Returning to the tactics discussion, it seems to me that Sylvanas' capture of Andorhal is utterly pointless. The Forsaken can't move much further south from the Western Plaguelands (the south path from WP leads to Hillsbrad, which they already control) and southeast of WP are the Hinterlands and Arathi, both firmly controlled by the Alliance. The WP doesn't give Sylvanas access to anything. It would be smarter for Sylvanas to move south from Silverpine, wipe out Gilneas, and grab control of the harbor there. From there, it's merely a short trip to bombard Menethil or even Stormwind Harbor.

Regarding the occupation of the Barrens, the Alliance having a strong presence there definitely complicates strategy for the Horde. But I feel like the Alliance forces have the "anvil" but not the "hammer". Yes, the Alliance occupies southern Barrens, but there's nothing to prevent the Horde from expanding north through Ashenvale and possibly Felwood. If possible, it would be better if the Night Elves mustered a force and pushed south through Ashenvale while the Human forces pushed north through the Barrens.

Failing that, an Alliance raid against Bloodhoof village would be relatively fast and would harass the Tauren, not to mention break some of TB's supply lines.

Sylvanas really is the success story of the expansion so far, the forsaken are the only faction that as far as I can tell have an unblemished record in this expansion in so much as all of Sylvanas' attacks on alliance (or neutral in the case of gilneas at the time) have resulted in ground being gained, the forsaken have consistenly been on the front foot in all military matters, I think the forsaken have expanded considerabley and am not aware of any sacrifices (in terms of territiory) that had to be made, whereas most other races have had some losses and some gains.

However her methods and tactics lead me to believe that there has to be some comeuppance for Sylvanas, she created the plague (pre-wrathgate we know she knew of it's development and effects), lied about it when it was used against her knowledge (wrathgate, oh noe woe is me i has been betrayed) and has since shown that she is willing to use not only biological/chemical warfare (WMDs) but has shown she is not above a spot of necromancy and mind control when it suits her needs.

She needs a plated boot up the ass, and it's funny, there are two local factions who are fond of the old plate and less fond of the scourge, and Sylvanas has recently kidnapped/god knows what else one of the most militant of the two faction's members. I'd love to see the Archerus hovering menacingly over the Undercity.

Nope. You nearly pointed it otherwise out, why it is not pointless. Andorhal forces the grip on the WPL and the connection to silvermoon. Thats something the other horde parts have lost through alliance and cataclysm: Thunderbluff and Ogrimmar have no clear support route to each other. They lost the barrens to alliance and deathwing and have to ship their goods through alliance (ashenvale) or contested (barrens) territory. Sylvanas controls most parts of the plaguelands and the route to silvermoon.

How exactly Alliance control's Arathi? They only have refuge camp there, and Horde have 2 military installations. So clearing Andorhal seems logical to me.

Night Elves are clearly loosing in Ashenvale, Horde now have Aszhara, and even moved to Darkshore. And with Feathermoon Stronghold destroyed they lost ground in Feralas too. Presence in Winterspring is kind of pointless from military point.

But what baffles me the most is situation in Southern Azeroth. Grom'gol is basically a trade outpost and not fortified, and I doubt that Alliance will waste resources to march into jungle. Yet for some reasons humans started campaign in worthless Swamp of Sorrows (Stonard, again is not fortified). While you can travel from Swamp to Redrige and Duskwood, I doubt that army can march through mountains (or Deadwind Pass). And if Alliance wanted to cut off Horde from Dark Portal - why not attack Dreadmaul Hold first?

But all pales before main mystery: how the hell Horde built New Kargath?

The Searing Gorge is just around the corner, and the Thorium Brotherhood is still a neutral faction willing to trade with both alliance and horde, so it's conceivable they traded... whatever... with them for metal and other supplies.

Haven't seen changes in Ferals, so you probably right here =). As for Swamp of Sorrows: while there are of course stories how armies successfully crossed mountains, you can't take heavy equipment or war machines (and marching through creepy and dangerous Deadwind Pass... not good. And it's probably easier to attack Duskwood from Grom'gol). Besides, you need to actually bring expedition force to Swamp of Sorrows and it could only be Outland's army.


As for trading with Thorium Brotherhood, that seems plausible. I still wonder how would they transfer recruits though (flightmasters? =)).

There is now a dock at Bogpaddle in Swamp of Sorrows. Nearby there is basically a smooth highway through Redridge into the Burning Steppes. It is possible, although slightly unlikely that they could have used that route to get materials/troops to New Kargath. Or, after looking at the map, they shipped stuff in via the Fuselight-by-the-sea port city on the eastern coast of the Badlands.

Indeed they are neutral, but I'm sure for the right price they will let you use the dock. Hell, how did the Alliance get the materials to make their fort nearby?

Also if the Horde did take the highway, chances are likely they would have been attacked by the Blackrock Orcs. I recall someone wondering how they got Kodos for mounts, well hitting Horde Caravans would be a good way to get some.

There's actually a very amusing Alliance quest to read Horde plans at the Dark Portal. 10 second channel to read and you have to do it without being caught by 2 patrolling sentries, so the quest giver has deniability. While the post-Cataclysm Dark Portal shouldn't be much worry (the other end should be safely Illidan/KT/Legion free), the idea of constant bickering in the face of larger threats remains a constant.

Then on the reverse, as an Alliance "hero", I helped defend New Kargath. Rhea's quests in Badlands lead you through killing Black Dragonflight leaders while they assault/conquer New Kargath. Horde troops are actively in combat with black dragonflight minions - you ignore the Horde (well, they're valid targets, you could kill them if you truly desired) and kill the dragonflight targets for the quest, including two lieutenants who have taken over key Kargath structures. You then return to the quest giver and no Alliance quest giver mobilizes to roll over the weakened Horde position.

Overall military strategy is as strong as Blizzard makes it (not very). Individual military tactics are far worse, because zones or groups of zones were apparently given to different people to develop (based on some of the interviews - this is perfectly logical from a workload perspective), so each individual or group prosecuted the war at their own initiative. Some zones it involves phasing and taking enemy positions, some it means sniping enemies or their supplies (Alliance in SoS) while gaining no ground, and in some it means ignoring clear advantages without mitigating "we lack the resources to prosecute because of X." Nature of the development beast.


The Neutral goblin town in SoS point blank tells you they'll sell war supplies or anything directly to both factions simultaneously. Shipping some troops through (for a fee) would be nothing but profit to non-Bilgewater goblins.

Or rather, with the islands east of the Eastern Kingdoms? E.g. Pandaria is suspected to be in that sea rather than the one that we see on the world map.

It's possible the siege tank's parachute trip is a rare occurance. Bravo Company is completely cut off on one side by orcs, and there's a huge hole in the ground on the other. I'd wager Troteman pulled in every favour he had to get it delivered, Westfall citizens talk about the economic downturn constantly, and the oil has to come from somewhere.

Is there any mention of oil as a resource in WoW at all? Besides the Isle of Conquest, it seems to have no presence at all, but it's needed to fuel most if not all of the non-humanoid aspects of warfare.


edit - I'm not sure you can look at the teleport mechanic in War3 as something more than a game mechanic. In the new Swamp of Sorrows quests (and many other places in game you can see this happening), you have to kill warlocks who are maintaining a portal to allow troops into the area. Alliance troops are maintaining portals aswell. "Easy" teleporting like in War3 seems to only be doable in WoW to major cities, where perhaps there's a major concentration of magic so mages can feel where they need to go, and not end up teleporting into a village of hyena's or something.

edit2 - clarification