I do much the same thing on the 'straight-line' method. If my polarity doesn't change, I back up. That's that much more chance that anyone who's slow to move won't hit me (nor me them).

Whatever you do on Thaddius, just make sure that when people have to move from their group due to a polarity switch, this movement starts with a straight line away from the clump they were in. No curves, you want to gain distance as quickly as possible. The direction of said straight line can change depending on which strategy you adopt, they pretty much all work.

Also remember that it's perfectly safe to have 2 intersecting "streams" of people moving from + to - and from - to +, as long as they're quick. The first tick after a polarity switch won't happen for a while and you have plenty of time to reach the opposite clump even without any run speed enchant/advantage. Unless for some weird reasons you choose to have the clumps 20yd apart (i've seen this), which is a different error

I advocate the box strategy myself, since it has a slightly larger margin of error for slow movers than the straight-line approach. However, there's one thing that seems to help more than anything: Deadly Boss Mods. It has a feature that makes a nice attention-grabbing noise when your polarity changes, but not when it stays the same. So, if you hear the sound, switch. You don't even need to see your debuff to know. Granted, nothing is idiot-proof for a potent enough dunce, but it doesn't get much closer than that.

Our 25 man raid gave the And They Would All Go Down Together achievement a few tries last night. I was in the front initially tanking Baron and our plan was for the other tank and I to meet in the middle after 3 debuff stacks and taunt each other's boss. The first go I died when Thane cast Meteor on me as I was trying to move him back to my corner. So we agreed that on the second attempt we wouldn't move to swap until right after he cast Meteor, hoping this would give me more time to get him back to my group. However, I still got hit by it and died the second attempt as well.

What have other people done to prevent this from happening? Move the whole group along with the tank for the boss swap and then move back to the corner together?

Thats precisley what we do when doing this achievement or on 10 man where we can't really do the nuke Thane out of the picture tactic if not going for the achievement.

Another point to mention is to make sure that groups are bunched and stop for a second to ensure the meteor damage is spread out. If you keep moving during a meteor cast chances are the group will be too spread out to properly spread the damage. Taking a 4th stack of a debuff may often happen with this. It does for us but thats really not an issue.

Just make sure 2 people are ontop of you at all time. (meteor deals 48-53k damage pre-mitigation) Split by 3 and reduced by defensive stance this is cake. So either have your 2 healers hug you or 1 dps and 1 healer hug you depending on how many healers you use.

That's a decent way of avoiding poorly split meteors while moving. The main thing we do is to call out the movement timing on vent and for people to all move of their own accord as soon as they hear the call, not follow someone else. Similar to Heigan, people should remember that they're actually a little behind where they think they are in relation to other players--we've had people who thought they were in the middle of the group take a full Meteor to the face.

What we did back at 60 and still works now, is call for a switch only when a meteor hits. Should have plenty of time to get to the middle and back to thane's corner on time.

Exactly, just wait till the meteor lands and then do your switch. Also in general on 4h, dont hug the corners on the melee mobs, you'll have to move way too much.

Achieved The Immortal title yesterday, so I figured I'd share some tactic adjustments and just random thoughts during the battle in general and from healers perspective in particular.


We went to this event with 6 healers, 4 tanks and 15 dps, but due to RL issues 1 tank and 1 dps had to drop out, so 6 healers, 3 tanks and 14 dps by KT.

Razuvous - we started off with him , because this fight has the most RNG from the 1st bosses and if you fail you can do a soft reset (everyone out of Nax/raid and a new RL make it. One thing to note: do not have shadow resist aura and/or frost aura. If you have a dk, specced into frost aura, he will have to either respec or hit the boss once and run away a bit to range out the aura effect on MC targets.
Pretty straightfoward for a healer. If you're on raid, just watch for who Razu targets and precast heals on him to avoid any chances of chaining damage.

Gothik - easy, just stand in the corner and run after tanks if things go rough.

4HM - Make sure everyone stacks on eachother on Thane. Burned down Thrane with all dps on him + hero (didn't even reach 4 stacks). Then same for Rivendale. In the back people switched on 2 marks to avoid any chances of spike damage. We also took it the slow way and made most of the melee swap/stay out on Zeliak to avoid any chances of huge spikes from chain holy wrath.

Noth - we had a tank stand in each of the adds spawn corners, picking them up immediately and all casters in far left corner of the room to avoid any chances of clothie getting hit.

Heigan - pretty easy as long as people know the dance. We had 3 people assigned specifically to cleanse diseases.

Loath - nothing to wipe from.

Patch - we had our melee stand away from the boss for around 10 seconds to avoid any chances of somebody popping in the #2-3 threat range. After that it's tank'n spank.

Grobb - We had 2 healers assigned to running after injected people; Grobb was also tanked a bit further away from the wall so we always had a spot to run in with the injection.

Gluth - 2 tanks kiting, healers chaining cds on tanks for decimate (should only hit once).

Thaddius - no problems here as long as people know how to switch sides. We also made it clear that nobody enters the fight if he fails the jump (didn't happen, but being extra safe doesn't hurt)

Anub - no problems.

Faerlina - we killed all adds to avoid spike damage and just healed off the enrage with 4 healers assigned just for MT.

Maexxna - chained cds for web spray, no problems after that.


Sapphiron - we did it on 1 side, but had healers spread out on it. 2 healers closer to entrance to KT room, 2 healers to center and 2 healers to entrance to Saph. To ensure that each side always has at least 1 healer for breath time to top everybody off.


KT - staying calm is a must. Healers were spread out in a similar fashion as on Saph to ensure that all raid is in range of healing for FB, including healers themselves. We had few people specifically assigned to CC the MCed. If you use DBM addon, then use /range to avoid any chances of getting FB chain. Again, staying calm is a must. You must understand that RNG may and most likely will play against you, so be prepared. For example, we had our OTs with adds on them FBed, healers FBed, our main tank MCed. As long as people are calm, it'll stay under control.


On a general note we also had healers ready to chain CDs on dps that have hard time controlling their threat/running away from stuff that hurts. Saying "no he stood in x, it's his fault" won't bring you your title.
As a DPS please remember that if you're attempting this, then you are most likely already well geared and DPS races should not concern you. Staying alive is a priority. Run away from Blizzards, void zones and so on even if they hit you for little damage.

Hope this helps, good luck with the achiev, really epic one.

As far as I know, Kel Thuzad doesn't Mind Control his main target anymore.

Other than that, no matter how many strategy posts we spend writing how to get Immortal, getting it is really just a matter of playing well and getting lucky in the process. We don't particularly "go" for Immortal, as I don't believe you can "go" for it. Anyone in a guild in a position to maybe get Immortal, should always trying their best to stay alive. Disregarding some gimmicks, killing raid bosses has *always* been about staying alive and the whole "don't die" mentality should already be there in the first place and not just when you are "going for Immortal".

That said, we had an otherwise flawless run ruined by someone disconnecting on Thaddius last week. The week before Grobullus decided, for some reason, to spit slime the same instant he injected someone and as such sprayed it all over the raid, resulting in 15 or so adds. Not much you can do about it and I'm glad they removed these bullshit achievements from the meta in Ulduar.

I'm also one that recommends using the 4 Camp Strat when trying to get Shocking! on Thaddius. Its a lot less forgiving to slight bits of lag and a lot harder to cross a stray charge. While it is a bit more complicated then the standard 2 camp that most people use for him, a 2 camp with people crossing directly across the middle has a much higher chance for a stray charge cross from the "slower" people.

With 4 camp, even if their slow, the chance for a charge cross is a lot smaller as both charges seperate from each other faster and the people that are slow have both charge groups moving away from them. It also helps incase of a disconnect as well since that person will be left at an empty camp and not cross the charge to anyone until the next polarity where then they have a 50% of having the right polarity for that group.

So if your going for an easier kill and dont care for a stray non-fatal charge cross, use the 2 camp strat. If going for Shocking!, I recommend the 4 camp. However any strat wont work with the type of people that like to stand in fires. Just put these guys on the edge of the ramps or well away from the raid and leave them there.

I disagree with this. Maybe you won't want to post it in public, but for my guild, WWS was invaluable when figuring out what went wrong with our Immortal runs and where we could improve. Our raid leadership team dissected each death and analyzed how not to make that same mistake again. Telling people to turn off their damage meters is a good idea though.

This is going to eat at me for a while so I'm asking for a definitive answer here.

Does Guardian Spirit keep a player from dieing in a void zone?

If the answer is positive hopefully this will save someone's Undying run someday.

The reason I ask is because we lost Undying on KT when our OT went offline. We were aware this person had connection issues but we also made the decision to not sit them for KT (she sat for Heigan), however as soon as the Void Zone hit her and she did not move I knew she was either in a major lag spike or already offline because this is a superb player who is never distracted and always has her eyes on the ball.

Sadly, though I can think on my feet sometimes, I was resigned to losing her at that point. It was only later, after the fact when I was reminding everyone not to act like they were at a funeral that it came to me, we had 3 healers and one was a Holy Priest. Had I said "Priest, Guardian Spirit on OT" I feel like I could've saved that title for those (including the OT) who didn't have it yet.

So, you can't heal through a void zone but what can save you from a void zone if you're link dead? Not that I would plan on it, but it's nice to know.

Yes Guardian Spirit will eat a killing blow and restore you to 50% of your max HP if it is consumed, regardless of the size of the hit.

Something interesting happened on our Razuvious kill in Naxx 25 this week.

Does anyone know if this causes Immortal to fail? We had a couple of deaths later in the run so we could not ascertain it ourselves.

No, that's quite normal. The debuff only gets applied if they're hostile mobs at the moment the boss dies, but it's of the order of 10,000%, I believe - to prevent the NPCs from beig used to tank anything else. We usually have a competition between Ret Paladins and Shadow Priests about who can kill themselves first there - similar to using self-harm abilities when Maggy was channelled, or Curator was Evocating.

Whether it counts, I don't know. I would assume not, since Rasu died... but when we try for the Undying, we ask the self-harmers not to.

If you have been ooc between killing Razuvious and dying, it doesn't count. If you haven't (because the add was not mind controlled at the time Razuvious died, so you did not leave combat) it probably killed Immortal, because a boss fight lasts until you leave combat after the boss died (see Grobbulus and the green clouds after he died - you don't leave combat until all of them have vanished, so if someone gets killed from stupidity by standing in them even after Grobbulus has died Immortal has failed).

If an add is mindcontrolled at the time of Razuvious's death, the increased damage taken debuff on that add is not applied. I've intentionally tried to drop MC (in 10 man with a controlling crystal) to make it apply to my add.

So if one of these deaths happen, you were definitely still in combat from the boss death. I'm guessing that means it would cancel the Undying/Immortal.

It shouldn't. On our first successful Immortal we were joking around after Razuvious had died (But we were still in combat, killing adds) saying "Wouldn't it be funny if someone died now" surely enough a lock pulled agro and died, but we all still got immortal at the end of the run. So I would imagine in that situation you should be fine.

EDIT: To clarify for the above post, we never left combat.

I think Udalan is likely correct, because it's also the case on 4H that as long as you die after Rivendare, Undying/Immortal is intact, and the people in the back with Blameux and Zeliek don't leave combat when Rivendare dies. So you don't have to get out of combat, you just have to die after the boss.

In my successful Undying run two people died to Grobbulus clouds after the boss was dead and we were still in combat. I'd presume the same goes for Immortal so dying to clouds doesn't mean you lose it if the boss is dead.