WotLK: Naxxramas - Page 29

Hate Monkey · 01/08/09, 2:52 AM

Actually Cos- that is not the case. Experienced the same thing tonight, and for some reason the wording on the achievement is wrong, and should say "Faerlina can not be afflicted by Widow's Embrace during the course of the fight" I put in a ticket about and got this response;

"Answer: Unfortunately the achievement Momma Said knock you out is only achieveable if the spell "dispell frenzy" is not cast before Grand Widow Farelina dies. Since killing the Worshippers, casts the spell "Dispell Frenzy", When you killed the warshippers first, you became unable to get the achievement."

So as long as you take Faerlina away from the Worshippers and kill them off without getting Faerlina, you'll be fine.

Cos- · 01/08/09, 3:09 AM

Originally Posted by Hate Monkey

Actually Cos- that is not the case. Experienced the same thing tonight, and for some reason the wording on the achievement is wrong, and should say "Faerlina can not be afflicted by Widow's Embrace during the course of the fight" I put in a ticket about and got this response;

"Answer: Unfortunately the achievement Momma Said knock you out is only achieveable if the spell "dispell frenzy" is not cast before Grand Widow Farelina dies. Since killing the Worshippers, casts the spell "Dispell Frenzy", When you killed the warshippers first, you became unable to get the achievement."

So as long as you take Faerlina away from the Worshippers and kill them off without getting Faerlina, you'll be fine.

Oh well whatever, we made it harder and sloppier not dragging the adds out of the room.

In the end you can't give her the debuff if you want your 10 achievement points.

joethe33 · 01/08/09, 7:19 AM

Wow Web Stats

Looking at Patchwerk only**
Between the Two rogues Zaniel / Blueminty, why exactly is there a 600 DPS difference between the two? It seems like their hits etc are for the most part the same, count wise etc.

Rerox · 01/08/09, 8:04 AM

Originally Posted by joethe33

Between the Two rogues Zaniel / Blueminty, why exactly is there a 600 DPS difference between the two? It seems like their hits etc are for the most part the same, count wise etc.

Well the only "countable" difference between the two is that Blueminty has over 100 swing hits more than Zaniel.
("166 hit + 207 crit + 92 glances" to "157 hit + 121 crit + 80 glances"). Why that happened I can not tell from a casual glance at the WWS. Maybe Zaniel was out of range for some time and didn't notice?

One other thing I noticed is that Blueminty has gained Hunger for Blood three times (Wow Web Stats), while Zaniel hasn't gained it once (Wow Web Stats).
While it's entirely possible that the refresh of the buff doesn't show in WWS it makes me still wonder if he used it at all.

Taja · 01/08/09, 9:19 AM

I think its more likely he let hunger for blood drop once, and had to restack it 3 times while the other rogue had it up pre-fight and never let it drop.

• Melthu · 01/08/09, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by joethe33

Wow Web Stats

Looking at Patchwerk only**
Between the Two rogues Zaniel / Blueminty, why exactly is there a 600 DPS difference between the two? It seems like their hits etc are for the most part the same, count wise etc.

Did Zaniel turn off his auto-attack? Checking the combat log, from 21:12:42 until 21:13:36 he did not attempt a single white swing. He was still using special attacks so I don't think it was an issue with the logger or with him being out of range, he just seems to have turned off his auto-attacks for almost a minute of the fight.

Exemplar · 01/08/09, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by webmeister

Last night my 25-man raid tried to do Momma Said Knock You Out. We killed off the two Followers, then pre-emptively sacrificed each Worshipper, keeping her silenced for the duration of the fight. At no point did she do her frenzy yell, or gain the frenzy buff. She was definitely silenced each time, as we sacrificed every 28 seconds or so.

However, we didn't get the achievement.

We did the same in 10man last week. Kill them early in sequence to (I thought) silence her and prevent frenzy. Apparently the death casts "Dispel Frenzy" rather than a silence effect (per posts above).

Another classic example of Blizzard's tooltip being vastly wrong. "Not dispelling frenzy" and "Not dispelling or delaying frenzy" are not the same thing. The current wording strongly implies the preferred solution is pre-killing to delay (not dispel) frenzy.

Reminds me of multiple quests where "directly east" in the text means "south-southwest" or similar.

Tel · 01/08/09, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by Melthu

Did Zaniel turn off his auto-attack? Checking the combat log, from 21:12:42 until 21:13:36 he did not attempt a single white swing. He was still using special attacks so I don't think it was an issue with the logger or with him being out of range, he just seems to have turned off his auto-attacks for almost a minute of the fight.

I seem to recall (from way way back so memory could be wrong) that special attacks have a longer range than auto attacks for rogues so it could be that he took a dip in the goo and then didn't get quite close enough when moving back. Its a possibility anyhow.

sovelis41 · 01/08/09, 1:31 PM

Originally Posted by Tel

I seem to recall (from way way back so memory could be wrong) that special attacks have a longer range than auto attacks for rogues so it could be that he took a dip in the goo and then didn't get quite close enough when moving back. Its a possibility anyhow.

That is an entirely separate problem from poor dps.

• Melthu · 01/08/09, 2:10 PM

Originally Posted by Tel

I seem to recall (from way way back so memory could be wrong) that special attacks have a longer range than auto attacks for rogues so it could be that he took a dip in the goo and then didn't get quite close enough when moving back. Its a possibility anyhow.

He didn't take any damage in the fight and his only debuff was Exhaustion, so he didn't dip into the slime. It's possible that he moved, but there wasn't any reason for him to.

Tel · 01/08/09, 2:48 PM

I was just putting down a situation that might require him to have moved, none the less, as a former rogue (day1 to wotlk) I'm fairly confident in my statement that the two attacks have a slightly differing range (having experianced this myself). However I can't remember which have the longer range, and the difference is millimeters apart. Other than that though I can't think of anything that would cause him to still be performing specials but no auto attacks.

evisania · 01/08/09, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by Tel

I was just putting down a situation that might require him to have moved, none the less, as a former rogue (day1 to wotlk) I'm fairly confident in my statement that the two attacks have a slightly differing range (having experianced this myself). However I can't remember which have the longer range, and the difference is millimeters apart. Other than that though I can't think of anything that would cause him to still be performing specials but no auto attacks.

My experience on my warrior is that specials do have longer range than auto attacks. And it can sometimes take a few seconds to realize you are out of normal attack range and move. But letting that stretch to a full minute seems odd.

Threnalish · 01/08/09, 6:28 PM

Hey all,

I'd like to dredge up the Razuvious MC issue again, because my guild continues to have problems and we are at a loss to diagnose the issue.

On every Raz we have used the same two people to MC, myself on a priest alt and a holy priest. Both of us have acquired enough hit gear to be at 6% hit for this encounter. Generally we stand toward the bottom of the ramp and tank Raz within a few yards of ourselves at the bottom of the ramp.

The first 3-4 times we did this encounter, MC never broke. Ever. We weren't even at 6% hit back then! Suddenly the last two times we have done this encounter, we have come across inexplicable MC breaks NONSTOP. We cannot hold onto the MCs for any length of time. Neither of us are doing anything different in our MC strategy, they simply do not hold. Of course everyone is saying we are doing something wrong, but since we're not doing anything DIFFERENT, I don't know what that is.

The most interesting thing is - on our last kill, when Raz was at 50% health and about half of the raid was dead due to MC constantly breaking for both of us, they suddenly ceased to break. We continued to the end of the fight without a single break from that point on.
Here is our WWS of this fight: WWS Loading...

So the question becomes, who died and affected the MC breakage? I can see no other explanation other than SOMEONE was using an aura that affects MC, and it went away due to their death.

One of the other locks in my guild did some MC testing with a priest and they believe it may have to do with Shadow Resist. On our WWS, most pallies bit it by 50% and one of them certainly had SR aura up, meaning every time we MCed our mob was acquiring SR. And of course MC is a shadow spell. Could this make our mob more likely to break MC on a heartbeat check?

If that's not the answer, we don't know what is.

Thoughts? Opinions? Advice?

Denir · 01/08/09, 6:39 PM

Is it possible for a felhunter to devour the debuff? I've also heard that it could potentially be related to either a DK aura or a Shaman totem though neither was substantiated.

Threnalish · 01/08/09, 6:55 PM

Originally Posted by Denir

Is it possible for a felhunter to devour the debuff? I've also heard that it could potentially be related to either a DK aura or a Shaman totem though neither was substantiated.

Right - we had read the issues about the Tremor Totem, so we were sure to specify that one not go down. Although this would already be a pretty random totem to have down so I doubt that was the problem before.

Hm, we did have a DK bite it at 36% into the fight. But at that point I think we were still having trouble, because people still died after he did. When you sort that WWS by presence you can almost see exactly where MC suddenly came under control.

Not sure about Felhunter, that's an interesting thought. There was an aff lock on that fight with Felhunter out, but, I'm 99% sure that he has auto-devour turned off. I'll have to ask him though.

• Kalroth · 01/08/09, 7:11 PM

Originally Posted by Threnalish

Thoughts? Opinions? Advice?

* WWS - Ability : Shadow Resistance Aura.
* Shadow Resistance Aura gains during Raz fight.
* Time of deaths during the fight.

23:04'13.855 Fibreoptics died.
23:04'25.872 Absalom died.
23:05'47.514 Verum died.
23:05'49.113 Death Knight Understudy #2 gains Shadow Resistance Aura. <- Last SR aura gain.
23:05'51.889 Nicolodion died. <- Last paladin death.

Based on the fact that you stopped getting MC resists mid-fight, I'd give Nicolodion a nice yelling and charge him for the repair bills.

Gofa · 01/09/09, 4:26 AM

Yesterday we tried to get "Heroic: The Safety Dance" on Thaddius but it didn't work. According to Recount there was no friendly fire at all except for a paladin using seal of martyr but somehow we didn't get the achievement. Did anybody encounter bugs with this achievement recently aswell?
I guessed it could have been caused by a mage using mirror images, but I didn't find anything in the wws about this: Wow Web Stats

edit: My bad, Heroic: Shocking! is the achievement we tried.

Threnalish · 01/09/09, 4:41 AM

Originally Posted by Kalroth

23:04'13.855 Fibreoptics died.
23:04'25.872 Absalom died.
23:05'47.514 Verum died.
23:05'49.113 Death Knight Understudy #2 gains Shadow Resistance Aura. <- Last SR aura gain.
23:05'51.889 Nicolodion died. <- Last paladin death.

Based on the fact that you stopped getting MC resists mid-fight, I'd give Nicolodion a nice yelling and charge him for the repair bills.

Kalroth thanks very much for that, I didn't even think to look into that much detail. That just confirms what the lock/priest thought it was.

Hopefully everyone can learn from this - Pally SR Aura on Raz = bad!

moowalk · 01/09/09, 4:54 AM

Just a quick "me too" and thanks.

We wiped for about an hour on Razuvious last night due to early MC breaks. I read this thread then checked auras before the pull, and sure enough we had shadow resist aura.

So this isn't a completely worthless post - we had a similar effect on Kel'Thuzad with priests buffing shadow resist before the fight. It made the mind controlled people much harder to fear.

• Kalroth · 01/09/09, 4:56 AM

Originally Posted by Gofa

Yesterday we tried to get "Heroic: The Safety Dance" on Thaddius but it didn't work.

Considering Heroic: The Safety Dance is a Heigan achievement, I'm not surprised you couldn't get it to work on Thaddius. I'll assume you mean Heroic: Shocking!.

But looking at your WWS, noone got hit by positive/negative charge and I suspect it's simply because the achievement didn't reset after the first wipe. Also if you're going to link German combatlogs then please supply English translations for the relevant buffs/debuffs. :)

Lucinde · 01/09/09, 4:58 AM

Originally Posted by Gofa

Yesterday we tried to get "Heroic: The Safety Dance" on Thaddius but it didn't work. According to Recount there was no friendly fire at all except for a paladin using seal of martyr but somehow we didn't get the achievement. Did anybody encounter bugs with this achievement recently aswell?
I guessed it could have been caused by a mage using mirror images, but I didn't find anything in the wws about this: Wow Web Stats

Safety Dance says:

Defeat Heigan the Unclean in Naxxramas on Heroic Difficulty without anyone in the raid dying.

It should be pretty straightforward to figure out whether you managed this or not :-). We've had the achievement for weeks and I don't think we ever killed it with nobody taking any on the flame waves.

Gofa · 01/09/09, 7:24 AM

Oh sorry, my bad. It's of course Heroic: Shocking! that we tried to get.
The German name of the spells are 'Ability : Positive Aufladung' and 'Ability : Negative Aufladung' but nobody got hit by it in the kill, only in the first try and that's why we decided to wipe and try it again.
Can anybody confirm that you cannot get this achievement after a wipe?

Marieth · 01/09/09, 7:30 AM

I can confirm that this it not the case.
Yesterday we wiped on purpose, because one person died to a wrong charge.
Next try we finished without anyone crossing the charges and we all got the achievment.
See: http://wowwebstats.com/ybsahubjzfkq3?s=431139-469894&m
and my armory link for the achievment.

Celebrindal · 01/09/09, 12:17 PM

Thaddius does have a bad habit of not resetting properly if anyone is alive when he despawn/respawn, ever since vanilla we've had to delay ankh/soulstones till after the encounter properly reset or get the whole zone stuck in combat. (Not that you get any benefits from ressing now that you don't leave skeletons at the boss) As far as I can tell from your WWS one of your mages used invis to avoid death when you called a whipe, and given the 20sec duration he'd pop out before the encounter reset, probably costing you your achievement.

ShaidarLock · 01/10/09, 5:10 PM

I had a question on the Spore Loser achievement. I know it's bugged but has anyone tried killing the spores as they spawn far away from the raid so that no one gains the buff? I'm curious if the achievement tracks buff gains or spore deaths. Alternatively does anyone have a WWS log of a spore despawning, I'm curious if it's logged as "Spore dies" in the log.