good. Very shaman-y, very faction-neutral. I know the Horde has had to endure a lot of faction-neutral humans in WotLK. Perhaps this is the Alliance's chance to do some quests for Orcs.

An unrelated question: is there any lore for the Ettins? I see them popping up in Twighlight Highlands screenshots, meaning they are not just an oddity from beyond the Gilnean wall. Are we supposed to have missed a race of ogre-like giants roaming around Azeroth for nearly 6 years?

Kaejin · 08/14/10, 6:33 AM

Originally Posted by Camaris

An unrelated question: is there any lore for the Ettins? I see them popping up in Twighlight Highlands screenshots, meaning they are not just an oddity from beyond the Gilnean wall. Are we supposed to have missed a race of ogre-like giants roaming around Azeroth for nearly 6 years?

Silverpine quests seem to indicate that the ones there came from Gilneas. There's an awful lot of them for them all to come from such a small country, but I think the excuse is probably that the Cataclysm drove them out for the world to see and for the Twilight's Hammer to exploit. However, it wouldn't be that weird if they were native to most mountainous regions. Twilight Highlands could probably support several on it's own. Alterac could have had a few, Redridge, etc. Most of Eastern Kingdoms is actually pretty full of mountains.

Tyvi · 08/14/10, 6:35 AM

Originally Posted by Kaejin

Pretty sure blacks are just in a rough spot. Twilights always showed the same disdain for blacks that blacks showed for the other flights, and now that they're dominant, the blacks are just fodder.

Twilights are Deathwing's favorites now, and we know he's a pretty poor father so it's unlikely he cares about what the twilights do to the blacks.

I wonder if that might set the stage for some Black dragon traitors collaborating with the Alliance/Horde. Was there a consensus on the fact that dragons could not betray their aspect (Malygos and the Blue Dragonflight etc)? Would really love some ruthless Black dragons to fight on our side for once without them manipulating us.

Kaejin · 08/14/10, 6:44 AM

I don't think anything was really determined past the fact that the nature of the flight aspect heavily influence the nature of the flight itself. The fact that not all blue dragons participated in the Nexus War suggests they do have free will.

It's also worth mentioning that Nether Dragons are all descended from Deathwing. It's mentioned that they gained his temperament, but the Netherwing are more than enough evidence that they're not evil like him. It's possible that it's just the way dragons are raised rather than some underlying impulse they naturally have.

Shabadu · 08/14/10, 7:24 AM

My only problem with that Thrall model is the hair color, it's always been black.

Tinwhisker · 08/14/10, 10:20 AM

About Thrall looking older now, there is reason for it. First off, he needs to be more "Shamany" because that's his role in this expansion; secondly the whole ordeal of holding things together and opposing an aspects power has probably taken a sever toll on him. Nevermind that he was recently captured. Gray hair and maybe even some lingering injuries or pain is par for the course in something like that. I mean, as awesome as Thrall might be, he's no demi-god, he's still just an Orc and hasn't been Knaak'd like some other characters have been.

For a real-life example, look at political leaders, an easy source to view is the US President. Look at pictures when they first take office and when they leave. Whether they're good at it or not, the job is stressful enough to wreck a human being. You'll not see people age so much in just 4 years.

dustdog · 08/14/10, 11:57 AM

I honestly thought it was Gul'dan when I saw it.

Ratek · 08/14/10, 12:31 PM

He does share a fair few similarities with that old Warlock.
I can agree with both sides. It is awesome that he is very much a Shaman this time. It fits and he is finally destinctive. But I also share the feeling that he is strangely badly clothed (come on, all powerful magical beings has dressed up as they gained power), his hair is off. He suddenly has very long hair (previously he was pretty closely cropped for an Orc). His age, while him aging is understandable, he has gotten wrinkles. He isn't even 30 yet! Don't mention Khadgar...
So a smoother less hobo Thrall would be awesome.

About the Blacks. That drake could indeed be a mount. Think about the mount we get from Sarth. The idea is that it is a young one, not yet indoctrinated. This one could just be hatched and treated nicely... There are many possibilities really. It could also just be the one Black to survive the torture the other three in the screenshot didn't, and is now a forced slave.

Monocle · 08/14/10, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Tinwhisker

About Thrall looking older now, there is reason for it. First off, he needs to be more "Shamany" because that's his role in this expansion; secondly the whole ordeal of holding things together and opposing an aspects power has probably taken a sever toll on him. Nevermind that he was recently captured. Gray hair and maybe even some lingering injuries or pain is par for the course in something like that. I mean, as awesome as Thrall might be, he's no demi-god, he's still just an Orc and hasn't been Knaak'd like some other characters have been.

For a real-life example, look at political leaders, an easy source to view is the US President. Look at pictures when they first take office and when they leave. Whether they're good at it or not, the job is stressful enough to wreck a human being. You'll not see people age so much in just 4 years.

Same example I was thinking of, and Thrall has had a lot of stressful things to deal with even before Garrosh showed up. There is another thing, Orcs have a shorter life expectancy then Humans, and he may be at the point of his life he has started greying. He is younger then Garrosh, but Garrosh also has shaved his head, or is suffering from male Orc Pattern baldness at that point in his life, so he is not a good indicator. The old fel taint that the non-Mah'gar Orcs have could be a factor here too.

We really do not have many examples of old Orcs. Saurfang and Drek'Thar are the only notable ones around I can think of. Well Kilrogg too, but he is most likely dead by now as he has been MIA since WC2. Guldan was usually described as being young, and all of the pictures we have seen of him had him being grey haired too.

I like the model as yeah he is pretty much Far Seer Thrall, plus his braids are now even longer so we do get an indicator some time has passed. He really looks world weary here, and with all that's going on, who can blame him?

Powerslave · 08/14/10, 2:29 PM

Hold on a second,you're suggesting that because of the stress of his work he looks like a fat grandma on his thirties? I find that hard to believe.If he was mildly older that'd be one thing,however his face looks like he's 70 to me and especially his hair(which apparently are greenish and not completely white for some reason) look really old too.

Monocle,how do we know that Garrosh is older than Thrall? --Never mind,got answered in a pm.

Anyhow,I think it's probably safer to say that it's a very,very bad model than all the conspiracies about the Cataclysm in league with Nozdormu ate thrall's youth.Just wait and see I guess.

Ratek · 08/14/10, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by Monocle

There is another thing, Orcs have a shorter life expectancy then Humans, and he may be at the point of his life he has started greying.

Is that something we know? I mean it is common in other universes that Humans have 100 years and Orc about 70 years. But in Warcraft I haven't seen or heard anything to support such a notion.
There are indeed few old Orcs, but you have to consider their background here. Firstly they entered Azeroth as a military expedition, only heroes and specialists would be old. The common warrior would be in the prime of his life or directly young. Few of those would be old by now, even if Orcs age faster. Also, the entire Orc society is military more or less, only few private enterprises exist. Thus there are very few civilians compared to warriors, male or female. Humans on the other hand are common as civilians, thus plenty potential as 'old'. Among the military there are just as few old people as among Orcs, that be specialists and heroes. The rest are just like the Orcs, a generic person 16-60.

Among the old Orcs you can add at least a few more, like Eitrigg and Ner'zhul (both were quite old even before the 'blood' incident). How many Humans warriors are old? I mean not only ARE old but look like it too? Not that many. More than Orcs, sure, but there are more Human warriors around anyway.

So unless there is some Blizzard endorsed source on the matter of Orc life expectancy, I would say we know very little about it. Other than Thrall is still considered young, and not middle aged or even in his prime.

Nathanyel · 08/14/10, 2:49 PM

Is it just me or does the long face and that cowl make him look kinda lika a Broken?

Ratek · 08/14/10, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by Nathanyel

Is it just me or does the long face and that cowl make him look kinda lika a Broken?

Nope, that is a common comment at MMO-Champ, personally I still see him destinctly as an Orc, though I see the point.

Kaejin · 08/14/10, 3:36 PM

People who are saying it's stress are right. He spent the last few years dealing with bullheaded war hawks like Garrosh and Wrynn and now he's holding the very world together.

All the guy wanted was peace, and he spent nearly all of his time as Warchief working toward that goal only to have it yanked away in the most spectacular fashion possible. Faded hair and a few wrinkles seem reasonable.

My only problem is that it's not consistent. It looks like he has moss growing in his beard and stole some brunette's pony tails.

I'm actually reminded a lot of the Monk from Diablo 3. Looks like he made a stop in Pandara to pick up a sleeveless robe and giant Buddhist prayer beads. There's no question that Samwise Didier designed this.

Monocle · 08/14/10, 5:18 PM

Originally Posted by Ratek

Is that something we know? I mean it is common in other universes that Humans have 100 years and Orc about 70 years. But in Warcraft I haven't seen or heard anything to support such a notion.
There are indeed few old Orcs, but you have to consider their background here. Firstly they entered Azeroth as a military expedition, only heroes and specialists would be old. The common warrior would be in the prime of his life or directly young. Few of those would be old by now, even if Orcs age faster. Also, the entire Orc society is military more or less, only few private enterprises exist. Thus there are very few civilians compared to warriors, male or female. Humans on the other hand are common as civilians, thus plenty potential as 'old'. Among the military there are just as few old people as among Orcs, that be specialists and heroes. The rest are just like the Orcs, a generic person 16-60.

Among the old Orcs you can add at least a few more, like Eitrigg and Ner'zhul (both were quite old even before the 'blood' incident). How many Humans warriors are old? I mean not only ARE old but look like it too? Not that many. More than Orcs, sure, but there are more Human warriors around anyway.

So unless there is some Blizzard endorsed source on the matter of Orc life expectancy, I would say we know very little about it. Other than Thrall is still considered young, and not middle aged or even in his prime.

The lifespan thing came from the old RPG core books, I remember when I read it realizing that Thrall would likely not reach his 80's. This stuff was really discussed back when the Draenei showed up, mainly because their lifespans were a bit of an unknown, and there was no information on them printed at the time. Yeah I know, the RPG books are a bit out of date now, but this stuff was around right after WC3 and WoW came out. That being said, iirc, there were two separate age tables, so the revised one may have had a longer lifespan.

And WoWiki comes to the rescue, they have the chart listed.

Life spans - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Now yeah I agree the harsh life a lot of the Orcs live likely does make them die sooner.