I'm not really familiar with anyone actually using WG over Rejuvenation on vortex. This said even if they don't nerf the vortex I'm positive rejuvenation is sufficient in 10-man to keep everyone up (and to keep 15-20 up in 25-man). I can't say with certainty for priests but a combination of prom, rejuvenation, shield and CoH should be adequate in 10-man at least.

Assuming everyone's wearing wotlk gear (=proper stamina) you don't quite need to top up the raid after a vortex anyway, just getting to a decent health level should be enough.

People don't need to be topped off during vortex -- they only need to survive, as there is time for 2-3 casts between the end of vortex and malygos breathing on the raid again. As a shaman, I cast CH right as I hit the ground (Malygos will not hit you if you are standing underneath his stomach).

When CoH/WG get their cooldowns, priests and drudis still have a lot of instant casts to use, so it's not like they will be twiddling their thumbs for most of vortex. Priests still have PoM, PW:S, guardian spirit/pain supression, renew, and (potentially) surge of light and/or IHC haste. Druids still have lifebloom and rejuvination, and WG remains very strong for vortex even with a cooldown.

Even the doom-and-gloom for shaman/paladin healers is overstated. On nights when I have a ping of ~500, I can still get off about two Riptide-hasted Lesser Healing Waves during vortex, for a total of 4 direct heals plus any ancestral awakening procs that happen. Paladins have a similar deal with holy shock crits and FoL. The key is that the rest of the raid has to adjust if you have only shaman and paladin healers: put on stamina gear and eat stamina food for the 10-man version; use scrolls of stamina if you don't have a priest; make sure you have MOTW or (worst case scenario) frost aura to help resist the damage. Malygos gives more than enough warning for a shaman/paladin combo to top the raid off before vortex, and during vortex smart target selection is essential (read: don't heal tanks, DKs, or demonic circle using warlocks). The number of people who absolutely must be topped off during vortex is a lot smaller than it seems at first glance, meaning shaman and paladin healers don't have it *quite* as bad in practice as they do in theory.

If the healers can't seem to handle it and there's no one to switch out, then make sure that hybrids have some procs saved up for the eventual vortex (ret paladins save art of war; enhance shaman save malestrom weapon; shadow priests bounce a PoM off the raid right as malygos goes up). In the current content, 10 mans reward flexibility to the same extent that 5 mans do.

Just wanted to add a word of warning here. This is true for 10-man malygos, but not for 25-man. If you stay at the landing spot to cast even one chain heal, you have a chance to get hit by the breath. It will hit you at the landing spot, and it can cast as soon as during the first cast.

For 10-man it probably works fine to cast 2 or 3 chain heals.

Is there a way to get any useful information from WWS regarding P3 drakes' usage?

I'm trying to find out who is stupid enough not to be able to press 2 buttons. So far the reports have been anonymous (all actors were drakes). But looking at parses from last night I can see people having Engulf in Flames skill listed as a damage skill. The problem is only a small part of damage has name tags on it. The rest (93%) is still labelled Wyrmrest Skytalon.

Any tips?

You could use MalygosHelper - Addons - Curse to check the stacks while in combat.

I don't think it's possible with the current wws version.

That happens when Engulf in Flames ticks on while the caster's dragon has already died.

Thanks Melthu, I'll try it next week

Just not to make this post worthless: have anyone seen a bug where after P3 wipe a person gets to keep his/her drake and is able to use him on the next try? One of our tanks experienced it. 12k dps in P1 is priceless. Also drakes produce no threat against Malygos, making such help a huge raid dps buff.

Not sure how it happened, also never tried to reproduce. Malygos is a pretty easy game by now, but this could trivialise 5 min kills for guilds with a bit less conscience and/or feer DKs/druids...

How did they manage to not be killed? Seems like a pretty ridiculous bug to pull off.

Maybe if you disconnect. Reminds me of the Lady Vashj exploit where you could log out with a core and would keep it this way for the next try to shorten or even skip phase 2 with 4 cores.

Yes I've seen that happen. The drake most definitely did build threat on Malygos however, as we used it to tank him.

After clearing Naxx10 for the first time this week with pretty minimal effort (KtZ two shot after a silly wipe caused by tank not moving out of fire :P ) we decided to give Malygos10 a try.

We did 10 attempts in total, never once making it to phase3

Attempt 9 was our best I reckon

Now my concerns are as follows:

As the rogue in the group, I was struggling to keep within the 'killing zone' to get the most of the two or three dead flares we had there. We used the tactic used on the TankSpot video and we've yet to perfect getting them all dead in the exact centre unfortunately.

Second issue is our DPS, even if we did get to P3 we wouldn't have time to kill him since we were taking 5 mins to do P1, but with better flare management surely this situation will improve.

The two biggest DPS worries I had was our Hunter and our DK, both of which can do ~2500dps on Patchwerk. The hunter complained alot with deadzone issues, again not being able to take up the buff and DPS at the same time - but still 1400dps is scarily low even without the buff. Anyone else having Hunter DPS trouble here?

The DK issue was because I think he's too distracted with flares trying to pull them to the centre and nuke them down, I need to get him to concentrate more on boss DPS and let the tank positioning do all the work as far as flares are concerned.

Is it worth saving up the first few flares btw in like a frost nova or something and then nuke them all at once after the first Vortex? I'd like to try this next time to hopefully get us more than 2/3 stacks of the buff at once.

Our Problem with P2 was people dying, despite being central in an AMZ :s A few of us were taking 14k+ from the Arcane Barrages despite being in the bubbles, but I've read here an issue possibly lag related involving "jumping" into the zones and not letting the server update by standing still - so we'll try this differently next week.

What time does everyone aim for between phases? I've been aiming for 6min30, 3min30, dead - Hopefully we'll perform better on P3 when we *finally* get to see it.

From our WWS, can anyone offer any pointers. I'm trying to get people to "do more DPS" but it's not that straight forward so it seems

Unfortunately not, as I said the Hunter *can* do 2500 on Patchwerk so I just don't get it. On Attempt 9 (our best IMO), I checked for pet deaths and allsorts - nada. I'm trying desperately to figure stuff out before our next raid in there as I really think people playing with a spec/rotation capable of 2500 at patchwerk is enough for this fight when stacked with two or more flares. I just can't get the answers I want from my WWS as hard as I try!

One thing I've noticed in all our Malygos attempts was that when sparks weren't sufficiently stacked, DPS output seemed abnormally low. We have some 25-man gear on some of our DPS and I've personally seen them putting out over 3k on Patchwerk 10-man, but when we first came up against Malygos they were at less than half that. Once we got the tank kiting strategy down so we could stack the sparks up properly, though, the DPS numbers started looking more wholesome.

As a note to the previous poster, if the hunter is complaining of dead zone issues, perhaps you can tank Malygos farther out? We typically run melee-heavy, but we still tank Malygos pretty far out and haven't had any trouble burning him down in ~4 minutes. We also kill sparks as they spawn and don't "save" any and it still works.

Phase 1 should be pretty stationary minus the vortex. Have everyone grouped together and have the DK pull the sparks to the raid. DPS really shouldn't have to move a lot, so if his dps is half what it is on patchwerk than he's doing something wrong. I'm not a hunter, but I thought they removed the deadzone on most shots. Looking at attempt 9 he was actually meleeing for some time...

Either way, I wouldn't blame not being able to kill the boss on just him. Pretty much all the dps in your raid are doing really low damage considering they should have at least +50% damage buff from sparks all of phase 1. Complicated spark strats really aren't needed unless you're going for the 5 minute kill achievement. Just have the DK pull them as close to the dps as he can and kill it. If you have to move into the new one then move.

For our first 10 and 25 kills we spent about 4 minutes in P1, 3 in P2, and finished barely in P3. It really comes down to the spark management. It also helps tremendously to have competent ranged DPS; melee DPS is at a severe disadvantage here.

Malygos has a huge hit box, you end up meleeing him a lot further away than on normal mobs, unless sparks are positioned properly it's not possible to use ranged attacks and also stand in the buff cloud.

So your resto druid managed to solo heal Malygos 10? How difficult was that, and was anyone else off healing for either phase 1 or phase 2?

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but I am under the impression that the arcane bolt volley Malygos casts in phase 1 is spell reflectable if you have a prot warrior tank with improved spell reflect. How important is that to burning Maylgos down to ~60% by the time the 3rd spark spawns (I saw a few WWS parses with Malygos doing about 4k dps to himself)? Am I correct in assuming that you pop the sparks when the 3rd spark is in position for Malygos 10?

Thanks for this, I'll look into it

To just limit myself to the Hunter:
- His spec should be 50/21, not 51/20. Well, there's a lot more not right here upon careful inspection. Like 4/5 kindred spirits instead of 5/5? No go for the throat in a BM build? Improved arcane shot which you will never use over steady? No, no. He needs to check out cookie-cutter specs rather than randomly clicking.
- Has too low +hit, +3,9% should at least be 5% when taking focused aim (since 8% is the cap, although 8% from gear would be even more preferable since it gets transferred to the pet as well). And he doesn't even have that.
- Is still using a level 70 trinket from badges, to which more than 1 upgrade are available while leveling. Lots of other upgrades (from heroics/naxx10) possible.

Now, as for the WWS:
- He is using aimed shot/arcane shot a lot. His rotation should be: keep serpent up, spam steady. Nothing else.
- Spends way too much time in Viper, which obviously has to do with the mana consumption of arcane/aimed. Didn't use a mana-pot the entire evening, cheap.
- Try 9 (you mention this is your best try): Used Beast within and his broodlust brooch trinket once in a 5:14 min fight (think he didn't use the other one at all)? Didn't use rapid fire? No Kill Commands?

In general: yes, hunters have problems with getting the sparks, but even so your hunter should be capable of a lot more. If the spark is too close I personally just tend to ignore it since the +50% dmg boost just doesn't feel like it's worth it to just melee instead. If there are 2 or 3, it might be advisable to pop AotB and just melee around some, but I haven't seen sparks being positioned that crappy yet

edit: keep in mind that this is not patchwerk, people get thrown into the air and have to move a lot. The sparks should compensate for this DPS loss, but vortexes and changing to DPS the sparks can sometimes throw CD combinations/rotations out of the window.

We encountered something last night that I just assume is a bug but maybe it isn't. The situation is that on Omen everybody is well below the MT on threat and then Mirror Image is insanely above Malygos, and pulls aggro which means we wipe because Malygos breaths the raid. Then it shows a Mage max on threat, so I assume the Mirror Image belonged to him...

Why did the Mirror Image have insane threat all of a sudden? Has anybody experienced this?

Sorry didn't know where to post this.

Check the mage forums. If a mage is above 97% of the MT threat when he summons Mirror Image, they will pull aggro. Mirror Images are summoned with 133% of the mages threat.

I uploaded a video of it.

YouTube - Mirror Image (Mage) bug during Malygos

If you watch Omen right before the Mirror Image has aggro and insane threat, Draygon has 90% of Okragos (MT).

edit: Question answered in Mage thread, I didn't consider the fact that on this fight the Mage is in melee range, so the MI's can pull aggro at a much lower threshold.