World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 67

Faldrath · 11/28/08, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Liebestod

Additionally, you'll note that all of the horde bases subsequent to Dragonblight don't have any Forsaken NPCs, I believe...

Nitpick, but there are Forsaken in Storm Peaks - an Apothecary, even (Apothecary Maple). I don't think Sylvanas would really have anything to gain by betraying the Horde - she is smart enough to know that she wouldn't stand a chance against the Alliance *and* the Horde.

xiaoxin21 · 11/28/08, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Liebestod

2. The incomplete Nexus War plot - iirc, the Nexus War was supposed to begin because Malygos was exposed to the Netherdragon eggs and "regained his sanity"... this might be elaborated on in Night of the Dragon, but it's frustratingly absent in WotLK.

Since this is about the book, going to violate and put a spoiler tag in case anyone wants to read the book without any story knowledge.

← Click Here

Veneda · 12/01/08, 6:16 AM

Originally Posted by Liebestod

5. Scourge Development - I'm not a fan of the singular focus on Arthas as the villain here. I mean, I think Blizz did an incredible job with him (would've liked to see more Matthias quests in other zones though), but it seemed to be at the expense of every other pre-existing Scourge character. We see Kel'Thuzad once in Borean Tundra. Anub'Arak, as mentioned, is shuffled off to Azjol-Nerub. None of the other Naxx bosses receive any development, though they could've easily been cool recurring characters throughout the content. There's pretty much zero lead-in for Naxx, especially for Horde, other than "Scourge bad, go kill."

To be fair, mayority of the Naxx bosses is introduced in Death Knight starting zone. Sure, in theory players sticking to their main characters won't see them - but in practice many players do at least starting DK zone to see new content, thus getting solid info on bosses like Instructor, Noth, Gothik, Baron or Patchwerk. There is also quite funny reference to Heigan there, but it can't be qualified as lore really.

Have to agree though - Arthas IS a big guy there, overshadowing every other scourge character. I can imagine some of the secondary characters that show up while leveling might appear in Icecrown as bosses (like this Val'kyr that ressurects Plunderer in UK), still - it's not nearly enough. Darakuru was promising secondary character, but he was sacrificed in order to make interesting ending of his quest line for non-raiders.

Leviathon · 12/01/08, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Liebestod

2. The incomplete Nexus War plot - iirc, the Nexus War was supposed to begin because Malygos was exposed to the Netherdragon eggs and "regained his sanity"... this might be elaborated on in Night of the Dragon, but it's frustratingly absent in WotLK. But even if we accept that maybe Blizzard left this stuff out because it wants to increase book sales, the Nexus War story is woefully incomplete so far. There's an abortive plotline about the Ethereals working with the Blue Dragons, which would've been supercool imo but which is never developed. The blue dragon presence in Crystalsong is unexplained (due to the zone being incomplete), so Dalaran seems to be floating around for no reason. There's no big leadup to the Malygos encounter either... I would've thought that Coldarra would receive some flying mount content leading up to fighting him. My guess is that Blizzard will sneak this content in in a later patch, but it's still somewhat odd if it would climax in a boss fight that's already been available for months. Right now the Blue Dragons are like the Naga of WotLK... you see them in a couple zones, then abandon them for a while, then return and suddenly kill their leader at the max level. Having Crystalsong and Coldarra fleshed out would have avoided this, but I fear the damage is done.

3. Dalaran - why? - Well, we know why Dalaran is supposed to be there - to help in the Nexus War. Except there are no quest NPCs there and Crystalsong Forest is incomplete, so no one really appears to be doing anything. There are a bunch of important lore characters just sitting around right now, and it's kinda sad. Hopefully it'll be fixed soon. Oh, and what happened to new stuff being at the Dalaran crater?

4. No Azjol-Nerub - Seriously bums me out that this zone was cut, there was a ton of potential for interesting lore about the Nerubians, the Aq'ir, the Faceless, C'Thun, and Yogg-Saron to be revealed... but I'm afraid it never will be unless Azjol-Nerub is added later as the Quel'Danas of WotLK. And I'm not sure this will happen ultimately. If Yogg-Saron ends up being the final boss of the Ulduar raid, then that pretty much kills the chances of there being an Azjol-Nerub zone/raid. Oh, and also seeing Anub'Arak killed like any other no-name boss is just sad. I was never a big Anub'Arak fan, but I know originally he was destined for more and he deserved better.

8. No foreshadowing - This thread has just been talking about this. There's nothing that really points to where we're going next. Maybe something will be added in a content patch, but I guess I'm mostly annoyed that Blizzard missed a great opportunity with the Emerald Dream quest.

I think it's very likely the whole plot with the Nether Dragons and Malygos was dropped a while ago. It seems they dropped a lot of their storylines for Borean Tundra since the Naga were supposed to have been melting the ice in Borean Tundra (it's even brought up in a Taunka quest that the snow is disappearing) but there is only 1 living Naga in all of Northrend. Quite a bit of lore is give in Night of the Dragon though that explains the Twilight Dragons and gives a pretty good hint about what the 'secret raid' will be after Ulduar while giving a reason why we go into the Obsidian Sanctum.

My guess is that Crystalsong will end up becoming a daily quest zone in 3.0.4 or 3.1 and will involve the 2 Dalaran factions.

It was disappointing to see Azjol-Nerub cut and my guess is that we will see Yogg-Saron being the final boss of the Ulduar raid judging by what Loken says in Storm Peaks. And recent lore out of Night of the Dragon makes a Azjol-Nerub raid seem even less likely over Grim Batol.

There hasn't been many hints about what the next expansion will be but if they follow what they said at Blizzcon 05 then the next expansion would be the Maelstrom with Azshara or Neptulon being the final encounter.

Liebestod · 12/01/08, 2:52 PM

Yea, I guess the possibility of dropped story threads can't be discounted. Argh. And as much as I hate to admit it, I could see Yogg-Saron being in Ulduar largely due to the lack of guesses of wtf else could be in that instance. And the longer it takes 3.1 to hit PTRs, the more I think they must be redesigning Ulduar to house the Yogg-Saron encounter, because it definitely didn't look like it could before.

And yea, I don't know why I failed to mention the Naxx bosses showing up in the Death Knight intro. I thought that was fantastic, and there should have been more stuff like that. But there wasn't. I think they did a good job with Drakuru, but I'm not a fan of trolls in general, so I don't give it much credit... obviously that might be unfair of me.

kalbear · 12/01/08, 5:04 PM

It will probably delve more on the "Nexus War" rather than the LK/Old God aspects of Northrend, given the existing spots, which fits the Dalaran-themed factions manning the outpost.

After Malygos' death, what "Nexus War" will actually exist? Isn't that the end of the war?

Emeraude · 12/01/08, 7:01 PM

There are multiple quests throughout Northrend that involve "Evil Saronite Ore" that effects you, as well as the people who are mining it and what-not. I was wondering if this means ALL Saronite, including the stuff we're making weapons and armor out of is evil, or if it's just particular places that are "leaking evil" so to speak?

Unlike Cobalt & Titanium, Saronite isn't a real metal...errr as far as I know.

Tirin · 12/01/08, 7:49 PM

I would imagine it is all Saronite. Presumably it is somehow linked to Yogg-SARON. I don't know how much it means though aside from showing how much of the land he holds sway in.

Darkrenown · 12/01/08, 8:13 PM

There's a horde quest to collect and examine Saronite in Agmar's hammer. The blacksmith there says there's "live" Saronite, also called the Blood of Yogg-Saronth, which is apparently what the Scrourge have made their walls out of, it's is incredible strong, almost impossible to forge and "evil". There's also "dead" saronite which is what we mine and craft, no one seems to be bother about it being evil and doesn't seem as good as titansteel.

Tyrian · 12/01/08, 8:39 PM

but there is only 1 living Naga in all of Northrend

I would think this is a very conscious design decision. Specifically to give us 2 relatively naga-free years so Naga feel somewhat 'new again' when they release a Maelstrom expansion - which would be full to the brim with them.

Steveharris · 12/01/08, 8:40 PM

I think Black Blood of Yogg-Saron - Quest - World of Warcraft is the quest. It's kinda sketchy, but it doesn't seem to specifically differentiate between normal Saronite, and Evil Scourge Saronite. That being said, I don't think blizz will pull a fast one in some patch and suddenly everyone that has Saronite in their bags goes nuts.

Emeraude: adamantite, fel iron, hell, most of the metals in game aren't real either. I think this was just a case of delegating the naming of something to the committee that came up with "Brutallus", "Gigantaur", etc.

bv728 · 12/01/08, 9:07 PM

The Scourge/Iron Dwarf Saronite is according to a questline in Storm Peaks, unnaturally pure - that is, it is actually directly the Blood of Yogg-Saron, and not just normal Saronite, which is inoffensive enough.

Kumar · 12/02/08, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by kalbear

After Malygos' death, what "Nexus War" will actually exist? Isn't that the end of the war?

Well, can we actually have the absence of an aspect or flight? I think thats the main question. Deathwing has been confirmed to be alive, so Malygos would be the first aspect to die. I would like to see the storyline evolve into Kalcegos stepping up and becoming the sane leader of the Blue Dragonflight again.

As for the unknown 3.2 raid, we also have the possibility of additional raids in Chamber of the Aspects.

As for Ulduar I think Thorim will come back as a raid boss. The end of the questline is convenient enough for this. Whether we save him or kill him remains to be seen.

Something else to think about - 3.1 will introduce T8. Blizzard mostly spreads out Tier drops accross different raids, so I would assume another raid or two to accompany Ulduar.

Tyrian · 12/02/08, 12:53 AM

I would be quite satisfied if they could tie-up the the Nexus war ending through: Malygos' death, Crystalsong forest and Kalegos (as the new Blue aspect).

Perhaps a scenario like: The remnants of the Blue Dragonflight siege control of Crystalsong with the intention of a last-chance invasion to destroy Dalaran. Players (with the aid of Kalecgos) have to fight to regain control of the zone in phases through daily's, similar to the Isle. Once control is reinstated, Kalecgos becomes the aspect and the war is considered over. It could be quite immersing, given that our central city-hub we love to hang out in, is directly floating over a warzone. Everyone will feel like there is a war happening around them, as opposed to having to 'fly out to the isle' to see the action.

The most dissappointing thing about the whole Nexus war story is: it really feels like it's over before it began. Did we blink and miss the action? If the current content is all Blizzard had in mind on this topic, they really have missed out on a good opportunity to develop an exciting story further.

Perhaps they made a conscious choice to focus more on developing the scourge story for WOTLK and leave the Blue Dragons to the sidelines. Otherwise they would run risk of having too many simultaneous diluted story arcs - instead of a single, more compelling primary one (Arthas) for your average player to follow.

Emeraude · 12/02/08, 1:54 AM

Personally I'm curious as to how a "New Leader" for the Blue Dragonflight would fill the void left by Malygos. Malygos was an Aspect, in terms of power vs the other dragons in their flights, the Aspects themselves are extremely powerful, and a step above your average dragon. Nefarian/Onyxia are no Deathwing, Vael is certainly not on the level of Alexstrasza, Kalecgos was defeated in Sunwell and is obviously not as powerful as Malygos.

Would placing Kalecgos as the leader of the Blue Dragonflight really have any meaning? Their leader would be a weakling, I think it's possible that one of the 4 other Aspects would take up the charge of watching over the remaining blues. Alexstrasza in this case would be a likely candidate, but I suppose time will tell.

I just don't see much meaning in any "normal" dragon being the leader of an entire Flight, if they themselves are not particularly strong.