we (LoH) use a modified "zero" sum DKP system very similar to yours. recently we've had situations arise where items would drop that very cleared favored certain classes, but could also be used by members of other classes who had higher points and also bid on those items. of course there are some situations where we would absolutely draw the line (like hunters getting priority on bows and guns), but other cases are not so clear. for example, alot of weapons drops definitely favor warriors, or rogues. but oftentimes paladins also want these items even though they would do more service to the guild and be put to better use in the hands of warriors or rogues. have you guys exoerienced simiar quandaries - perhaps with shamans? and if so, would any of you mind sharing how you deal with these situations? thanks in advance.

Whatever would benefit the raid/guild more.

An example or two would be nice for commentary.

Typically, though, melee-class weapons go to physical damage classes first, and shamans only get them if no warriors/rogues/hunters want them first.

It's one of those things that's guaranteed to cause tons of bitching and moaning, but they have to realize that you have to look at what benefits the raid most. Sure, some +crit cloth piece would be great for a pvp priest, but in a raid situation a priest is only healing, and thus it would be a waste.

Get people used to putting the raid first, and get them to realize that the better the raid as a whole is, the more purplez there will be to go around.

basically i'm just wondering if you guys stick to your DKP standings and let the player with the highest points who can use the item take it, or do you depart from the DKP standings in some situations and give preference to certain classes. if so - how do you guys go about doing it?

i guess i can give you the example that prompted this discussion amongst the officers. last night we killed Razorgore and an Untamed Blade dropped. pretty much all the officers felt it should go to a warrior, but a paladin had the most points and bid on it. we were kind of conflicted about what to do and had never discussed the possibility of this type of situation before. most of us felt that there was nothing wrong with the paladin wanting this item at all, just that it would be MUCH better off in the hands of one of our sword specced MS warriors (and would benefit the guild more). in the end, since we had no predetermined system set up in place for this, we said nothing and the paladin took the blade. i myself am very conflicted on the issue, because there is absolutely no reason i can think of that paladins shouldnt try for 2H swords. heck, Arthas was a paladin that wielded a 2H sword (Frostmourne). furthermore, the DKP system is supposed to be about impartiality and the people with the most points getting the items they want (within reason). but at the same time, warriors can definitely make better use of it.

If an item is clearly suited for one particular class, then the highest JP holder of that class has dibs. So if some warrior wants a 1-hander that is much more useful in the hands of a rogue, that warrior is shit out of luck until all rogues have an epic.

A point system is indeed impartial but only in terms of time spent raiding. Loot distribution should always be based on making the raid force stronger, not some paladin whose desire is to stroke his e-dick in front of the auction house.

Uh, you're also not too familiar with shamans it seems. We can't use swords, you doof.

But yes, the general principle behind the post is accurate.

A warrior certainly could get some use out of Vis'kag, but it's the very best combat rogue sword in the game, short of a Chromaggus drop (and Thunderfury, haha) so warriors only get it if no rogues want it. These preferences are in line with what would benefit the raid. As a shaman, I'd love a Deathbringer for PvP, or a Crown of Destruction, but our melee role in a raid situation is highly limited. If you give godly melee DPS gear to a class that spends 90% of the time in MC/BWL healing and pretty much only melees on trash, Garr, or other similar unimportant situations, then you're wasting that item.

So, as for Untamed Blade, yes, in my view it should go to a warrior without a Ragnaros-caliber 2h first. Paladins can, and will, get Spinals, Bonereaver's, and Untamed, but not before the warriors who spend a large percentage of every single raid DPSing get them. This isn't the only way to do it, of course, but it's the best, in my opinion. Is this somewhat subjective? Yes. How to make it less so? Lay out class priorities before the item drops, so it doesn't become "well the officers want Player A to get the sword and not Player B." As much as possible, decide loot stuff before you're actually looking at the corpse and the shiny purple and everyone is drooling and personally invested. We have tons of arguments on our forums in a big loot thread with classes speaking up about repricing loot, or changing class priorities, but that's the best place to have those arguments.

Also, Steelfleece, I notice you tried to sneak this one in:
:blink:

Wait a minute, since when can shamans use swords? :o

[Edit] God damn it Gurgthock

Fixed, damnit blue nerf shamans!

In my defence I was forced to go to BWL yesterday so I didn't get much sleep, damn mandatory raiding hours :(
(send help)

Hey I'd hope Hunters would be getting Core Hound Tooths and Doom's Edges before shamans!

Oh yeah, that's exactly how it played out. "God dammit Greybone, you must come kill these drakes or you're being /gkick'd on the spot!"

And then I forced you to loot those Ebony Flame Gloves. I'm such a cruel leader.

thanks for the helpful replies guys. after last night we were thinking about putting in class restrictions too but we weren't sure how it'd work out with the points system or whether we were being too dictatorial and subjective

PG uses zero sum dkp modified rolls with class restrictions.

We found that coming up with point values and class restrictions on our own forced everyone to both learn about other classes needs and distinguish between different quality items instead of going "omg purple i want!!!11" when it dropped. It also kept stupid "I want this item that i will only use in duels with class X" drama to forums or small meetings instead of when the item dropped, when it is far less pleasant to deal with.

:ssh: that was supposed to be our dirty LoH secret.

I don't think we would've let a paladin have Untamed Blade, since paladin melee damage is laughable in PvP and especially in raids.

guild chat tonight:

<Toros> why the fuck does this paladin have an untamed blade?

This one time a paladin melee'd me while I was shooting, I took a priest from full to 0 while he was meleeing me, then a rogue attacked and I killed it too, then I scattershotted the Paladin and ran away at about 35%. This is why I would be upset about a paladin taking any purple melee weapon.

Strangley enough, ppl complain about hunter melee :o

Nothing and I mean NOTHING beats raptor strike.

You mock now, but when Raptor strike has a 45% critrate you won't.

Yes, doom will come soon.

Although i hear they locked the hunter forums because of an incoming dps nerf >< .

bahaha. Hunter DPS got buffed in the last patch - the fact that it's less crit-based is probably a good thing for PvE.

Why are there so many dense hunters?

Also, did Airex break 6K HP just wandering around?