I just remember Patchwerk as being the fight I spammed the same rank of GHeal the entire fight on the same target. Sure there was some math involved in putting enough healing on each of the tanks prior to the fight, but that's the end of the actual complexity. Execution for me was simply pressing the GHeal2 hot key continuously, hitting mana consumables on cooldowns to sustain it.

Naxx 10/25 man is available with tonights beta patch, though the servers are very unstable at the moment.

Yeah I don't really remember any complex healing involved in Patchwrek, all I remember is spam FoL high rank all the time on your tank, while timing your HL while canceling incase your tank wasn't the one who got smashed. As a healer I kinda found Patch to be one of the least interesting bosses in Naxx. I found timing your heals on Loatheb a lot more enjoyable not to mention the likes of 4h, Thaddius and Sapphiron.

Speaking on 4h, I really wonder how they gonna implant them to a 10 men raiding system. Back in the days you had 8 tanks and 16 healers running about, which meant there were 2 healers constantly on each side while half your healers are busy running around. So in 25 men when you most likely have 7-8 healers (Seems about right) you can just have a healer a side (And maybe 2 for the highest hitting boss of the 4) and 3-4 running around replacing each other. But in 10 men when you have 3 healers max and 4 bosses, seems the only logical step is to either have some type of CC or some kind of gimmick with NPCs helping you out, I just can't see how this fight works on 10 men in its previous incarnation (Even if you remove the tanks' debuffs).

Surprisingly, I really looking forward to the 10 men version as oppose to the 25 men, because it really seems a lot of the fights there will have to be changed quite a bit to fit the system. My guess is that Loatheb will be tuned down to heal CD on 10 seconds instead of 1 minute and I highly doubt Sapphiron will be a resistance fight in the 10 men version. And it will be really interesting how the spawns will be on Gothik, especially considering you can't expect a CC class to be present there all the time (AKA Pala/Priest and I guess DK?). All in all I'm really looking forward to that, and if it goes well I won't mind seeing other old raid dungeons getting the same treatment and getting put into the Cavern of Time or something.

And one last thing, please oh please oh please make KT phase 1 actually fun, it was the worst 5 minutes in Naxx I can remember. No challenge at all and just a time drain between wipes.

Finding out the hard way: Heroic dungeons are the 25 man version and normal are the 10 man version. My group got to Anub and we were wondering why the 500k HP trash took so long to kill and why Anub had 7 million HP and hitting the Warrior harder than Brutallus.

The quality of the loot itemization is surprising me. Would have expected this kind of item quality in a later tier of loot. (The chain's probably meant to be BoP, not BoE) (Also, this is a Naxx-10 random trash drop.)

I agree. Kel'thuzad > Attumen was not quite so big a jump in ilvl as Kiljaeden > Naxx 10 appears to be.

Keep in mind that WotLK Naxx is designed to be an entry level raid, more like karazhan then Gruul even (I seem to recall a dev saying they won't force you into the 40->10->25 bottle neck like they did with BC). So I highly doubt blizzard will tune patchwerk to require complex healing or any of that such.

Not sure if this belongs here or in the general WoLK topic, but here seems to fit better.

Looking at the Naxx 10 Sets as posted on MMO-champion, most sets have 5 different stats on each piece of gear (more different stats lets item points be spent more efficiently). The exceptions are:
4 Different Stats Each: Ret Pallys, DPS Death Knights, and DPS Warriors
6 Different Stats Each: Hunters and Enhancement Shamans

The pattern is that plate dps gets only 4 and physical dps with mana gets 6 (except ret pallys). Not quite sure why plate dps all get that few stats though. I assume Hunters and Enhancement get 6 since they have intellect on all of their pieces but it doesn't scale their dps very much.

Im saddened that they didn't take the opportunity to go to 8 piece sets here.

I thought it was fairly commonly agreed that the 5-piece tier set model is superior for a magnitude of reasons. Having it expanded to 8 in the Sunwell style (Using new, higher i-level pieces of the same tier set to keep the old 4 piece bonus) was a great idea , but just having an '8 piece set' from a single instance isn't something I hope they go back to. I loved my Netherwind so much I didn't want to let it go for a long time.

Well, I personally just hate the loot table bloat that exists thanks to there being a bazillion offspec bracers/boots/belts on the loot tables.

Interesting note- Maexxna dropped no Tier pieces. It would seem that the 4H, Sapph, KT, Malygos and the Onyx Guardian are our likely sources of the T7 pieces.

Grand Widow is a bit ridiculous in the 10 man right now. She hit me for 8.6k through Icebound Fortitude while frenzied. General idea is that the adds are fully CC-able but *NOT* Mind Controllable and that to dispel her frenzy, you need to kill the add while it is near the boss. Once all the adds are dead, no more will spawn giving her a fairly generous "you wipe" timer that the undergeared group I ran it with might've been able to beat (we wasted an add because of Mirror Image's terrible implementation.

Of course the problem is that the enrage is instant cast, completely ridiculous and probably impossible to heal through for more than 2 hits without Shield Wall/Icebound Fortitude/Pain Supression, at the appropriate gear level.



Anub doesn't have his starting adds in the 10 man version.

Chest token from Gluth, and shoulder token from Loatheb so far.

Thaddius dropped us a leg token.

That's a very, very strange decision.

You can have loot progression by having higher ilevel stuff and also better itemised stuff- it the first tier of gear is close to perfectly budgetted where do you go from there if you want to have a very visible progression of gear? Jump 50 ilevels every raiding tier? Add an extra socket to everything every raiding tier?

Too high of a jump results in more gear farming requirements, as well as forcing the next instance to be "tuned" to the previous instance's gear for the most part. That being said, the first jump is just to level the playing field so essentially no Sunwell gear grants any noticeable upgrade to raiding in WotLK apart from leveling.

iirc, for T3->T4 the loot jumped from ilvl 90 (ending Tier 3) to ilvl 115 (starting Tier 4). If T6->T7 goes ilvl 160 to ilvl 200, well.. it's a greater absolute change, obviously, but not that much more of a relative change, really.

Isn't T6 146-154? Plus, those are 10 man drops, so you could add 15? or so levels for 25 man version, seems like a much larger jump than in TBC. Especially if we assume that it is properly itemized, which wasn't that obvious in T4.

Kil'jaeden loot is ilvl 164. Sunwell gear is 154 for early and 159 for later loot mostly.
The 146 were the old 5/8 T6, even Illidan/Archimonde gear was better with 151.


The quality of an item mostly depends on the amount of effective DPS stats and the amount of budget lost to dump stats (sta/int/spi for me). Item level comes second in my opinion.

The 3 Sunwell T6 pieces (at least for my class) are way better for DPS than the Naxxramas pieces.
Take the 4T6 set bonus and the new gear gets curbstomped by the old gear.

Expect the 4hm to be an kara style opera event where you get two of the horseman instead of the four in the 10man