If you're having that much difficulty with everyone moving out of sparks and staying stacked, I recommend practice outside an instance. Have your entire raid mount and group up in the air somewhere. Have them move on a vent call of "left" or "right" (depending on your strategy). Will it be boring? Yes. Will people be annoyed? Yes. Just tell them that it's over as soon as they do it properly.
You should have organization fairly quickly. You can also improve this slightly by marking one drake with a symbol. It helps the original group up, but people tend to lose it after that. Be warned, you will have some people in Malygos who suddenly cannot move properly again. These are the people who always stare at cooldowns and not the rest of the screen and don't listen to instruction. 99% of raids have at least 1 or 2.
Far more common in my experience is people constantly inching left. You wind up with the raid very spread out as people move when there is no reason, then people die outside of range of healer drakes - their own fault. Your raid leader should tell people to stack tightly and only move when they A) hear it on vent or B) hear a crackly lightning noise in their speakers.
Is there a way to get somewhat decent stats for phase 3? I'm not looking for damage done, I just want to know why people are dying. Specifically if people are being killed by Surge of Power or the static field. I haven't been able to get what I'm looking for from WWS or Recount.
Is there a way to get somewhat decent stats for phase 3? I'm not looking for damage done, I just want to know why people are dying. Specifically if people are being killed by Surge of Power or the static field. I haven't been able to get what I'm looking for from WWS or Recount.
Recount works fine for this if you change the settings to record and show data for pets.
If you want to use WWS and are willing to put a tiny bit of effort into it, I made a post about what you can do a while ago. Basically it just modifies the combat log so that WWS can link the drakes properly. It also renames the drakes so that you can use the combat log browser within WWS (if they are all named the same thing, the filters are basically useless).
If you're having that much difficulty with everyone moving out of sparks and staying stacked, I recommend practice outside an instance. Have your entire raid mount and group up in the air somewhere. Have them move on a vent call of "left" or "right" (depending on your strategy). Will it be boring? Yes. Will people be annoyed? Yes. Just tell them that it's over as soon as they do it properly.
You should have organization fairly quickly. You can also improve this slightly by marking one drake with a symbol. It helps the original group up, but people tend to lose it after that. Be warned, you will have some people in Malygos who suddenly cannot move properly again. These are the people who always stare at cooldowns and not the rest of the screen and don't listen to instruction. 99% of raids have at least 1 or 2.
Far more common in my experience is people constantly inching left. You wind up with the raid very spread out as people move when there is no reason, then people die outside of range of healer drakes - their own fault. Your raid leader should tell people to stack tightly and only move when they A) hear it on vent or B) hear a crackly lightning noise in their speakers.
One of the things we did that helped even the cooldown-watchers was to tell them to watch the mini map. Malygos always descends right into the middle of where the platform was, and we position our raid along the outer ring of the platform - which is still shown on the mini map. If you move off the outer ring and die from lack of heals, it's your own dumb fault. Our biggest problem after that turned out to be vertical movement, people who for some odd reason couldn't strafe around in a flat circle (and weren't watching eye level, somehow) and wound up flying too far up or too far down. The only thing I could do there was to berate people to "make sure you have 25 pairs of red dragon wings beating madly on your screen, and if you don't, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG."
Does the scions follow the same targeting mechanics as aran in karazhan? Particularly question if scions can target and barrage pets, from things like snake trap/army of the dead?
I looked through about 15 Malygos fights and didn't see a pet ever get hit by a Scion, so I'd say that they aren't valid targets.
They aren't at all, I just leave my imp in the center and he dps' scions with me takes like 2k dmg from a deep breath and thats it. Pet control is minimally needed at best in p2.
The character linked in your profile appears to be below level 10. This may account for your poor Patchwerk DPS.
During the Vortex is Phase 1, is there a way to know what position one is facing?
I see Malygos in front of me, but I have to turn/rotate before I am able to cast my instants. (ABarr, FireBlast, Pom-AB, Abarr, Slow Fall, Icelance, ABarr ) by which time I have decended on the ground and am moving again to a sparkfield. I just notice I loose out on DPS time when I happen to turn the wrong way before I loose the "Face wrong way" message.
During the Vortex is Phase 1, is there a way to know what position one is facing?
I see Malygos in front of me, but I have to turn/rotate before I am able to cast my instants. (ABarr, FireBlast, Pom-AB, Abarr, Slow Fall, Icelance, ABarr ) by which time I have decended on the ground and am moving again to a sparkfield. I just notice I loose out on DPS time when I happen to turn the wrong way before I loose the "Face wrong way" message.
Just check the arrow on the minimap. Malygos is in the center of the platform, so your arrow needs to point to the center aswell.
Thanks for the advice earlier on phase 3. Never really did get people to move properly, so had people make a macro with "/follow" and it was all trivialized. Had 6-7 people healing and didn't use shields, think we lost 4 people in total.
Dumb question, but are they /follow playername macros? It seems obvious enough; but I'm asking before I have 24 people do this only to learn I missed some oddball thing about the vehicle mechanics and this won't work.
Mideci, the thing is that if you macro the /follow thing (in order to have a simple action bar button to click), most people are likely not to have access to their standard action bars when they enter the vehicle (red drake).
Prior to the pull, I ask everyone to type in a chat window "/follow <whoever>", highlight and CTRL+C the text.
Then during the little time you have right after getting on the drake at the beginning of P3, people just open a chat line, and paste (CTRL+V) the line.
Obviously, people with actionbar mods won't have this problem, providing that they make sure the bar they put their macro icon in will be visible when inside/on a vehicle
We have been trying for the 6 minute Malygos kill for a couple of hours total now, but so far without any real success.
On thursday when we last tried it we ran a setup of 2 tanks 4 healers and 10 melee and 9 ranged.
Phase 1 was not too bad. We got him to fly up right after the 2nd vortex. On our best try we got him to 36% before p2 started. On average Malygos was just around 40-42% though and this is definitely where we lose due to our rather melee heavy group. We never managed to get into the RP stage before the 2nd vortex, but on our best tries we were at most 2-3 seconds off (this with me as a holy priest dpsing in this phase since there was no real need to use 4 healers).
Not being able to beat the 2nd vortex means that obviously we lose a significant chunk of time on the clock and also that during the air phase we will not be able to take advantage of the 2 stacked sparks buff to help our ranged group. 2 of our ranged dps were sadly somewhat under geared and 2 of the melee were tanks who had respecced for this fight and their off-spec gear could also use a few upgrades, but this would all have to wait until next Naxxramas reset.
While beating the 2nd vortex would give us a lot better chance to beat the timer I know that this can still be done without it. Where we completely lose it though is the 2nd phase. Perhaps we lack practice in that phase, but our best tries clearing that phase were around the 2nd deep breath. And from what I have heard from guilds who have done it and seen on the various youtube videos we are a whole 1 deep breath away from the "average".
Our strategy is for the melee to focus on the ground mobs while our ranged should ideally focus on the Scions and preferably on the same targets to free up discs so our melee could help on the scions as fast as possible. If there are any spark-fields we would stay in them and our paladins would rotate divine shields (2/2 Divine Guardian) to reduce the incoming damage.
What happens though is that we get perhaps just one or two scions down before the Nexus Lords are dead. This just means a lot of our melee are standing around waiting for discs to become available and we lose precious dps. Our ranged has admitted to having messed up on some of the cases and not targeting the same mobs and I can also see that from the WWS logs, but even if everything goes smooth it is difficult to see us getting 6 scions down by the time melee is done on the ground so that none of the melee dps would go to waste.
All this combined, what we are facing is entering 3rd phase (including the time that Malygos is untargetable) with at best 1:30-1:40 on the clock and Malygos just at around 40%. Not enough to finish him off in time with a strategy involving 5 aoe healers, 1 suicide CoE Warlock and 19 damage-drakes.
Now. We are having another go on Sunday if all goes well and hopefully we will be able to improve. It is unlikely that we will be able to bring much better dps since we have tried to keep our raiding roster rather small.
I have been considering running with three total healers and just one tank. While this might help us a bit in phase 1 by beating the vortex - it will also mean that we will have less control in phase 2. I think our biggest improvement can still come from phase 2 if we get all the ranged to focus on same targets and ignore the nexus lords completely.
Perhaps someone has any suggestions on what else we could do to improve that I might have missed.
We are in the same boat Ladorin. Exacly same problem however as you mentioned its phase2.
After checking my WWS, doing the math it turns out to very bad assisting on scions. From my calculation with the setup we run last time, with 1 spark down (DKs griping the spark to middle after 2nd vortex) we should have 1 scion dead every 3-4sec under perfect conditions if ranged dps did its job. For us it was more or less 12-15sec per scion which was losing us the kill whole night.
Next time we go there, i'm gonna use this addon RaidTargetList beta since i play melee its impossible for me to focus how well is the assisting done, beside WWS after raid.
We are in the same boat Ladorin. Exacly same problem however as you mentioned its phase2.
After checking my WWS, doing the math it turns out to very bad assisting on scions. From my calculation with the setup we run last time, with 1 spark down (DKs griping the spark to middle after 2nd vortex) we should have 1 scion dead every 3-4sec under perfect conditions if ranged dps did its job. For us it was more or less 12-15sec per scion which was losing us the kill whole night.
Next time we go there, i'm gonna use this addon RaidTargetList beta since i play melee its impossible for me to focus how well is the assisting done, beside WWS after raid.
3-4 seconds is theory, not reality. We have pretty good ranged dps and they take on average 9-10 seconds each scoin. On our last 6 min kill (1 vortex, so we didnt go too agressivly in p2), here are the death times of the scoins:
Thats 8 scoins in 74 seconds (phase 2 spawned at 21:47:29) and 9.25 on average. (earlier ones and later ones die faster because of sparks and melee in the end)
If the later ones went down at the same rate, our ranged dps would do equal to yours. Don't forget it can also be because your melee is slow in getting discs and such.
Yes but if you consider extra 5-6sec per scion its awfull waste of time multiplied by 8 thats where we miss the timer.
Myself i don't have fully accurate WWS from our tries since i forgot to increase combat log range, but assisting at least on 1-4 scions was crap in our case, thats with 12 ranged, 1 tank , 4 healers. Another problem that comes with slow scion killing at the start are random deaths from double barrage but that's a different story, which is more or less nulified by the fact you can kill more scions at the start in shorter time frame.
I don't claim that 3-4sec per scion is what people should aim for, but going from 3-4sec perfect conditions to 15sec is kinda too much. You can only do better.
One thing i've been wondering how to parse correct phase1 + fly phase dps. The only number i am missing to do so is how long it takes for malygos to fly and become out of range for ranged classes.
We never managed to get into the RP stage before the 2nd vortex, but on our best tries we were at most 2-3 seconds off
Try have all your DPS use a Speed/Wild Magic potion right after killing the 2nd Spark. This should buy you the extra seconds needed. Can´t see everybody use flasks in your WWS either. Wow Web Stats
Also, when Malygos takes off, we use to have our DK pull the 3rd Power Spark and then the 2nd DK pull it into middle of the first arcane shield to make sure that no one dies during phase 2.
I'd think that if you don't have the DPS to get him to 50% before the second vortex then you probably don't have the DPS to get the Scions down fast enough in phase 2 either.
From my guild's attempts we were having almost flawless Phase 2 and Phase 3 and were just missing the second vortex repeatedly. When we got him to Phase 2 before the second vortex we got it that attempt.
Perhaps someone has any suggestions on what else we could do to improve that I might have missed.
We use 4 healers. You really should get him to 50% before that second vortex to have a real chance of beating the timer, while it's definitely doable by getting a 2nd vortex this is heavily dependent on you pulling him below 50% while in the vortex.
In actuallity, 2 of those 4 healers are Hybrids specced for DPS. If you assume you are only going to get one vortex ... you don't even need to heal during the vortex, just have everybody pop a healthstone. The Elemental Shaman only heal during Phase 2 and directly after the first vortex.
Use only one tank. We prefer a Deathknight because of his high avoidance and multiple cooldowns to mitigate MT damage, it helps a lot with reducing the number of healers we need to bring. This can get hectic during Phase 2 seeing as he has to tank 4 Lords, so we use defensive cooldowns on him - Bubble+Hand of Sacrifice when his Ice Bound Fortitude isn't up. The holy paladins are specced for Divine Guardian as well - so we can use Divine Guardian + Anti Magic Zone to stand outside a bubble for 10 seconds if we manage to get a spark during Phase 2.
Have your ranged assist and only kill the Scions - rotating counter clockwise on the platform. Have the melee kill the Lords and once all the lords are dead help kill the scions that are out of range from the casters.
Yea, you have a lot of melee DPS. My suggestion is to have them respec to a caster spec if possible. We did it with 5 Melee DPS total last week - Ret Paladin, Fury Warrior, Enhancement Shaman, Dual Wield Deathknight, and a Mutilate Rogue.
In Phase 3, you don't need 5 healers. We use 4 healers, the same 4 who heal during Phase 1. We have a heal rotation set up where we have two healers build up 5 combo points and wait until they see Malygos cast Surge of Power and then stagger their heals two seconds apart. Then for the next Surge of Power healers # 3 and 4 use their heal while the first two healers regen energy and build up combo points.
You actually don't need to use your Fire Shield during phase 3 unless you're targeted multiple times consecutively with Surge of Power. We found that people often lost their stacks using Fire Shield so we just opted to heal through it.
Our DPS used a rotation like this - 1 1 2. Wait 2 seconds. 3. Repeat. Self cast needs to be enabled to work. This enabled our healers to just ignore healing through random static charge damage and there was no need to have to cast Life Burst multiple times to top people off. Again, it also helped with the No Fire Shields strategy.
Use a warlock to sacrifice himself to put up Curse of Elements. It really does add up.
All of this amounted to us beating the fight with about a minute left to spare - so there is definitely room for margin of error. Our ranged DPS was far from optimal as well - a lot of healers respecced to DPS specs they aren't used to as well as melee and tanks logging on hunter alts and such.
Use a warlock to sacrifice himself to put up Curse of Elements. It really does add up.
This is a useful point. The warlock giving CoE makes his/her death very worthwhile in the 25man, while in the 10 man it is almost certainly a loss in DPS.
Use a warlock to sacrifice himself to put up Curse of Elements. It really does add up.
I have not intentionally sacrificed myself, but accidently applied CoE once when I died. I found that it helped immensely so I can vouch for this. Now if I do die dying phase 3, I always be sure to apply the debuff. I am unsure of other classes, but if any members have dots or debuffs to increase damage, especially fire, have them apply it if possible. Every bit will help, and it could shave off those few seconds needed for a kill.
03/09/09, 11:30 AM
