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Old 03/03/11, 7:07 AM   #10186
Zaniel
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Aggramar
So now that MMO has mined some information regarding the new caster legendary, I'm really more curious by the quests and lore possibilities than the legendary itself. It seems like Anachronos is going to show us "our future," and that a recent point in the past (surrounding the Nexus) has been obscured from his sight.

My thinking is that it's probably Maly's death that was obscured, since weren't those two supposedly good friends? And if that IS the event, then the obscurer... might have been Alexstrasza. Could we be witnessing the event that brings about Anachronos' madness? Something has to happen for us to need to kill him and thus wipe out all dragon aspects on Azeroth, right?
(The last sentence was sarcastic, mostly.)

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Old 03/03/11, 8:19 AM   #10187
Fnar
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Malygos and Deathwing were always 'best buddies' if memory serves me with Nozdormu (Anachronos is his heir) tending to be more standoffish and generally more concerned with the infernal timeline (although that may have just been during WotA).

If it was a recent event in Coldarra, then it seems very likely that this was Malygos' death which was obscured, but WHY?? Alexstrasza (and Wyrmrest for that matter) was pretty up front about Malygos needing to die and I don't think that there was any point in the encounter when it looked like redemption might be a possiibility. His death nor it's manner has never been a mystery to anyone as far as i know (unlike Bolvarking). Also when discussing matters with Krasus (i think during DotD), he seems pretty philosophical about the eventual downfall of himself and Malygos

“Know that I now asssk for forgiveness for the wrongs I will caussse you in the future, but I mussst be what I am destined to be... as Malygos is.”
I hate to effectively Godwin* the thread, but could it be that Malygos was not killed but rather appeared to die and then a nearby old god (good old yoggy) empowers and enslaves him. Nexus was merely a setback?

*In wow terms, saying that someone is alive and XXXX was merely a setback must be tantamount to a Godwin by now

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Old 03/03/11, 8:36 AM   #10188
Nathanyel
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First, Anachronos is not the Aspect of Time (yet), but Nozdormu
Second, while reading the quest texts on MMO, I first thought the "event" was the Shattering, but was surprised when he mentioned the Nexus - however, I doubt the event was simply Malygos' death though, of that, he surely must've heard earlier than that, either through the other dragons or even us mortals.
I rather think this has to do with Deathwing/the Old Gods, e.g. trying to influence the succession, infiltrating and corrupting the blues. That, or the blues themselves placed the shroud, to hide something to which the other dragonflights might've objected. Doesn't necessarily lead to them becoming an enemy, though.

At any rate, the involvement of the blue dragonflight, the keepers of magic, ties in well with a "caster" legendary.

Tender Puregrove: It's those little victores that keep me going. We'll save this forest one squirrel at a time.

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Old 03/03/11, 9:38 AM   #10189
Exemplar
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Originally Posted by Fnar View Post
I hate to effectively Godwin* the thread, but could it be that Malygos was not killed but rather appeared to die and then a nearby old god (good old yoggy) empowers and enslaves him. Nexus was merely a setback?
I'm more worried that we'll suddenly find out Arthas wandered into the EoE after we killed Malygos and there's another undead Dragon running about. Because there's never enough dragon bosses, much less undead ones. And back editing some more activity for the now-dead Arthas is just what the players would love to see. Everyone loves a casual and unnecessary retcon.

I happen to like dragons and the concept of dragons, but I'm burnt out on their ubiquity as dungeon and raid bosses. Been there, done that. More patches have contained dragons than otherwise - by a landslide. In Wrath every single tier had a dragon (most had multiple) - ToC almost got away without one, but they re-released Ony to make up for the lack.

Warcraft has such a rich textural history and the Dragonflights barely impacted the RTS games. Now they seem the backbone of many plot threads, if not the sole counterpoint to the overarching Old Gods thematic element. If they're a shrinking group with waning power compared to the lesser races, why does so much revolve around them? It feels like lazy storytelling - they're just easy places to hang a plot hook, both benevolent and malevolent.

I always thought humanity produced an astonishing number of evil individuals, but dragons take the cake. Humanity may have a ratio of one truly evil person in a thousand or lower (with plenty of not evil, but stupid/lazy enough to go with the flow), but with dragons the ratio of evil looks closer to 50%. For every pleasant dragon we meet, there's another wicked evil Black/Infinite dragon, or insane/twisted/tormented (poor Keristrasza) dragon from another flight.

I'm hard pressed to tie together Bronze flight, Coldarra/Blue Flight, and collecting items from the Firelands. Shadowmourne collection quests made sense in collecting Saronite (used to arm and armour Arthat's elite troops) and shards of the Throne. Collecting items from Ragnaros or the Firelands in general has no link of which I am aware to any of the dragonflights, beyond possible "It takes magic to get there and magic is bad" handwaving.

Best case the obscurity is covering something like the ascension of the new Blue Flight Leader. Someone decisive who would actually rally the remaining blues and ally with the other flights for a final confrontation against Deathwing. In short, something that furthers the plot of Cata as a whole, not a red herring or groan inducer.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

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Old 03/03/11, 10:24 AM   #10190
Mr. Crow
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Originally Posted by Exemplar View Post
Best case the obscurity is covering something like the ascension of the new Blue Flight Leader. Someone decisive who would actually rally the remaining blues and ally with the other flights for a final confrontation against Deathwing. In short, something that furthers the plot of Cata as a whole, not a red herring or groan inducer.
Wasn't the new leader of the Blue Flight / Aspect of Magic revealed to be Kalecgos at BlizzCon?

Assuming that's still the case (Metzen has been overruled before) then why would there be any reason to conceal his ascension into that role?

Why would the Blues want to hide an event from the Bronzes if that event would unquestionably be positive for all the non-Black Flights?

One has to consider who would have the ability to hide something in time from Anachronos. He specified that it was powerful magic. Magic == Blues, which can lead to a possible conclusion where Someone is doing Something with Malygos' still-bleeding corpse. The Heart of Magic, which is apparently linked to Malygos' status as Aspect, was taken by Alexstrasza, so it should no longer be there.

"Powerful magic" could also mean Deathwing, since he's been overcharged by the Old Gods and is substantially more burly than ever before. Maybe he's retrieving the Arcanomicon from the Eye? Having a map of all the Ley Lines of the world would be useful, given that Malygos was close to blowing up the world by screwing with them, and since blowing up the world is what DW and the Old Gods are all about, it might be something worth kidnapping.

The other really strong possibility is Nozdormu himself, when it comes to someone who could obscure an event in time from the Guardians of Time. I actually think this is the strongest possibility, since it'll tie in with the CoT:WotA raid, AND tie the Infinite Dragonflight story in with Cataclysm. Hopefully we won't actually end up killing Nozdormu, because like you Exemplar, I'm sick of killing the gods because they go crazy.

To go back to your earlier comment of dragons being overly-common boss encounters... everyone with an interest in fantasy has a basic understanding that Dragons Are Powerful, and overcoming the powerful is a huge psychological reward. If you want to introduce a different monster of some kind, you have to spend time leveraging how powerful they are, because it can't be assumed at face value.

Burning Crusade was able to do this with a minimum of dragon bosses (CoT: Black Morass, CoT: Hillsbrad, Felmyst, Netherspite, Nightbane... that's it, right?) because the Legion was pre-established as powerful in WC3, and a lot of time was spent building them up in quests and world encounters. Perhaps the over-use of dragons in Wrath was compensating for a dearth of dragon-fights in BC?

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Old 03/03/11, 2:57 PM   #10191
Exemplar
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Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by Mr. Crow View Post
Wasn't the new leader of the Blue Flight / Aspect of Magic revealed to be Kalecgos at BlizzCon?

Assuming that's still the case (Metzen has been overruled before) then why would there be any reason to conceal his ascension into that role?
To my understanding: Yes. But this either hasn't yet occurred in-game, or at least our characters have yet to learn it has occurred. Additionally, yes, it's always possible it is/was overturned/changed before it goes in-game.

Deathwing is vastly powerful. Hiding a possibly weak (still learning?) Flight Leader from him seems sufficient motivation. A general obscuring spell (Arcane magic: home of the Blue) could be powerful enough (Kalec coming into his own) or mis-cast (neophyte Kalec) to also obscure it from temporal vision. Not intentional, but it happened.

I'm hoping the hidden from Anachronos angle is just a clever plot lead-in with red herring capability. Natural assumption is Infinite or similar anti-Bronze agency. Finding out it's not nefarious, but beneficial becomes a surprise. And if it is a new Blue Leader, someone willing to bestow shiny powerful magical weaponry (must supply own mats!) on humans amply shows a huge turnaround in agenda from that of Malygos.

Still unsure on the Firelands angle. Especially if you add in the fact that this Legendary will be obsoleted by the Deathwing raid, unless Blizzard suddenly reverses previous decisions about not upgrading Legendaries. So it can't even be considered a gift to defeat the big bad. Finally it makes more sense to have Neptulon assistance, since we worked with his Hydraxians against Rags the last time 'round.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

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Old 03/03/11, 4:24 PM   #10192
Kaejin
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Mal'Ganis
The moment I saw "Nexus" I thought it was a tongue-in-cheek about the way the Nexus War plot line from Wrath was handled poorly. It was a major lore thing all the way while leveling, and was the entire reason Dalaran was floating over Crystalsong. Yet we killed Malygos, Aspect of Magic, in the first tier or raiding to minimal applause and absolutely no follow up to something that would have a huge impact on the lore. So now we get Anachronos going "lol I don't even know what happened."

Anyway, I think Firelands is only relevant because getting powerful fire elemental hearts to reforge the Eye of Time seems appropriate. Not because there's any connection between Firelands and the Bronze Flight, but because you've got to use something to reforge powerful artifacts and Firelands holds a rather convenient source.

Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.

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Old 03/03/11, 7:48 PM   #10193
Malleus
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Bronze Dragonflight (EU)
Originally Posted by Exemplar View Post
Warcraft has such a rich textural history and the Dragonflights barely impacted the RTS games. Now they seem the backbone of many plot threads, if not the sole counterpoint to the overarching Old Gods thematic element. If they're a shrinking group with waning power compared to the lesser races, why does so much revolve around them? It feels like lazy storytelling - they're just easy places to hang a plot hook, both benevolent and malevolent.
That's the problem with a two-faction game which has symmetrical content. A member of the playable races has to sail far over the Moral Event Horizon before he can be used as a raid boss, because both sides have to think it's right to kill him. So most bosses wind up being under some form of absolute control, or from races that are either neutral or definitively antipathetic.

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Old 03/04/11, 3:20 AM   #10194
Fnar
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Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by Exemplar View Post

Warcraft has such a rich textural history and the Dragonflights barely impacted the RTS games. Now they seem the backbone of many plot threads, if not the sole counterpoint to the overarching Old Gods thematic element. If they're a shrinking group with waning power compared to the lesser races, why does so much revolve around them? It feels like lazy storytelling - they're just easy places to hang a plot hook, both benevolent and malevolent.
I think that the two things are inextricably linked though, the old gods began the decline of the flights over 10,000 years ago with the fall of Neltharion and the creation of the Demon Soul. We as mortals are now witnessing the effect that this gambit by the old gods has had there is already 1 aspect down and we will be killing another one in just over a year's time. The aspects were one of the security measures left by the titans to protect Azeroth from the Old Gods and now members of the black flight are working for the old gods, greens have an old god to contend with behind the emerald nightmare, the bronzes have been heavily involved in the AQ arc, the blues have been decimated (they may be regrouping but their flight was already tiny in number before the nexus war, and Alexstrasza's heir has now been killed by Sinestra. I think this is all leading up to the point where Dragons can eventually no longer play a leading role in events on Azeroth, and it is a recurring theme in fantasy that the older races eventually go into decline and younger mortal races take up the mantle of defenders of the world. So i guess before we can reach the point where Dragons are no longer front and centre, we need to finish the realisation of their decline.

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Old 03/04/11, 5:12 AM   #10195
snootay
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Thrall
Originally Posted by Exemplar View Post
Today's moral, children: Stealing is bad! But being told to steal, then doing it, is fine. Carry on. Young Oliver Twist, shut up and follow today's moral instruction.
My favorite moral statement in the history of WoW is when you try to loot a corpse that isn't lit up for you.

"That would be stealing!"

Killing the guy to take everything off his body is perfectly acceptable so long as it's your turn to loot a body. Otherwise, it would be stealing.

Originally Posted by Exemplar View Post
To my understanding: Yes. But this either hasn't yet occurred in-game, or at least our characters have yet to learn it has occurred. Additionally, yes, it's always possible it is/was overturned/changed before it goes in-game.
I'm not 100% positive seeing as I did the quests the day of Cataclysm's release and may be remembering incorrectly, but I'm pretty sure the quests in Azshara between Kalecgos and Azuregos announce to the player that Kalecgos is going to be the new Aspect of Magic and it ends with Azuregos promising to make sure it never actually becomes a reality and if it does to make sure he doesn't screw it up. So while it's not official yet, the seeds have been planted in game.

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Old 03/04/11, 7:13 AM   #10196
Bierzkrieg
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Burning Steppes (EU)
MMO-Champ mentionsan event called "Tarecgosa Intro". Trying not to read too much into it, but I think the rule "If it has an intro, it's an enemy" is fairly true. Well, apart from Thrall, but he runs Blizzard.

So we have an intro for a blue dragoness, a mention of "powerful magic" (the Blues' domain, as someone above pointed out) and something happening in the Nexus...I'd say them icy lizards are up to something - they might just have good intentions.

By the way, how would Kalecgos' ascension to Aspect of Magic work? Is he supposed to receive Malygos' power?

"Do you see what you get, Carla? Do you see what you get when you mess with the Warrior?"
Turk

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Old 03/04/11, 7:34 AM   #10197
Nathanyel
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"Intro" could just refer to some NPC appearing. Let's not overspeculate from scarce datamined stuff.

Tender Puregrove: It's those little victores that keep me going. We'll save this forest one squirrel at a time.

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Old 03/04/11, 7:42 AM   #10198
Bierzkrieg
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Burning Steppes (EU)
It's under the "phase" cathegory, alongside things such as "Forlorn Spire Assault", "ZG event" and "Hyjal Regrowth Invasion". So it's not "Intro" as in a boss making a speech as you enter his room.

My thesis was half-humorous, but the blues do have a history...

"Do you see what you get, Carla? Do you see what you get when you mess with the Warrior?"
Turk

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Old 03/09/11, 7:09 AM   #10199
Cybsled
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Doomhammer
MMO-Champ just posted an update re: Firelands. Based on the datamined info, Fandral Staghelm will be a raid boss. There is also a raid achievement for Alysra, the green dragon that transports him during that quest in Hyjal when they decide to move him from the prison.

I suppose the question is whether Alysra did this of her own free will, or if the Nightmare corruption played a hand in this?

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Old 03/09/11, 7:55 AM   #10200
Nathanyel
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I'm smelling another rescue encounter.

Tender Puregrove: It's those little victores that keep me going. We'll save this forest one squirrel at a time.

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