We're a 6/6 Sunwell guild who cleared the 25 man version of Naxx for the first time this week, having had no problems with most bosses including Patchwerk and 4H but we just couldn't kill Gluth. Kiting the zombies didn't work as the mages were running out of mana all the time using improved blizzard. The removing of downranking to stop the PVP whining really screwed us up in PVE, I used to have no problems with the kiting back in the old days using rank1 improved blizzard - this no longer works, obviously. We'll have to find a new tactic with hunter traps and earthbind totems. I haven't seen Sapphiron and KT yet in this version of Naxx, but Gluth is head and shoulders above the other bosses right now in terms of difficulty.
Any hints on how you arranged and successfully executed a kiting strategy in the 25-man version?
NOTE: Earlier on in this thread, somebody was talking about mages not being effective against Sapphiron because of frost immunity, this is not the case. Frostfire spec does very high damage on frost-immune mobs, it's only fire-immune mobs that would gimp its DPS since Ignite wouldn't work any more. You can look at some WWS parses floating around to verify this.
Piercing Howl kiting is the way to go, assisted by a frost mage, or possibly an elemental shaman, any kind of CC that helps the warrior works really nice such as frost nova, blast wave and all that stuff. Warrior can just PH entire time while getting the loose adds with Taunt/Weapon Throw/Charge(considering you are specced for Warbringer) and Intervene on the target .
An alternative is to do it like you did it at 60 and have a paladin put on RF, drop consecration on the healer clump and kite with mages/totems/traps assisting him with peels when needed. Put a priest on healing/shielding him and you'll find he can easily last till the desecrate before needed to bubble off his debuffs.
We use a ret and a prot pally to kite, and it works fine.
Thanks for the hints, we managed to get him down during last night's reset using a warrior specced into Piercing Howl and Shockwave, assisted by a hunter laying frost traps and a death knight, protadin and shammy helping him kite with earthbind totems.
How much raid dps do people put out normally on Instructor Razuvius in the 10-man version? We don't really have much trouble with any other fights than this one, but we have had a scarily high number of wipes on it, and seem to have to really push dps hard, with 16-17k rdps not being enough, in order to kill him before he murders the understudies. I've seen kills on WWS with sub 10k rdps, so I assume that the problem is our mindcontrollers messing up.
What they do is the first MC'er uses Bone Barrier right away and taunts - the second MC'er runs in a bit later to have the timers on the MC fade out of sync. When one understudy's bone barrier is about to expire a countdown is given on vent by the controller and the other controller uses Bone Barrier and then taunts. Most of the time the health of understudies goes down at steady pace - but they'll always take a couple of nasty spikes, 5%-10% health lost in a short amount of time. To me it seems like bone barrier falling off, but for some reason the buff doesn't seem to show for me on the mobs, so it's very hard to monitor if they're doing it right.
Ungeir, the Understudies can also take spikes when Razuvious crits. He will also use Unbalancing Strike which hits fairly hard (350% weapon damage if I remember correctly). If you suspect your controllers do not anticipate vent lag properly you should just ask them to monitor whether they call out a switch early enough and adjust accordingly.
No, you may not roll a spiked chain wielding half-ogre.
I would have a question regarding the Instructor either, but about the 25 man version.
So it came to pass, that we have only one priest raiding with our group regularly and since the 25 man version of Naxx doesn't have Mind Control pillars ... the question is: did anybody do it successfully somehow with only 1 priest in a raid? It would be really appreciated if you could share your thoughts or ideas on this matter.
On the other hand, this is quite frustrating from the side of Blizzard and I really hope that this is only an oversight. This goes against everything they have preached about before the expansion in the field of raid composition, stacking and the like.
I would have a question regarding the Instructor either, but about the 25 man version.
So it came to pass, that we have only one priest raiding with our group regularly and since the 25 man version of Naxx doesn't have Mind Control pillars ... the question is: did anybody do it successfully somehow with only 1 priest in a raid? It would be really appreciated if you could share your thoughts or ideas on this matter.
We have done it with 2 priests.
1 priest should be nearly impossible.
I dont think they will ever implement those pillars into the heroic version.
Originally Posted by Cascade
On the other hand, this is quite frustrating from the side of Blizzard and I really hope that this is only an oversight. This goes against everything they have preached about before the expansion in the field of raid composition, stacking and the like.
Encounter will always require a few things like here 2 priests. You cant call that stacking.
It seams pretty doable with one priest, as long as you have your usual tanks grab the Instructor for a few seconds while your priest gets a new mob.
Since you probably run the place with 3 tanks, they can do a rotation and use cooldowns to survive (SW, Last Stand, etc).
Also I think I read somewhere that having 2 priests in a 25 man is not considered a problem, therefor there is no issue from Blizzard's point of view with requiring 2 of one class for an encounter.
Hope I am not missing something, but it should be possible.
Piercing Howl kiting is the way to go, assisted by a frost mage, or possibly an elemental shaman, any kind of CC that helps the warrior works really nice such as frost nova, blast wave and all that stuff. Warrior can just PH entire time while getting the loose adds with Taunt/Weapon Throw/Charge(considering you are specced for Warbringer) and Intervene on the target .
We should've done that aswell tbh and for the record we've only done the 10man version and even used 2 mages for it (me being one of them).
But I'll atleast say how we did it. The difference between 10man and 25 man seem to be that he spawns 2 instead of 1 adds every 10 seconds and I'm assuming both spawn together from the same center-back grate.
1 Mage between grate and boss, around spawn other mage drags the kited mobs ontop/near. On spawn COC+frostnova new mobs + old mobs. frostnova is on 20 sec cooldown. Abuse the new Ice barrier talent (100% chance to frostnova anyone within X yards on break) and you get dual barriers. On decimate water ele for extra novas. The best is if one mage manages to keep all aggro whilst the other helps with CC on them (slowing+nova). Managems (with Serpent coil braid and/or 2pT7) + manapot + evocate will be necessary. All DPS should help on novad adds when decimate hits, especially anyone with AOE.
Gluth - On 10man we just used a dps warrior as offtank on Gluth, a hunter kept a frost trap down where the ranged stood, and a prot paladin kept aggro from them all and kited them through the frost trap the whole time with an occasional frost nova outside the trap. I expect this to work in 25man as well with an extra frost trap or two, and an extra frost nova for emergencies.
How much raid dps do people put out normally on Instructor Razuvius in the 10-man version? We don't really have much trouble with any other fights than this one, but we have had a scarily high number of wipes on it, and seem to have to really push dps hard, with 16-17k rdps not being enough, in order to kill him before he murders the understudies. I've seen kills on WWS with sub 10k rdps, so I assume that the problem is our mindcontrollers messing up.
What they do is the first MC'er uses Bone Barrier right away and taunts - the second MC'er runs in a bit later to have the timers on the MC fade out of sync. When one understudy's bone barrier is about to expire a countdown is given on vent by the controller and the other controller uses Bone Barrier and then taunts. Most of the time the health of understudies goes down at steady pace - but they'll always take a couple of nasty spikes, 5%-10% health lost in a short amount of time. To me it seems like bone barrier falling off, but for some reason the buff doesn't seem to show for me on the mobs, so it's very hard to monitor if they're doing it right.
I am having the same problem here. We just started 10 man Naxx, most of us still in t6 with some heroic gear and some others in mostly heroic gear. It seems like we can't keep the tanks alive long enough for use to down the boss at all, even with Bone Armor up the entire time. Their health just drops to nothing seemingly so quick, the furthest we got him down to was a bit under 50% before one of the tanks died.
I was watching some videos and reading on this and it seems no one else really has a problem with this.
Well there really is no trick to the encounter.
We do buff the underlings with amplify magic and whatever else on buffs we have.
We just cleared all 4 wings + sapphiron yesterday using two healers (priest/paladin).
Paladin on solo tank healing (the understudies of course), priest keeps group up and throws a shield on the tanking study when he/she has the time. Understudies survive with arround 5-15% health.
Just go all out on dps, you wont pull aggro.
Might be a stupid question, but your healers are spam healing the understudies right?
With a correct rotation of the mind control you should have very little to heal on the adds for the duration of the fight.
Try to never have an understudy tanking when not using Bone Shield - and it is possible, you just might have a short blip at some point due to MC durations expiring.
It seams pretty doable with one priest, as long as you have your usual tanks grab the Instructor for a few seconds while your priest gets a new mob.
Since you probably run the place with 3 tanks, they can do a rotation and use cooldowns to survive (SW, Last Stand, etc).
Also I think I read somewhere that having 2 priests in a 25 man is not considered a problem, therefor there is no issue from Blizzard's point of view with requiring 2 of one class for an encounter.
Hope I am not missing something, but it should be possible.
I thought Blizzard's new philosophy was, "Take the player, not the class"?
We are about to reach Gluth on 10-man Naxx, our group consists of two paladin tanks. From what I have read, this fight requires 3 tanks, so will a DK in mainly DPS gear be fine as an OT on this?
After a few attempts our 25 man group finally got the charges sorted out (stacked in two groups, same charge stack on tank, different charge stack behind tank), and bar a couple of random deaths due to lag or w/e, we seem to be maximising our DPS this way, yet we still have around 25% when he berserked.
Is this simply a DPS deificiency, or is there something we're missing?
We have about half the raid that hasn't even stepped foot into Naxx 10 and wearing level 70 gears
I thought Blizzard's new philosophy was, "Take the player, not the class"?
We are about to reach Gluth on 10-man Naxx, our group consists of two paladin tanks. From what I have read, this fight requires 3 tanks, so will a DK in mainly DPS gear be fine as an OT on this?
Nope. 3 tanks is by no means required. Put a half competent Mage or Ret Paladin on the kiting and you will be fine.
An alternative is to do it like you did it at 60 and have a paladin put on RF, drop consecration on the healer clump and kite with mages/totems/traps assisting him with peels when needed. Put a priest on healing/shielding him and you'll find he can easily last till the desecrate before needed to bubble off his debuffs.
We use a ret and a prot pally to kite, and it works fine.
Divine Shield will not remove Infected Wound. I don't know if it did at 60 but it most certainly doesn't now. I'm going to assume Ice Block won't get rid of it either.
Also, note that Infected Wound will NOT apply if a zombies' attack is absorbed. The zombies hit for about 300 when you have no debuffs, so PW:S and Sacred Shield will delay you getting any debuffs for quite a while.
After a few attempts our 25 man group finally got the charges sorted out (stacked in two groups, same charge stack on tank, different charge stack behind tank), and bar a couple of random deaths due to lag or w/e, we seem to be maximising our DPS this way, yet we still have around 25% when he berserked.
Is this simply a DPS deificiency, or is there something we're missing?
We have about half the raid that hasn't even stepped foot into Naxx 10 and wearing level 70 gears
Make 2 camps. Move boss from one to the other so you maximize the charge benefit. Loot
EDIT: Can anyone tell me why am I missing Maexxna parse in every WWS log in WotlK?
Example WWS : Wow Web Stats
Log just ends after Faerlina. Browsing shows End of Log marker the moment she dies. Start of Log File happens at the first event during Razuvious fight. Is the encounter different in any way?
After a few attempts our 25 man group finally got the charges sorted out (stacked in two groups, same charge stack on tank, different charge stack behind tank), and bar a couple of random deaths due to lag or w/e, we seem to be maximising our DPS this way, yet we still have around 25% when he berserked.
Is this simply a DPS deificiency, or is there something we're missing?
We have about half the raid that hasn't even stepped foot into Naxx 10 and wearing level 70 gears
Doing it this way is just asking for trouble. Not only do your raiders have to take notice of their own charge, but they have to take notice of the tanks charge as well.
Have one charge group on one side of Thaddius and the other charge group on the other side and always have people run in the same direction around Thaddius when they change charge (i.e Clockwise or counterclockwise). Thaddius should stay static. Your tank will need to rotate towards the positive or negative camp depending on which charge the tank has. Thaddius hit box should be big enough that positive and negative melee can both get to him.
This way people only have to worry about their own charge and dont have to check on what charge the tank has in order to decide if they need to move or not.
It also means that your melee dps can stay in contact. If you have one group stacked behind the tank and one group stacked on the tank, the melee dps in the group behind the tank cant get at Thaddius due to range issues.
Oh, and make sure everyone waits for the charge to wear off before rushing in to loot the corpse.
We have about half the raid that hasn't even stepped foot into Naxx 10 and wearing level 70 gears
This is probably your problem. If you're maximising charge debuffs, you'll just be lacking DPS from gear. For some reason the Naxx 25 Thaddius enrage is pretty brutal in very early gear - we wiped 2-3 times to it due to 1 or 2 people dying so we weren't getting the full benefit of polarity charges until everyone learnt to move properly on our first run through.
Melee should always be standing at maximum hitbox range, and casters need to be standing directly on top of them (or potentially slightly behind to make sure hunters get the charges) to make sure everyone is getting the maximum charge benefit. Casters should continue to cast through the polarity cast and move (which may cancel the cast) if they need to, but stay still if not.
From the sounds of it, you're using a Thaddius -- G1 -- G2 setup, which means that you have G2 out of melee range of the boss? If you are, you need to rejig it to be G2 -- Thaddius -- G1 to make sure all your melee can DPS all the time, or you're missing out on a lot of damage.
With a correct rotation of the mind control you should have very little to heal on the adds for the duration of the fight.
Try to never have an understudy tanking when not using Bone Shield - and it is possible, you just might have a short blip at some point due to MC durations expiring.
Er, I'm good for advice on how to do it thanks :P We one shot it, as we learnt it at 60 and not alot has changed. I was offering advice to the guild who are wiping due to the understudies dying. There's almost no other damage being taken by the raid during the fight, so to have your healers not topping up the dying understudies seems fairly odd.
Re Gluth - I wasnt aware that bubble didnt remove the debuff stacks, thanks for clearing that up. However the paladin kiting tactic is more than doable even without clearing the debuffs. We managed to have one of our pallys cap out on debuff stacks (and is now known as 'reallybadadin' as a result) and still killed it.
EDIT: Can anyone tell me why am I missing Maexxna parse in every WWS log in WotlK?
Example WWS : Wow Web Stats
Log just ends after Faerlina. Browsing shows End of Log marker the moment she dies. Start of Log File happens at the first event during Razuvious fight. Is the encounter different in any way?
Maexxna seems to be bugged and regarded as a trash mob currently, so she's still there but not under the boss category.
11/26/08, 4:52 AM
