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Old 10/23/10, 7:06 PM   #9826
Liebestod
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Elune
So as I understand:

4.1 - Firelands / Abyssal Maw 5-man
4.2 - WotA / ??? 5-man
4.3 and beyond - ???

Obviously there's the Temple of Earth Deathwing raid, but there'll also be an Uldum raid and possibly an Abyssal Maw raid?

It's odd that this is the most Old God-influenced expansion so far, yet it doesn't seem like we'll face off against Ni'Zoth or any other Old God during the Cataclysm cycle. My guess is that we'll see the Emerald Dream and South Seas combined into the next expansion and have Ni'Zoth as... the last Old God? Surely there will be more? Who knows.

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Old 10/23/10, 7:51 PM   #9827
Monocle
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Originally Posted by Liebestod View Post
So as I understand:

4.1 - Firelands / Abyssal Maw 5-man
4.2 - WotA / ??? 5-man
4.3 and beyond - ???

Obviously there's the Temple of Earth Deathwing raid, but there'll also be an Uldum raid and possibly an Abyssal Maw raid?

It's odd that this is the most Old God-influenced expansion so far, yet it doesn't seem like we'll face off against Ni'Zoth or any other Old God during the Cataclysm cycle. My guess is that we'll see the Emerald Dream and South Seas combined into the next expansion and have Ni'Zoth as... the last Old God? Surely there will be more? Who knows.
We may have another raid in 4.1, they just haven't announced it yet. Firelands is only seven bosses after all. There is another thing, apparently one of the tracks on the soundtrack CD is Emerald Dream related.

Last edited by Monocle : 10/23/10 at 8:48 PM.

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Old 10/23/10, 11:25 PM   #9828
Tyrian
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It's odd that this is the most Old God-influenced expansion so far, yet it doesn't seem like we'll face off against Ni'Zoth or any other Old God during the Cataclysm cycle
At first it seems odd, but ultimately I think this would be a good thing. Having Old God's frequently appear just to be frequently defeated, just serves to cheapen their image (like how Infinite Dragonflight were the token bad guys in CoT, yet they're viewed as a big joke). Which in turn, lessons the value us players hold over them to serve as compelling story figures.

The story of an Old God, which could culminate a story arc spanning several expansions, is exciting and something to look forward to developing for years to come. Not something that is quickly dealt with, dispatched - then forgotten - in the next content patch.

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Old 10/23/10, 11:38 PM   #9829
Tinwhisker
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Originally Posted by Tyrian View Post
The story of an Old God, which could culminate a story arc spanning several expansions, is exciting and something to look forward to developing for years to come. Not something that is quickly dealt with, dispatched - then forgotten - in the next content patch.
I've actually thought that the patches within themselves are too compartmentalized. I'd be quite happy if the raid for 4.2 was introduced in a 5man in 4.1 and the raid wasn't the resolution but instead there was another 5man and a series of quests in 4.3.


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Old 10/24/10, 1:37 AM   #9830
Liebestod
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Well, interestingly, I guess I had missed the fact that there IS some relevant Old God-related lore in Cataclysm:

Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron - Item - World of Warcraft

I think this is a good example of how figuring out the lore can really tell you something about what we're going to be seeing in the game in the coming years. From the puzzle box whispers, it seems to be strongly hinted that the Old God under the sea = the Old God behind the Nightmare = Ni'Zoth. It seems like he's behind every major problem remaining in Azeroth, and that indicates to me that the Emerald Dream content and the Maelstrom stuff will both go hand in hand somehow.

I would have thought that there would be multiple Old Gods remaining to be defeated - and maybe there still are - but it seems like Ni'Zoth is the real threat here. And the idea of there being an Old God city is pretty awesome, I can just imagine what a Lovecraft-based zone would look like. I'm just mostly worried that Blizzard will just never really develop the Old Gods either as characters or as a force with a broader role in the WoW cosmology... there hasn't really been anything new since Uldum. But this is somewhat reassuring.

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Old 10/24/10, 5:21 AM   #9831
Malleus
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Originally Posted by Liebestod View Post
I would have thought that there would be multiple Old Gods remaining to be defeated - and maybe there still are - but it seems like Ni'Zoth is the real threat here. And the idea of there being an Old God city is pretty awesome, I can just imagine what a Lovecraft-based zone would look like.
Oh, R'lyeh? Ïa! R'lyeh!

*cough*

Liebestod: this blue post answers your question. Although it's six months old, the plans for content design would have been well in hand if not actually complete by then so it's not likely to have changed.

We recognize that very long raids can be a barrier for some players, but we also want to provide enough encounters for the experience to feel epic. For the first few raid tiers, our plan is to provide multiple smaller raids. Instead of one raid with eleven bosses, you might have a five-boss raid as well as a six-boss raid. All of these bosses would drop the same item level gear, but the dungeons themselves being different environments will provide some variety in location and visual style, as well as separate raid lockouts. Think of how you could raid Serpentshrine Cavern and Tempest Keep separately, but you might still want to hit both every week.
So there will almost certainly be a second T11 raid in addition to Firelands.

One thought: Nethaera goes on immediately to say how much they like gating because it helps players focus on each encounter in turn. This is probably not connected, but might it be that the second T11 raid will be released separately from the first? It would be strange to "gate" an entire raid without calling it attunement, but putting out the second raid in, say, late January would fill their avowed intent of not having us rush to clear T11 in the first reset then complain there's nothing to do for six months.

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Old 10/24/10, 6:41 AM   #9832
Kirion
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Originally Posted by Malleus View Post
Oh, R'lyeh? Ïa! R'lyeh!

*cough*

Liebestod: this blue post answers your question. Although it's six months old, the plans for content design would have been well in hand if not actually complete by then so it's not likely to have changed.



So there will almost certainly be a second T11 raid in addition to Firelands.

One thought: Nethaera goes on immediately to say how much they like gating because it helps players focus on each encounter in turn. This is probably not connected, but might it be that the second T11 raid will be released separately from the first? It would be strange to "gate" an entire raid without calling it attunement, but putting out the second raid in, say, late January would fill their avowed intent of not having us rush to clear T11 in the first reset then complain there's nothing to do for six months.


Correct me if i'm wrong, aren't they also wanted to create "Onyxia-style" encounter on each tier? We have Skywall on the first tier. What bosses we may fight on next tiers?

42.

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Old 10/24/10, 9:18 AM   #9833
Tinwhisker
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Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Kirion View Post
Correct me if i'm wrong, aren't they also wanted to create "Onyxia-style" encounter on each tier? We have Skywall on the first tier. What bosses we may fight on next tiers?
Well, there are several groups involved here, so pick what you like. On the single-style fight though it seems to me that Blizzard is in a rut. In every case so far we've gone into the bosses lair and whooped 'em (Malygos, Onixia, etc). It just doesn't seem to me that single boss encounters should be set like that. I've always thought that the best setup for a single boss was if we would ambush them while vulnerable.

For example, XYZ <bad guy> is traveling under cover through the night on some ship, Alexstraza finds out and sends a small guerrilla force (us) to go capture/kill him. Imagine the whole raid, dropped off the back of a dragon onto a ship at sea where we then fight the ships crew and then the boss. If you fail, you find yourselves on wreckage at sea where the dragon then picks you up to try again.


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Old 10/24/10, 4:15 PM   #9834
Powerslave
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Twilight's Hammer (EU)
Regarding Garrosh's age,is it now retconned so that Garrosh is younger than Thrall? (Also not sure how you can retcon that clearly,they'd have to either make Thrall get born before the horde crosses the dark portal or make Grom shoot his sperm though the dark portal sometime after Thrall was born.Is it possible that Grom went back to draenor after the dark portal and then went back to Azeroth?)

From the shattering:
The two had been leaning to their sides, shouting over Thrall as if he were not there. Thrall had permitted it because he wanted to judge the relationship between the two, but now he
lifted a commanding hand and his voice was biting.
“It is not that simple, Garrosh!”
Garrosh turned to protest, but Thrall narrowed his blue eyes in warning, and the younger orc closed his mouth and sat sullenly silent.

Authoritah!

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Old 10/24/10, 4:47 PM   #9835
Tinwhisker
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Scarlet Crusade
I'm willing to bet that's a mistake and not a retcon. Thrall plays the part of the older and wiser Orc with Garrosh being the young, brash upstart. It's an easy slip to make if you're not extra careful.


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Old 10/25/10, 10:01 PM   #9836
Nuke1096
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Human Rogue
 
Malfurion
Originally Posted by Liebestod View Post
So as I understand:

4.1 - Firelands / Abyssal Maw 5-man
4.2 - WotA / ??? 5-man
4.3 and beyond - ???

Obviously there's the Temple of Earth Deathwing raid, but there'll also be an Uldum raid and possibly an Abyssal Maw raid?

It's odd that this is the most Old God-influenced expansion so far, yet it doesn't seem like we'll face off against Ni'Zoth or any other Old God during the Cataclysm cycle. My guess is that we'll see the Emerald Dream and South Seas combined into the next expansion and have Ni'Zoth as... the last Old God? Surely there will be more? Who knows.
I really really wished somebody would have asked at Blizzcon where the final Deathwing Raid will be taking place. That said, I do think it will take place underneath the Temple of Earth. I'm also really disappointed that we are not getting an Abyssal Maw Raid Zone. I wonder if the final boss in the 5-man is going to be Neptulon. If not, then it would seem they are saving him for Azshara's Expansion. Which is ok I suppose. Although, there better be another raid coming with the 4.1 Patch. Seven bosses does not seem long enough.

Btw, on an unrelated note. Wasn't Garona and Mathias Shaw supposed to be involved in the Bastion of Twilight Raid? Like a questline, or apparently doing something with regards to Cho'Gall. I haven't seen anything related to that in any of the BoT Raid Testing Videos.

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Old 10/25/10, 11:26 PM   #9837
Liebestod
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Elune
It's only a vague impression, and even if true Blizzard might have scrapped the plans, but my impression is that there IS supposed to be an Abyssal Mar 1-shot raid at some point, presumably against Neptulon.

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Old 10/26/10, 12:34 AM   #9838
Halibell
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Gorefiend
I hope we don't kill Neptulon, i'm not in the beta but from what i've seen we help him twice, one questing and another inside the Throne of the Tides. If they do implement a malygos style raid in 4.1 it would be interesting if the naga once again subdue him and we must kill his captor.

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Old 10/26/10, 3:46 AM   #9839
Kirion
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Deathwing (EU)
Originally Posted by Halibell View Post
I hope we don't kill Neptulon, i'm not in the beta but from what i've seen we help him twice, one questing and another inside the Throne of the Tides. If they do implement a malygos style raid in 4.1 it would be interesting if the naga once again subdue him and we must kill his captor.
Neptulon is very much evil being. It's just that we chose to side him over naga or Ragnaros. I doubt that we will kill him before next expansion. However we don't really know his true agenda.

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Old 10/26/10, 5:07 AM   #9840
Bierzkrieg
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Orc Warrior
 
Burning Steppes (EU)
On another note, Metzen made an interesting (if not exactly peaceful) remark: he told us we shouldn't pay too much attention or give too much importance to Garrosh Hellscream, since he's merely an element of a bigger story whose center is Thrall.

By the way, he seemed to indicate Thrall is to become the new Aspect of Earth.

So...Metzen is finally turning his (one assumes...) favourite pet character into the most god-like mofo Azeroth has seen. It remains to see wether Thrall will ever be the Warchief again. Don't know what to make of this exactly. On one hand, it's not like Garrosh is being overlooked. He's been more of a subject than Thrall, has finally become Warchief and might even get to use both of his brain hemispheres. My guess is he'll stay Warchief for a good deal of time.

Warcraft is pretty much full of Mary Sues. Until now, Thrall has avoided becoming one, mostly because his Warchief duties have kept him away from major world-threats. My guess is, all the background available on him prevents such Mary Sueism. He's a well developed character who's more than worthy of a few Moments of Awesome. Should he, for example, land the final blow on Deathwing after we weaken him a good deal, that's normal. Should he do it on his own, though...

PS: Kalecgos is the new lord of Magic, which means the early plans to have a non-scaly one (Med'han...) as Malygos' successor were shot down. Azuregos will not be pleased, and I'm not either...I hope the position comes with a good power infusion, otherwise the new blue Aspect will be, well, farmable. I know he's supposed to be powerful - and he was, in the Sunwell raid...somewhat...but the guy spent a whole trilogy and a novel (Night of the Dragon) being a complete joke - power-wise.

"Do you see what you get, Carla? Do you see what you get when you mess with the Warrior?"
Turk

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