Why go around when running through is faster?

Have both sides stand at maximum melee range, watch if your debuff switches -> If it does then run in a straight line to the other group of people.
Theres plenty of time to safely do so, shorter distance = higher chance of making it in time (& more time to dps aswell).

Jumping is still the hardest part of the encounter.

For the Horsemen
At the time of that run we had a holy priest, a resto druid, and I was healing as elemental. We had some trouble till we figured out i need to be up front being one of the healers for the physical tanks, and the tree ran back to keep the two caster tanks up and alive. apply earth living, and kept the jesus beams rolling. I ended up dying due to an ill timed metor, poping, only to have the tank die as I got there, the pally tank heroicly took both Kor'thazz and Rivendare till the dps finished off Kor'thazz in his last 5% health, ran back helped with healing on the raid and caster tanks and we won, it was awesome.

so two answer your question in short: 2 and a half healers for horsemen Certain fights like loatheb I am healing the healers but for the most part I'm running 2. Saph I can definatly see 4 healers without replenishment, or 2 to 3 with replenishment, I think that's where that will make a differeance on that fight so thank you for who ever mentioned that, very helpful.

I think 4H is doable with two healers if you have a DPS who can heal - we used a balance druid to tank Lady early since he could heal himself while keeping her locked down, but our strat was pretty random anyway since we just tried to keep the 3 occupied while we burned Thane down before 4 marks.

Sapphiron was a bit of a roadblock for us even though we didn't have too much trouble with anything else besides 4H. Hoping to get him down this week.

We ran 2 on every fight except 4HM, Sapph and KT with no healing issues at all for the entire clear. We had a resto druid, holy priest and holy paladin for the 3 healer fights and the priest went shadow (or subbed out) for the 2 healer ones. The hardest encounter to heal with just 2 was patchwerk, but with 2 feral tanks the difficulty was lessened (50K HP when cooldowns were all blown).

We have since progressed to a prot paladin as our second tank and the rest of the makeup has not changed. I do not envision any difficulties with this week's clear but I have been wrong before.

We've done 4H with 2 healers and no hybrids in raid, it was a bit of a brick wall until we came up with a decent strategy the night after.

Strategy was: 1 healer and random on caster side, all other dps bloodlust and burn down Korth'azz while the other healer stands between him and Rivendare keeping both tanks up and getting both marks, as soon as the first add dies (slightly before or after the 4th mark) the healer swaps to caster side and the tank that was on Korth'azz taunts Rivendare and uses a few cooldowns to give the healer that was on caster side enough time to come over. After that it's pretty easy.

I'm looking for advice on how to do Malygos p1 (the vortex) with no druid/priest though as that is where we are stuck currently.

Oh that makes a lot more sense. I will try that next time.

It will really help us for all the other bosses if we can condense down to 2 healers.

I was one of the controllers. It never healed back to full when I released it. Once we got the taunt rotation down, we were able to power through it, but it was a near thing. I think the need to balance healing understudies with raid healing, along with undergeared healers, was overstressing them. We had a few wipes where we'd lose one or more DPS and the understudies wouldn't last long enough to compensate.

When we were running our 10 man Naxx, we had the same problem as you had with the healing. This problem can be easily fixed by your overall DPS of the fight. The controllers can not be the biggest source of DPS for this given fight. You need to have a strong dps force to burn R down. This fight should never take more than 5 minutes to complete. As long as the tanks have Sheild walls up and are taunting, this is an easy win. Blood Lust (if you have the Shaman) at the very beginning and you are in for smooth sailing.

I really don't see how you need more then 2 healers for any fight in 10 man naxx. Although a dps who can heal would be beneficial. since we did 10 naxx in 2 nights ill break it down by fights that might be hard.

Patch one healer on MT one on hateful is all that is needed from my experience. Believe we had a pally for mt and myself, disc priest for hateful. Took a couple attempts, healing wasnt an issue, bad dps was. (namely 2 people who were between both tanks in damage. I hate bringing along people doing 1200 dps.)

We found grob to be hard, however I have heard people saying he is harder in 10 man then in 25 since you have a higher % of your raid running off with the poison at any one time. Eitherway once we ditched the 1.2k dps people for 2k dps people we one shotted him. If your dps has been at 80 for more then a week they should be able to break or be very close to 2k dps. Otherwise send them here to learn.

Gluth was easy, one shotted with a DK solo kiting.

Thaddius easy, two shotted. First attempt we explained the adds then thaddius, by the time the adds were dead the new people in the raid had forgotten what we said about the charges.

Spider wing all easy mode, wiped on faerlina once since we didnt know about the changes, being immune to MC sorta makes the fight different. Tank could only tank through enrage until 30% between pain supression, trinkets, and a little luck.

Plague wing all easy mode, DDR took a couple attempts but nothing that was due to only having 2 healers.
Loatheb was close with only a pally healer and priest healer. But I designated 3 people for the pally to heal in G2, and I timed a PoH to land shortly after debuff wore off for G1, followed by a pennance and flash for the two the pally couldnt hit. Priorited shielding the guy hit by flash since he always recieved the least heal. He was also a dk so he took the least amount of damage.

Instructor took us two attempts since the fight is a little different in 10 man then what we are used to. Pally/Disc priest still had no issues healing this. Each of us was assigned one add to heal. I also healed through the raid damage. Gothik we accidently aggroed and still one shot. Groups were set up, however buffs werent out and we were explaining the fight.

4H, kel, and sapph was all in night 2. We lost the pally healer, group set up was as such. 2x disc priest, shadow priest, moonkin, DK, 2 prot warriors, rogue, ret pally, hunter. This is where i say offspecs that can heal can help alot, although I dont mean they need to switch over and heal. We had the moonkin and shadow priest tanking the two ranged adds and switching every 3 marks, or as soon as their previous mark expired, whichever happened second. The two melee ranks switched every 4 marks I believe, however they waited for a meteor to land so that it wouldnt land mid transition. We had an issue with dps getting a mark refreshed due to standing in the wrong spots, so we needed them to not be part of the tank switch.

The groups were split up as such, if your facing the room, boomkin started in the back right, Spriest in the back left, one Disc priest in the middle on the left and right. Each tank had themselves and 2 dps with them in order for the meteor damage to be spread out when that tank was tanking the meteor mob. The shadow priest did have VE and imp VE. His healing was fairly significant, allowing the first and second marks to not need to be healed for the most part. Each disc priest also found time to dps the meteor boss a little when he was on our side, the healing was very easy.

After the fourth transition both melee mobs died and the fight becomes a joke. The only time someone came close to dieing was when the ranged tanks switch, at this point both priests would shield their ranged tanks to assist them in surviving until they became in range of the other priest.

Sapph, here, on our 4th or 5th attempt we lost the ret pally (1287 dps...) and picked up an enhance shammy. On one of the first couple attempts the other disc priest respecced holy to CoH the raid as I picked up on the MT and assited with the raid. We found this to be pointless. Most of my raid heals were sniped with CoH and the holy priest went oom fast. So she stayed holy to save time but what worked for us was this.

G1 MT, rogue, DK, Prot warrior trying to dps, me.
G2 Hunter, enhance shammy, Boomkin, Spriest, Holy priest.

We both stayed on the south side of the map, on sapphs left side. We both took care of our group with PoH's. We both watched the MT as well. The holy priest kept PoM up as much as she could and flashed a couple times, while I kept weakened soul on him and used penance. The enhance shammy would keep maelstrom weapon procs for a HW on the MT should he ever see him drop below 60%. I think he ended up doing so about 6 times throughout the fight.

We did it with no frost resistance though the shammys totem helped alot. The fight was relatively easy, i feel we could do it again this week and next, while patch might be a little more iffy.

Kel' is a joke in 10 man. Anyone know if the skeleton adds are bugged? They have 12k when walking around then 1.2k when they head for the group. Might be 16k / 1.6k. Either way I one shot them with SW, or the hunter just fires an auto... the entire phase 1 could be healed by one feral druid in feral gear.

Phase 2 Has only one real concern, and that is the ice tomb effect. We found it to be easy once I stayed within 30 yards of the melee so I would PoH and heal all of them, and the other priest would flash up the MT. Although holy would be better for PoH I feel, I had more haste so it allowed me more room to delay before I had to start the cast. CoH also failed here due to pets, either our BM hunter would lose a bit of damage, or we would have to rely on the priests actually trying. Though I am sure that if your aoe healers were slow you could just have a priest spamming CoH once it landed and make sure no more then 5 targets are in melee range, even if it cuts dps there is no enrage timer.

Phase 3 the prot warrior OT died to the 2 adds, though his gear was really subpar with alot of 70 gear still, the MT was able to tank both adds and kel for the remainder of the fight, just be sure to save PS / SW for when a healer gets tombed.

Overall the entire instance is more/less easily 2 healered. Or, more specifically, 2 healing priests regardless of spec. Not sure how hard/easy it would be with a shaman/druid/paladin to replace one of the priests. What wiped us usually was lack of dps, the Spriest, DK, and hunter all had about 2k-2.2k dps, while the prot warrior had about 800? when he wasnt tanking. Other dps in the group also failed at the meters although i dont attribute that to the class. What kind of dps can a prot warrior pull when not tanking? My biggest gripe is the number of fights where you need two tanks at least, yet besides feral and maybe dk, paladins and warriors dont put out good damage when not tanking as tank spec.

I think having two priests probably helped you a lot with the 2 healer thing. We were doing Sapphiron with a Holy Paladin and a Resto Druid (once our Resto shaman lost internet and we brought in another dps) and it was a bit more challenging for them to keep up I think.

We used 2 healers to do the whole thing with ease. 4 Horsemen we don't even use a healer on Thane. Just put a tank on him that doesnt need heals and have your DPS stack and zerg him down. He should die before he can kill the tank and before any of the DPS gets more than 4 marks. Rivendare tank might need a couple heals here and there but his healer can be on the fringe so he can step in between marks and toss a group heal on the thane people. I'm a resto shaman and it's no problem to keep myself and another up to tank the 2 casters while the others are dealt with. If you have a hybrid that can heal themself its even better... they don't even really need to DPS just stand there and stay topped off after their initial hit. Sapphiron my mana bar barely moved with 2 healers and just a pally aura for frost resist. We did have replenishment though which makes a big difference on some fights though is not needed. I can't think of an encounter in the 10 man where you would actually benefit from more than 2 two healers simply because the times we brought 3 I found myself casting lava burst/chain lightning or running around and doing other non-heal related things.

I think part of the problem is that people tend to change their strategies up before giving them a chance to work. Healers need a pull or two usually to figure out what they can get away with. Honestly, Instructor is more about the people tanking as well. One attempt to the next varies greatly based on shield wall rotations being on point. We 2 healer'd it and it was much easier than with 3 because it took 12-15% less time to kill him and the rotations were good enough so neither add dropped below half health until the very end when someone messed up. Overall this should be the hardest fight to double heal in the 10 man though. Make sure your controllers stagger their use on the cubes. Have the first add pick up both instructor AND the second add... wait about 7 or 8 seconds then have the other one control their add so you have them staggered. This also eliminates the need for an offtank to pick up an add while you stagger it and will allow you to use your low DPS tanks for something more useful.

Running through is most certainly NOT faster, but you may be able to squeeze out a bit more DPS just because casters can stand still 50% of the time. The "change left same right" strategy is definitely superior for survival. I always preferred the latter because the DPS requirements are really easy to make provided everyone is alive.

I didn't even know there was an enrage timer in the 10 man version. We lost 2 people our try on the 10 man version right at the start and the fight went on for about 6 or more minutes and we saw no enrage.

For our 2 healer 4h in 10 man, we had both healers in the front. One on each of the tanks(we didnt have the dps to burn one of them down in the first lust). Then in the back we put a shadow priest and an elem shaman, and they both just topped themselves off while jumping back and forth. I had originally been a bit worried about 10 man 4h with 2 healears, but any hybrid with a heal spell can throw on some healing gear and keep himself alive in the back with little consequence.

There definitely is one in the 10-man version. Though it's longer than the standard 6 minutes, I think 8 minutes or so instead.

Quick question. Is it possible to battle rez people on Thaddius? We tried last night, and by not having a charge, the people rezed were immediately blown up. Does anyone know a way, or does dying early just allow you to go get cookies and milk?

You don't... and you certainly do phase 2 without at least one or the other as well unless you're using all shamans or something.

You could have everyone stack stamina I suppose to make things easier. Your tank shouldnt need heals until you hit the ground. Pallies can shock twice shaman can riptide twice during each vortex. That's only 6 heals total with 3 healers during that time so it is still going to be tough. Any class that can heal should do so. When I spec enhance I can completely work around it and survive with zero heals. Enhance can get a 4 or 5 stack of maelstrom to self heal. I have herbalism so lifeblood gives me just barely enough life to survive on my own. I also have spirit wolves which almost fully heal through it while they DPS him on the ground during vortex. I'm sure other classes have similar ways to make healing easier. Any loss in DPS you might incur through these survival techniques can easily be made up for by religiously stacking 2 sparks or more during ground phases. The key to the DPS is simply spark stacking. Phase 2 healing is definitely worse though and after you learn the fight you're still going to experience some "random" deaths there.

Wrong thread =/

What you do is have a druid walk all the way out of a group and rez the dead person, warning them not to take it until the druid is back in the group. The person is rezzed with no charge. Now, that person must wait until a polarity shift gives them a charge, then join the appropriate group. Going in with no charge or with the wrong charge will kill them in the standard way. It's a pain, and you lose plenty of DPS time and charge uptime doing it, but it's possible.

edit: oops, beaten

The enrage timer difference between 10 vs 25 man Thaddius is insane. Our first pull on this in Naxx 10 saw all of our priests die (2 healers, 1 shadow) and I healed the rest of the fight as elemental and we won before the "enrage." If you don't have a lot of Naxx epics or heroic gear in your raid, the 25 man timer will be very very close, especially if you lose people or have folks that just can't seem to jump from one platform to the other.

Has anyone had any luck with kiting Anub'Rekan on 25 man? I have no problem avoiding any stacks in the 10 man, but it seems the 25 man version is just too fast, even in unholy presence I end up with 10 stacks at the end. He's still a complete joke, in fact he's harder in the 10 man version (seems true for every fight...). I'm just curious if they made him not kitable or if I just suck. Seems like a really stupid change if they did.

You need a hunter for the Pack Aura in 25man to outrun the swarm.

Not really, the swarm does absolutely nothing dangerous in the 25 man version of the fight.

[e] Sure you could avoid the stacks, but it's more trouble than it's worth.

I said to "outrun", not survive =p.