I think they're looking to grow new lore within WoW itself rather than continually referring back to the RTS games. Foremost "new" enigma to my mind is what is going on with the Infinite Dragonflight and Nozdormu.

I think the idea of losing to the evil forces is really a compelling one, as long as it is you genuinely losing, not some ambiguous fight were we manage to weaken the lich king but he could still return. It would be really unique. However, the idea is wrought with problems. The most glaring is how do you market an expansion with the same boss as the last? So much of WoW is tied up in lore and we have pretty much exhausted the line in WotLK. Another expansion devoted to the same thing would be tiresome at best. Your idea of a world under siege is interesting, but seems to way overshoot the scope of an expansion. You can't just radically alter existing content. This idea would be better left for a sequel.

Also, one of the reasons I enjoy WotLK so much is that the Arthas/Lich King story line has been in the background since launch. We knew it was inevitable. This gave us plenty of time to anticipate it and Blizzard lots of time to really ingrain the lore and myth. It is really effective story telling and for once in WoW I really feel like everything is leading to something. It is the one advantage this expansion and it really separates it from TBC. I am afraid any new expansion will have to forward looking, creating a lot of brand new lore instead of building on what was already there.

Azshara is a big question mark right now. There is a lot they could do with her, as there just isn't much stuff out, especially concerning the time after the Sundering. I think she would be a great choice, but they would have to go even further with the story stuff then they did with Arthas, she is a lot more obscure to a lot of the game player base then Arthas. Say Azshara and a lot of people just think of the zone that is empty.

If they do use her as the headliner villian, I'd expect at least one or two CoT instances to help explain things a bit, which is where you can also have a lead into he whole situation with the Bronze flight finally coming to the forefront.

One nice thing about Azshara is she would be a major female villian. WoW hasn't had many woman super-villians other Onyxia and Vashj, and poor Vashj kinda got shortchanged even with her amazing boss fight.

The idea of us losing is fascinating, but I don't think Blizzard will go that route. People prefer "happy endings" as they say and also Blizzard can do a lot after the Lich King is defeated.

In terms of the new Phasing Tech, it is good for limited use like in Icecrown, having an entire city under it means two people in different phases can't interact with each other. So we would have some issues there.

I would instead look at the Burning Legion if we are looking for the same exact things you mentioned. A return of the BL to Azeroth could cause similar results, while we are celebrating our victory over Arthas. If the fragile alliance between Alliance and Horde doesn't reform leading to Arthas's defeat, it would be an ideal opportunity for the Legion to strike. Even the death of Arthas would make the moment good, its one less thing for the Legion to deal with and maybe they can take control over the scourge?

I think there is enough Lore and storylines in WoW that I am not worried about, "what after Arthas?". Arthas is the most compelling Villian because that is where the RTS games sort of left off. But I would like for Blizzard to introduce some new story arcs (take the Infinite/Bronze arc forward for example).

The phasing and "mega-instance" technology Blizzard has used in Wrath actually makes this doable. It has other consequences in terms of playability, but a changing world for people who have made it to 80 and experienced whatever event there would be is doable. It's just a bigger version of what they did with the death knights, and that was seemless unless you got a 1 in a million glitch and saw someone in a different phase for a fraction of an instant.

And there could be new content even with a victorious Arthas. He's omnicidal; he could be going after the South Seas after overrunning most of the northern half of Azeroth, or clashing with the Titans in some outgrowth from Uldurr. So you could have Azshara or an angry Pantheon; Blizzard has been hinting that the Titans might not be that good to have show up again and see the mess we made of Azeroth. And we could get to take another crack at Arthas on top of whatever new stuff there is to fight and loot.

It could work. It would be unorthodox, but it could work. In terms of marketing, I think WoW is more than fine. Lich King broke a game sales record held by Burning Crusade.

Phasing technology is custom-made for the Emerald Dream. The whole point of the Dream is that it's a second world overlaid upon the existing one.

Comparing such a central figure like Arthas to a relative nobody like Varian is hardly a fair comparison.

I think the Varian character was developed exceptionally well in the context of WoW, with complex motivations and a decent amount of back story to explain it. Tironn Fordring is also a well crafted character, created within WoW. But unless you play both Alliance and Horde, you'll only ever get one half of the story.

With the advent of phasing technology and using in-game cinematics a-la Wrathgate, Blizzard is now able to tell us a story with major plot points and now their effects on the living world. The problem is now trying to tell a story where the player is not just the objective third-party observer, but actually has motivations and bias of their own. Which is why we'll likely never see phased events or cinematics which involve Horde or Alliance specific plot points.

Yes, they did. Last week.

Also as someone pointed out on website- phasing has existed in the game for a long time, ie: spirit walk to corpse.

That's my point. Varian Wrynn is the King of Stormwind and the putative leader of the entire Alliance. And yet very little is known about him from any of the actual video games. Compared to Thrall or Sylvanas, he's a nobody.

Tirion Fordring stands out as a major exception to this problem -- various quests are littered with references to him, he has his own voice actor in the game, and players who have never read his novella (Of Blood and Honor) still have quite a good idea of who he is, what is backstory is, and what kinds of things he will and will not do.

These are both very exciting ideas. Id add this to the mix:

Another idea for post-Icecrown advances (or Wow 2.0) is the Titans re-ordering Azeroth. We know that its been suggested they are coming back - and wouldn't it be a fascinating plot twist if the long-thought good guys were upset over the state of affairs (wars, magic use etc) of Azeroth, much like Malygos - and simply decided they wanted to destroy it all and start Azeroth over. We'd have to fight for our survival against our own creators, a nice twist.

As others mentioned, Arthas has been in WC3 and built up through WOTLK. The third expansion villain is going to be who? The real question is: Is there anyone you care about enough left in WoW that you want to really spend 2 years playing just to get the chance to see, after we kill Arthas?

Now if you know your WoW story strongly, you might be able to come up with a good handful of names. But think of the players who never played WC3, have never read a WC book and never really take that much notice of ingame lore. Theres only a few answers players like that possibly might come up with: Deathwing, Azshara and Sargeras. Azshara has barely been mentioned in the expansion, aside from referenced in quests. So, if Blizzard releases Icecrown instance - are we just expected to accept a simple 'Oh no! Azshara has arisen mortals - you must go fight her!' scenario? Because thats not acceptable, not after having Arthas set up in the full-package way hes been.

A major issue with WOTLK (specifically lore and storyline), in my opinion, is it has set the bar so high it's going to be difficult to best itself with the third expansion. Thats why many of us concerned that Blizzard hasn't started yet fleshing out the major characters/stories/leads the story might take place after Icecrown, which still is during WOTLK's release.

After that Icecrown instance is released, you just can't expect people to suddenly start caring for a 'Oh no! A new bad guy is coming!' character for future. Thats not compelling at all. The WOTLK story looks like its setting up for a terrific culmination, but we know it can't end there. It has to set the scene for the future story, which doesn't seem to be happening yet. Thats how I rationalise this being relevant to a WOTLK thread.

Just a closing thought: Who is one of the characters that has been in WoW/WCx forever, that most players have a long-time relationship with in some form and know about, that could be groomed into poster-boy status like Illidan/Arthas and market their own expansion? Someone most people wouldn't expect, that would feel like an old-friend rather than a 'tacked on bad guy'? Elune/Earthmother. Yes, shes the ultimate good girl.... now - but that would make it such an interesting twist, if she was corrupted with a compelling story.

I would think this as well. I'm guessing somewhere around 10%-20% of WoW players at most have been exposed to Warcraft lore through WC I-III or books. The majority probably learned about Illidan and Arthas through WoW (or game trailers). They probably wouldn't care much if a lesser known character or an entirely new character was promoted to the focus of the next expansion as long as the quests/fights leading up to them were engaging.

Having played through WC I-III I do enjoy having the background on the characters I'm fighting, but given the years it's been since those games my memory of the major players and events aren't crystal clear. They could probably keep me interested as long as their choice had some semblance of a logical tie-in. Of course, my main is a space goat living out of a crashed starship so I may not be that hard to please...