Fact is, Exemplar, if you try to draw an orc with only the tusks showing from the lower lip, it'll look odd. Really odd. The thing is, it forces the lower lip to make a sharp turn to cover the lower teeth. Or to draw them a lip the size of a bicep.

Although, Blizzard depicting orcs as mouth-breathers isn't far-fetched at all. Even though no artist draws the orcs in a hunched position (the WoW art book as a concept drawn that way and it looks absolutely hideous), Blizzard insists on making them hunched...they don't need to pose like elves, but give their necks a break (no pun intended).

I guess someone pointed out how awesome this was already, but here's proof that a closed mouth does indeed make for a better orc (being serious, here, he looks much more determined):



Although I find the tusks to be a little too thick and positioned to the sides of the mouth, this picture makes all the in-game model's awkwardness worth it - also, notice...no hunching posture.

Tauren, too, suffer a little from that. While I like the lump (it makes them look more menacing), I'd rather have their heads positioned a bit higher with a smaller lump, thus making more room for a larger chest.

Where can I find info about Garrosh being older then Thrall? I'm not saying he isn't or that I don't believe you since it all makes sense when you think about it. Grom was around when Ner'zhul was cheftain of the Horde and he participated in the Second War, ofcourse his son would be atleast the same age as Thrall. I've just always pictured Garrosh as being younger then Thrall due to him being a hothead and giving an overall immature picture of himself while Thrall always seemed more mature and wiser.


Edit: Stupid me confused Grom Hellscream with Orgrim Doomhammer...

Reference: Light's Hope Chapel - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft


This is according to WoWwiki - which compiled data from WoW lore and the Comic mini-series 'World of Warcraft: Ashbringer.'

"Lord Maxwell Tyrosus takes Darion Mograine to the catacombs beneath and tells him the story of how, during Arthas's rampage through Lordaeron, Tyrosus and a few others were chosen for the secret task of unearthing the bodies of a thousand fallen heroes of the Light and bringing them to Light's Hope Chapel."

It further explains that the souls of the dead heroes buried beneath Lights hope chapel together their reckoning is so powerful that no force on Azeroth can with-stand it.

The Lich King remarks during the Battle of Light's hope chapel, claiming that there is nothing but hallow ground beneath the chapel.

Garrosh had to be bit older than that considering he was old enough to possibly fight when Kargath came to Garadar looking for help in Beyond the Dark Portal.

One more thing in favor of Orcs reaching maturity before Humans. Garrosh couldn't have been more than, let's say, 10 years old, by then. And I'm exaggerating, most likely. That he was deemed ready for war - even if Kargath was desperate, I don't think he'd take infants to battle.

Yeah we haven't heard anything about Varok since his appearance in Icecrown Citadel...
A sensible place to put him next would definitely be in Nagrand, perhaps in Garadar or at the Ancestral Burial Grounds near Oshu'gun, as that would be a good place to send off Draenosh.
But I don't think they will.
Outland is in the "past" now. Blizzard are not going to remove questlines such as the Hero of the Mag'har one with Garrosh, it is far too plot-heavy and gameplay involved with the mini-cinematic and Thrall coming to Garadar. It would be like removing the Wrathgate questline from Northrend after Cataclysm hits.
They couldn't move Varok there because Garrosh and Draenosh are still there.

Almost because of this I think they will move Varok to somewhere in Azeroth, despite everything he's been through in Northrend, we don't really know what's happening in the pre-Cataclysm world event, maybe he fights Deathwing. His death would certainly incense the Horde players to renew their subscriptions so that they can avenge him.

I think the reason people dislike Malfurion and Rhonin is because they were poorly written by Knaak who gave them ridiculous power-ups. Where as Thrall (thank god) hasn't been touched by him and gets written by Christie Golden in The Shattering. Also did you see what he did to Tyrande and Vareesa ='(

Aye, and Malfurion is actually one of the most liked characters from his role in WC3. He was genuinely ingenious, back then. But in the War of the Ancients Trilogy, for example, you see him displaying the same nervousness about his enemies - coupled with insecurity about his own powers - but relying (every single time) on his seed pouch. He literally has a seed for every occasion.

Rhonin is akin. He had Day of the Dragon, in which he evaded/got lucky, most of the time. And it worked. We believed he was a competent mage, he was simply fighting too many and too powerful enemies. In WotA, his worst enemy ended up being his physique - he got tired (though he was also spell-smothered in one occasion). In Night of the Dragon, though no longer supercharged, he ended up cleaning house as well.

On Thrall, he thunderstruck down a Necropolis, wind-blew the others away, brought down a castle by doing a rain-dance, killed Varimathras (with help)...and yet, time and again, he's been powerless to stop tragedy from knocking at his door. Taretha got headless, Orgrim sacrificed himself without Thrall having made a dent to Magtheridon, Doomhammer was impaled, his rule - based on justice and being firm while peaceful - ended up being perceived as weak by a great deal of the warriors who probably fought by him in WC3 (and in the last few years). We know Thrall, between his combat and shamanistic training, could've ripped Garrosh in half - it might've even got him some respect from his detractors.

That, despite his power, reality still manages to punch Thrall in the gut time and again, is what makes him much more acceptable.

You surely meant Grom and Mannoroth.
Still Thrall's power is not that surprising. He was destined to became greatest shaman, stronger than Ner'zul. But his powers come from spirits and elements. Question is, how is he able to communicate with spirits with world in this state?

Man, two lorefails in one setting...I'm getting better. Yep, Grom and Mannoroth.

@Kirion: I think the answer to that last question of yours lies in the fact that Thrall doesn't communicate with some elementals. Rather, he communes with the elements' higher consciences. The spirit of fire/water/earth/air/wilderness. As in, Fire/Water/Air/Earth/Wilderness itself.

These spirits' children are in disarray, but the spirits themselves have always existed between the two planes. You don't need an elemental crossing into Azeroth and going psycho to have a giant wave. Not even Neptulon. So the water spirit might be from the Elemental Plane, but it has always manifested itself in Azeroth.

Elements coexist in some sort of "round food-chain" order: fire consumes the wilderness, water consumes fire and rock, the wilderness consumes water, rock...well, rock is pretty much everywhere, it's the basis of the world. This is simplistic, of course, but it goes to show that while elementals' idea of "food chain" is to spank each other, the elements themselves don't necessarily like chaos and disorder. They strive for balance and reasonableness.

If memory serves, one of the things Drek'thar taught Thrall was that requesting aid from the elements required a purpose. Sure, you now have shamans everywhere asking for a thunderbolt to strike a gnome, but the elements are supposed to obey to the "everything has a purpose" rule. Thrall is an agent of order and purpose. The ideal agent, in fact.

The reasons for Thrall quitting from Warchief and being capable of using dragons as kites are one and the same: his good nature.

Edit: In any way, the matter of the elemental state-of-affairs has been discussed a few pages back.