The icy art of making gold - Page 22

Murck · 01/13/09, 4:26 AM

Originally Posted by Longtooth

I am also thinking about the 3.0.8 new LW Leg-Kits
Two things seem important enought:
1. There is a new pattern with Resilence + Stamina. That many PvPers might decide is important due to the burst DMG they get atm. And might want to enchant their legs with it. More over it will be an enchant for all sort of classes and builds worth even for casters since it is Res+St
2. The added Frozen Orb to the crafting materials of kits.
From the two i think that the price of Kits will not only rise due to the added orb, but due to the increased demand in new kits consuming all limited supply of Arctic Fur there is on the market ATM

on Emeriss (EU) prices of Arctic Fur have increased by ~20% (80g atm)
Is skinning going to be cool ? only 10 skins for a 73 lvl green (for DE) and a chance on an Arctic Fur + the loot of an animal that might drop some meat ?

** Edit Gramar (i am bad at this sorry)

I saved up a few Artic Furs for 60g each and they rise each day closing up to patch so either we'll see a huge drop in prices when the patch hits or the prices will keep getting higher and higher. Also a proffession I noticed you can make LOADS of cash of is JC even thou I wasted about 800gold and a few hours mining I can still make 200-300g each day by doing daily and buying Dragon's Eye. Atleast on Stormscale - EU

ZeroWashu · 01/13/09, 6:03 AM

Originally Posted by Longtooth

on Emeriss (EU) prices of Arctic Fur have increased by ~20% (80g atm)
Is skinning going to be cool ? only 10 skins for a 73 lvl green (for DE) and a chance on an Arctic Fur + the loot of an animal that might drop some meat ?

** Edit Gramar (i am bad at this sorry)

While they are going to boost the critical effect granted by Master of Anatomy it still won't make it a "mini-max raid" trade skill yet at the same time skinning when combined with a class capable of doing good AOE is highly profitable. I use a boomkin for this work and can make a decent profit off of shoveltusk flank with the added bonus of a chance at an arctic fur; only about 50g on my server last I checked. Now the problem is that the flank is an iffy sale, however when combined with northern spices I have found that the +46sp/+30stam food sells for much more than the spices and flank separately. The key to note is to list on Tuesday night through Saturday, I don't get much response from the AH on Sunday/Monday (Tuesday is US patch day)

The one thing I am looking for now is packs of "Worgs" as the new +hit recipe based on them. That should, given time, put a dent in my fishing profits but in the end be more profitable again from the chance at arctic furs. The problem is they don't come in packs, unless that area near the horde city in borean is a good supply for meat drops.

Schniepel · 01/13/09, 6:43 AM

There is a cave in Storm Peaks which has an abundance of worgs and also a really ridiculous respawn rate, i.e. they repop as fast as you can kill them. A really good source of leather and meat.

Longtooth · 01/13/09, 7:58 AM

Originally Posted by ZeroWashu

yet at the same time skinning when combined with a class capable of doing good AOE is highly profitable. I use a boomkin for this work and can make a decent profit off of shoveltusk flank with the added bonus of a chance at an arctic fur; only about 50g on my server last I checked.
-
The one thing I am looking for now is packs of "Worgs" as the new +hit recipe based on them. That should, given time, put a dent in my fishing profits but in the end be more profitable again from the chance at arctic furs. The problem is they don't come in packs, unless that area near the horde city in borean is a good supply for meat drops.

Originally Posted by Schniepel

There is a cave in Storm Peaks which has an abundance of worgs and also a really ridiculous respawn rate, i.e. they repop as fast as you can kill them. A really good source of leather and meat.

I was thinking about that location too. The wierd thing is that Arctic fur Drops/skins more from mobs that don't have a specific other skin like Jormungal or Icy Dragonscales etc.
I did kill some Gorillas in Sholazar and i noticed that on the packs i take as a MM hunter to AOE on ~200 Gorillas i've skinned ~5 Arctic Furs (That is way more than the average 1%

One thing i probably do Different than the normal Skinner guy is i equip
Gatherer Enchant on Gloves +
Finkle's Skinner & Zulian Slicer
I have those 2 since before made them NOT (unique) Now people can get 2 of each
(should get a second Finkle's Skinner due to it's Bonus VS Beasts since most of the time the skinned guys are beasts)
They are a bit of downgrade and people can chose to equip/unequip them after and before skinns but i just kill all the mobs with them atm (damn Volley Nerf next pach)

Edit#1 I can not tell for sure if using such items actually increase the Skin rate of Artic Fur. However a change that blizz made to herbalism stated something like: "bonus skill points increase drop chances of rare herbs" made me think at that time that it should work the same for Skining. Could be my imagination of increased skin rate of Cobra Scales.
Edit#2 UBRS had a portal summon that requiered 3 ~ 5 people (i am not sure) that can now be usedby just 1 making the dagger much easier to get since you don't need people to help you now.

Bovigor · 01/13/09, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Longtooth

However a change that blizz made to herbalism stated something like: "bonus skill points increase drop chances of rare herbs"...

Does anyone have a source for this?

Soralin · 01/13/09, 4:48 PM

The statement is inaccurate if herbalism shares the same "spawn algorithm" as mining. For a long time pre-BC, people believed that increased mining skill (ie: 305 mining with the +5 glove enchant) would increase the chance of Arcane Crystals and other goodies dropping from nodes. However a blue post (which I can't find, unfortunately) cleared it up and stated that the contents of the mining node was decided when it spawned, not when it was mined - meaning that increased mining skill simply decreased your chances of "failed attempts" and did nothing to the contents of the node.

I'm unsure if this system is applied to herbalism and skinning as well.

Jaete · 01/13/09, 7:16 PM

I see no reason why herbalism wouldn't use the same spawn method as mining; for skinning, the contents of a mob are similarly known to be generated upon mob spawning, and these contents may reasonably be assumed to also contain the skinning results. I'd be interested in seeing a source for this claimed "Blizz change to herbalism", lest I be forced to consider it mere speculation.

Longtooth · 01/14/09, 4:28 AM

Blizzard made a change to the game that when you gather (mine/sking/pick herbs) with maxed skill level to never again get the "failed attempt" message.
Then in the same patch notes or the next one (maybe from MMO Blue Tracker) they mentioned that this change makes Cultivation an useless racial at maxed level. So then they stated that "bonus skill points" will be increasing the chance to pick bonus herbs from the nodes.

Since that day i've made for my guild Taurens the Alliance-LW:recipe "Herbalis's Gloves" enchanted with +5 Herbalism for a bonus 25 skill points and they are picking herbs like mad.
Those taurens have discussed with other herbalists in the guild (cloth wearers) and compared their pick rates
I am not a Herbalist but their conclusions have made several of my guildmates level "Tauren Herbalists Alts" for that added bonus.
I know there is no perfect comparison table and that it is all based on a speculation or luck and i have searched for that post myself several times with no luck. I can't even find the changes that indicate the removal of the failed mesage either.
The main reason i am searching for the post too is that i am not sure if it was stating only herbalism or all gathering profesions ... Other than that i am sure that i am not making it up and so are all my guildies

Can someone more resourcefull help in this search?

In addition borean leather stacks have dropped under 10 gold on my server
Enchanting materials have also dropped. However i found out that making 70 lvl - mail leggings (8 borean leather each) sell for 5.23 gold on the vendor making each stack worth 13.075 gold on the vendor after the conversion
So i am now buyng all the leather under 10 gold/stack and making a nice small profit (200g last night on discovery)
Edit: Bad spelling

Masnie · 01/14/09, 4:48 AM

The "failed attempt" at max Skill was removed in Patch 2.1:

Gathering skills no longer fail when you have reached the maximum skill possible.

I couldn't find anything in the patch notes about bonus items you could gather if you had above max skill, and given the common idea that node contents are decided upon the spawn of the node i find this very unlikely. Herbalism at max Level is just as useless as the other profession racials, so i doubt they would follow that argumentation.

Longtooth · 01/14/09, 5:13 AM

Originally Posted by Masnie

The "failed attempt" at max Skill was removed in Patch 2.1:

Gathering skills no longer fail when you have reached the maximum skill possible.

I couldn't find anything in the patch notes about bonus items you could gather if you had above max skill, and given the common idea that node contents are decided upon the spawn of the node i find this very unlikely. Herbalism at max Level is just as useless as the other profession racials, so i doubt they would follow that argumentation.

This is going to be my last post on the matter. (as i don't want to turn this beautifull tread into something else)
After this change a blue post somewhere stated that due to this change making the racial "Cultivation" obsolete after reaching max level from that point bonus skill points will act as a bonus chance for extra herbs from a node / rare herbs from a node. Even the bonus % was stated per extra skill point.
I am only unsude if the post had "herbalism" or "gathering" thus unsure if the change was made to skinning aswell

Maybe 2 crazy enought herbalists - a tauren with such gloves and another - non tauren could test this for us with 1000 nodes of the same herb in the same zone?
My observations are:
Taurens with gloves in my guild say "we pick 2-3 herbs rarely 1"
Non taurens without gloves state: "we pick 1-2-3 herbs per pick, it is randm".

Rannasha · 01/14/09, 5:30 AM

Originally Posted by Longtooth

This is going to be my last post on the matter. (as i don't want to turn this beautifull tread into something else)
After this change a blue post somewhere stated that due to this change making the racial "Cultivation" obsolete after reaching max level from that point bonus skill points will act as a bonus chance for extra herbs from a node / rare herbs from a node. Even the bonus % was stated per extra skill point.
I am only unsude if the post had "herbalism" or "gathering" thus unsure if the change was made to skinning aswell

Maybe 2 crazy enought herbalists - a tauren with such gloves and another - non tauren could test this for us with 1000 nodes of the same herb in the same zone?
My observations are:
Taurens with gloves in my guild say "we pick 2-3 herbs rarely 1"
Non taurens without gloves state: "we pick 1-2-3 herbs per pick, it is randm".

You'll have to provide some more solid evidence than "i once saw a blue post about it" or "taurens feel they get a bit more". The concept of the number/type of herbs depending on the herbalism skill conflicts strongly with what we know about loot-generation.

Galanna · 01/14/09, 7:52 AM

Well there is a precedent for an ability giving "more loot": Northern Cloth Scavenging for tailors.

But if it works the same way, it would only be affected by the Tauren racial itself and not skill bonuses. And it would give additional drops, so you would sometimes see more than one rare herb or more than 3 normal herbs, and Taurens could still loot the additional herbs after other herbalists took the base ones.

Nemantopia · 01/14/09, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Galanna

Well there is a precedent for an ability giving "more loot": Northern Cloth Scavenging for tailors.

But if it works the same way, it would only be affected by the Tauren racial itself and not skill bonuses. And it would give additional drops, so you would sometimes see more than one rare herb or more than 3 normal herbs, and Taurens could still loot the additional herbs after other herbalists took the base ones.

Actually, based on the way loot is coded, it's logical to assume that Northern Cloth Scavenging works like a passive form of Skinning. Whether and how much cloth is present for those with the skill is determined at spawn time, but only those with the skill have the ability to loot the cloth. This would also be in line with recipe drops that are only visible by those with the profession at the appropriate level to be able to roll.

Galanna · 01/14/09, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Nemantopia

Actually, based on the way loot is coded, it's logical to assume that Northern Cloth Scavenging works like a passive form of Skinning. Whether and how much cloth is present for those with the skill is determined at spawn time, but only those with the skill have the ability to loot the cloth. This would also be in line with recipe drops that are only visible by those with the profession at the appropriate level to be able to roll.

That's what I wanted to say, sorry if my post was not clear enough.

Scurn · 01/14/09, 2:38 PM

One method I've used with great success is a little controversial. What I have done is identify a couple people who like to buy up all of a certain item and relist them at 2-3x the normal market value. I then added them to my friends list. If I see one of them log on I will wait about 30-60minutes and then go search for auctions by them and then post items at slightly higher than normal market value but still well below what he has posted. The reason I don't just slightly undercut is twofold. First I want to make a nice profit while still retaining the average buyer as a potential customer and second these guys will also buy my auctions to retain their monopoly and sell at a much higher price. In fact over half my sales are to the very same guys that are trying to corner the market.

To fully take advantage of this method takes a little more work than your standard scheme in both identifying these sellers and being flexible enough to produce the goods they are using on demand. Inscription is especially nice because all you have to maintain is a supply of inks and make the necessary glyphs whenever an opportunity presents itself.

I don't mind making this public because I actually hope more people try this and stop these price fixing schemes from being as prevalent as they have become on my server which has a particularly small economy. I think 5 scribes, including myself, control ~80% of the glyph market.