He means the events at Warsong Hold whereupon Garrosh was a blithering idiot, such as neglecting everything but "the warrior spirit of the Horde" for the assault on Icecrown Citadel and sending us--alone--to take care of a threat that required Saurfang's intervention for us to survive--in other words, it makes sense if the "screaming meathead" portrayal is all but removed, save for the meeting in Dalaran.

Of course they do. The characters are weak. This is a good attempt at making Garrosh better, and to an extent it does. But it does so by introducing events that we were never told about. I mean pillaging Razor Hill by Tiragarde. That's a huge event, Razor Hill isn't some little hamlet, it is a pretty big town for the Orc nation, yet we are never told about it. But apparently it happened all the way back at the Zombie Invasion times.
It is extremely easy to just insert patches of "well you weren't there, but these unknown big events did stuff we just didn't tell you about until AFTER presenting this idiot." The Shattering is in the same mould. They create events we can't know unless we read it, yet they assume it makes sense to people that don't. The game(s) is the center, the stories to add or expand the ingame stories, not create what is effectively excuses and turnarounds. The only tactical or strategic moves we have seen from Garrosh in the game have been poor, his selection of commanders has been poor (something that continues mind you). Yet, we hear he is a good tactician... Let me spill it out simply, what the fuck?! And they continue with the crap, look at the 'move' to Twilight Highlands, Garrosh yet again leaves what he has for a brain at home (I would assume it is Spiced Bread), and acts exactly like he did at Warsong Hold. But he is a brilliant tactician right? So it doesn't matter. They can fill Cataclysm up with him pulling iditic moves, as long as the lore tells us he is a brilliant tactician. It doesn't ring a bit hollow?

It is a poor execution of getting what they want. They could have achieved as much, if not better, by simply having Garrosh confess to Thrall silently that he learned a great deal from Varok, including battlefield ethics, but that the old Orc is worn down and no longer ruthless enough. It would be the truth, Varok isn't capable of command of actual war any longer, his emotions are shredded, they were even before the Wrathgate. And it would show that Garrosh is capable of learning, of having some sense (at times at least) and respecting those who have done stuff.
If they embraced the faults they had put into the characters, then I at least would like them. Instead they try to ignore what they dislike by creating bypasses.

By doing it like this, by clamping their hands over their ears while they go "lalalalala", to the critique Garrosh has recieved, they take a piss on those people that are actually slightly literally inclined. I know we are possibly not that many in WoW, but it still counts. That makes me dislike Garrosh as he is one great set of contradictions, only his personality is actually well done by now (they have at least come that far).

Telling stories (as this really is) is like many other fields of art. If you make a flaw, or mistake, you don't try to make a convoluted escape out of it, you continue with it as if it was intended. The greatest pianoplayers (and I assume this applies to all musicians) are greater than the really good players, not because they make less mistakes, but because they play on and work with them, while the really good ones stutter slightly. This is audible enough to make a difference, most of us can't pin it down to that of course.

The work on Garrosh has been one stutter after another, and it makes him a dispicable character. I don't like characters I'm told to like or accept, not like this.

The worst part, they have still not explained his incredible doublestandards. Garrosh at Warsong Hold "But surely you cannot think that those children were born into innocence? They would have grown up and taken arms against us!" But when one of his appointed commanders acts in a fashion befitting the quote, he is insulted. Now it is clear from the story that somewhere along the lines, he took to heart what Saurfang said, but look at it from a player's perspective, we are never told that he changed his policy, making it equally correct to assume he never announced a change of his position. That he needs to inform Krom'gar that he learned not to kill innocents, he confirms that not only did he previously support such action, but that he never actually told people he no longer does (I mean a general doesn't know his commanding officer's position on killing innocents?). No wonder Krom'gar is surprised and confused, much like I was.
And his treatment of heroes. Heroes that have killed everything the Horde has thrown at them, including Illidan, banished Kil'jaeden, slain an Old God, kicked Ragnaros' nuts. They are not good enough for him so he insults them (by either claiming they smell of fear and won't last long, or by telling them to run away), despite his endless tirades about strength and honor and being good warriors and strong for the Horde. What has the hero not done? No, the fact is that he doesn't actually trust it, his words are hollow and he uses them only when they fit his agenda. When the hero has finally helped him, he is finally accepting. He should be bloody happy such illustrious heroes deign him a second glance (personally I didn't after my first visit to Borean Tundra, but that was because it being a much poorer place to level) and help him out in what is clearly a problematic situation, at that time he has done nothing at all worth mentioning.
So be what he says everyone should be like, and he still treats you like trash, follow up on his only known beliefs, and he murders you. And I could even have accepted that too, had they built it into him (to like a character I don't need them to be good or evil, a dumbass can be likeable as a character too), but with the recent story that isn't how he is presented. So we have two different Garroshes, the story Garrosh that is perhaps arrogant and prideful, but a great commander and will fight for the sake of his people and their right to exist. On the other hand we have the game Garrosh that is an idiot in military terms, says one thing and does another thing and treats even heroes like manure.

It is that disconnect that is so damning for his character.

I lurk in this thread and post on an intermittent basis. I like to think I'm at least reasonably familiar with lore and the background of WoW. As such, I'm finding one portion of the Cataclysm quests (the old world leveling already available ones) severely lacking. There is an enormous number of things which simply are not explained or mentioned in-game. Blizzard is more and more assuming that everyone reads and is familiar with extensive tracts of out-of-game information.

What happened to Stormwind (this is rhetorical, please don't answer)? I know from the trailer that Deathwing flew over, was mean, and left clawmarks on the front. But in-game there is absolutely no reference to the park being destroyed, other than a huge crater (oddly labeled the Old Barracks, when it was clearly a park for the last 6 years). The Keep has been rebuilt/redesigned and even has a nifty ornamental waterfall/fountain (but Varian doesn't have resources to help Westfall or Redridge...).

What the hell happened to Southshore and Hillsbrad (again rhetorical)? I've done every single quest I could find on the Eastern Continents and the closest I've seen a reference was some quest ender (don't remember which) saying that I must have been sent from the ruins of Southshore (I got the quest nowhere near that zone, since Hillsbrad has no Alliance quests (only the neutral Brazzie ones)).

We have remnants of a war between the Alliance and Horde, such as new fortifications across the Barrens. There are quests and references to needing to beef up and resupply these efforts. I expect Kalmidor quests may explain some of the attack, how it occurred, failures, etc - recall I've only done EKingdoms.

There's a lot of areas and NPCs just hanging out all over both continents with a "What, I've always been here. Nothing to see here." attitude. Many in brand new locations that didn't exist pre-cataclysm.

In short the post-cataclysmic Azeroth does not seem tied to the pre-cataclysmic Azeroth at all. Before, <discontinuity>, after. What happened between? Very few zones/NPCs reference it. Only a very few of the new zone designers tackled an explanatory task. Current quests all deal with the how things are. There is little to no reference to changes which occurred.

Example: If I started entirely new to Warcraft today I'd have absolutely no idea that Hearthglen hasn't always been controlled by the Argent Crusade.

I'm all for external sources supporting and building more lore for the game, that's fine. But when it's the exclusive source for this lore you have a flawed game. It cannot stand on its own. This has disappointed me to date, which is a real shame because a lot of the quests themselves are leaps and bounds better than vanilla.

Many of the quests do mention things pre-cata, though. Some even use it as a punch line (Cursed Orb in Wetlands is a prime example). Un'Goro mentions that they had to ditch their old camp, Gagdetzan has you rescue people at the docks, STV works off the assumption that all the badguys of ZG were defeated by players (and they throw in the ultimate "HAHA!" to the playerbase of all time when -you- get farmed for a raptor mount). Etc, etc.

I think there is a throw away line of Tirion taking over Hearthglen, but to be honest that whole area was off the beaten path in it's original form and alot of people didn't even know it was there.

I've done Duskwood -> Northern STV -> Southern Barrens -> Western Plaguelands -> Eastern Plaguelands -> Badlands on the Alliance side and congratulations are in order. The quest flow is very smooth and fast (at times, too fast, but that's my fault, for doing so many dailies and still picking on the habit of reading the whole quest text), the lore is very good - it really makes you feel important. All in all, the leveling experience is near perfect.

Only downside...the video in which Deathwing vaporizes Rhea, in the final Badlands chain, is lackluster. No voice whatsoever, and that alone would make the cutscene a disappointment, but then there's Deathwing's using the typical "Dragon Breath" animation, swinging his head from side to side when he just needed to aim forward. It's a pity because this is the most important moment (lorewise) I've experienced, until now (level 50ish). And I suspect it will remain so until 80.

Still, this doesn't tarnish anything: right now, even with my eagerness to reach 80, WoW is one of the most entertaining games I've ever played, in single-player .

Blizzard is incredibly good at overall storytelling. From the start of a (new) quest to the end you get a very good, coherent story. The revamped old content is simply a phenomenal leap and bound beyond the original vanilla quest content and structure.

My issue is entirely with the link between past and present. Westfall has plenty of "there sure are a lot of indigents here", with no reference to why or when they appeared. While they are most likely a consequence of the Cataclysm itself they could just as easily have moved in when the Defias were defeated and VC beheaded. A simple "Poor sods are fleeing Stormwind to make a new life, and they're denied even that" would be sufficient. Bogpaddle has a "What, we've always been here" impression to it. Heck, Sorrowmurk has been established, stocked, and then raided. Was that since Cataclysm? Again a simple "We've been here a week and immediately were raided" would link things. They're present, gilgoblins raided them, most of the (non-gil) goblins are dead. Because of the Cataclysm? Not related to it? In spite of it? Who knows - and that's my point.

It's like if in BC the Draenei areas had no reference to the Exodar crash, or the Blood Elves had no reference to their addition to magic and issues due to deprivation. Or Wrath and Death Knights did not have their starting zone quests to explain their story.

In short we just need the "collect magic bear asses" to be followed with "because the Cataclysm scared all the normally edible animals away" equivalents. The Dwarf starting quests actually do this, while a lot of zones shrug it off. Again, at the whim of the zone designers.

Since I haven't done Kalimdor I'm simply trusting that the Alliance military in the Barrens actually explain their failed (due to the Shatterning) assault as part of their quest text. I'll be very disappointed when I get back around to that in a few months and find "collect magic bear asses for musket warmers" and the impression they've been camped in the Barrens since time immemorial.

My newest beef is the Thrall-at-the-maelstrom cutscene. I, like many folks I know, play with WoW sounds disabled (they can become very annoying and repetitive in a raid, especially during any vent usage). This is the first cutscene where there was no subtitling. As far as I knew it was just a visual circling Thrall, until my girlfriend did the quest with sound and I heard all the speech. Sound can be disabled - it's a feature you're giving your customer. Assuming it is not disabled is just making asses of everyone. I'm now paranoically wondering if there's other important voice-only information that may be involved in questing or dungeons that I could miss or have already missed.

One of the Westfall quests, or perhaps NPC's random gossip (sorry >_<) mentioned something along the lines of, once the war in Northrend was over, people who didn't have a job in the army were finding themselves out of luck, and out of the job. I can't remember if they said much else, such as why, but I'm sure it's atleast mentioned offhand.

I have only done Vashj'ri so far, but that place is chocked full with voice acting. The Naga alone are very chatty, as the zone has such a huge focus on them.

Speaking of that zone, I absolutely love all the Naga information we got there. Nice to finally get the view of some other Naga about Lady Vashj. Looks like she wasn't too popular with some of the other Matrons.

I've done some light questing in Vashj'ir as well as Blackrock Caverns, Throne of the Tides, and Vortex Pinnacle. There was definitely voice acting (of good caliber) from my girlfriend's speakers, but every case was matching in-game text from the speaker, which salves my major worries. This matches previous standards (BC had this, don't recall it happening in Vanilla), which makes that Thrall cutscene more stand out for its lack of subtitles. Anyone who has already done it who has an 80 alt should experiment with clicking the far seeing water with sound disabled - it becomes eerily devoid of meaning. The voice acting really carries the context of Thrall barely holding things together at the seams - without it you could interpret Thrall's stance and the lightning into the Maelstrom as anywhere from benign to malevolent. I continue to hope it's the only text-less oversight.

I understand, to some extent, disabling sounds in a raid or even heroic 5man environment, but disabling them while questing is simply turning off half of the game to me. Ok, maybe not half, but in terms of importance, it ranges somewhere close to quest texts.

Well, the first one ("The Shattering") dealt with a void in lore - no one knew what had happened between Icecrown and Cataclysm - but I'm guessing this one covers the "playable" Cataclysm. So, I'm going to rush in and say that one shouldn't be expecting big developments like someone being slain in a duel or a throne being fought for by three factions. More likely, Christie Golden will be giving us an insight on the known story like she did in the Rise of the Horde books.

We already know dragons are going through some hard times. One of them is down, another is putting the planet in danger - and, let's face it, about to be put down as well - the two most active ones are hard pressed (actually, Alextrasza has been pressed hard into the ground) and Nozdormu is his old self. And everyone's flights are being slaughtered.

A while ago it was suggested Thrall might be covering in for Deathwing, but now we know a new Black Dragon is coming - without a female, which is strange...

Overall, though, the future doesn't seem that bleak. While the Reds might become more reclusive and aggressive - again - greens are taking a greater part in the world's issues and Blues will have many amends to make soon enough. With Blacks being restored - in the long run - and as long as Bronzes remain on the good side, we've seen worse.