We did 3 drake sarth in 25 man tonight using our standard warrior main tank. We had Shadron dead before Vesperon landed, so you just need really high dps so you never get the crazy breaths.

a 70k breath would do 56.5k damage after Frost Presence (-15%) and Magic Supression (-5%)

A 540 defense Icebound Fortitude would reduce that by another ~41.5%, making it 33k damage from the breath
A 565 defense IBF would reduce it by ~44.5%, making it a 31k breath.

A bone shield would reduce it to 45k damage or 25-30k combined with Anti-Magic Zone

A little bit of extra defense should make IBF able to handle one breath by itself. Simply switching to the new Gargoyle rune enchant and the new defense sigil should do the trick. A 6-charge Bone Shield is also enough to last at least 2 breaths, so you could potentially use Bone-Shield for both the 2nd and 3rd breaths if IBF isn't enough to absorb a breath by itself. Assuming enough defense that would leave you with:

1st breath : Anti-Magic Shell
2nd breath : Icebound Fortitude
3rd breath : Bone Shield + Anti-Magic Zone
4th breath : Anti-Magic Shell or Bone Shield + outside cooldown
5th breath: Anti-Magic Shell or outside cooldown or Icebound Fortitude (if it's off cooldown)
6th breath: Icebound Fortitude or outside cooldown

Best case scenario you could survive 5 breaths alone if the breaths come at longer intervals, and would need outside help for the 6th. Worst case scenario you would need help for at least the 4th and 6th breath. The fight definitely got a lot harder to tank for anyone other than a death knight or a druid. Even a 30% damage reduction from Hand of Sacrifice or Divine Guardian may not be enough to survive a breath by itself, so you would need a big cooldown or 2 lesser cooldowns for each breath.

For DK tanks, you don't need to do anything special to get blade barrier up. Blood boil works just fine, even while sarth is immune (runes still go on CD). Just make sure to keep frost fever up like normal, and blood boil to keep blade barrier up.

We did it tonight without knowing this twilight torment change ahead of time, it was a bit sloppy but we got through it with the normal setup anyways. I (feral druid) usually have tanked Sarth in our 25 man runs and did so tonight also, but it was much more involved than just tossing on my polar gear and saving an SI/Barkskin for if a healer got out of range or whatever. The key is minimizing the time you have Shadron alive with Twilight Torment up, once we remedied that it was ok, so I think its still doable for non-DK's but definitely have to be more watchful of cooldowns.

Also wanted to mention not seeing Tenebron run away to break eggs, so that helps a tad bit with burning Tenebron as quickly as possible.

I believe I saw an acolyte aggro without me actually hitting it.

So, we had gotten vesperon to 25% in 10 main prior to the patch, Feral druid on drakes, warrior on whelps, dk with the boss. We had been using a 3 heal setput with no so good results, so we changed a healer for a dps and ended up with Holy Priest, Resto shaman, 2 Frostfire Mages, Boomkin, Shadow priest and a fury wariror. It was going much better with this setup, and we managed to kill shadron 3 times but still wiped while trying to kill Vesperon, we had the warrior taunt sarthorian from me so I could go in to the portal with the 2 mages the boomkin and the shadow priest, the warrior would stay killing lava blazes. It was going ok but we had to leave it the other day after almost killing vesperon twice.

Now yesterday the patch came, and I thought it would be much easier due to the new spell resistance mechanic of death knights, but the chain of heal nerf and specially the permanent twilight torment makes it much harder, I barely survive a breath once vesperon acolyte is out with icebound fortitude, and I die popping bone shield, so this makes it much harder to survive once vesperon is down. Usually I have all cds when vesperon lands, so I use AMS for the first one, then IBF, and then I usually use Bone shield + [Mighty Fire Protection Potion] and then AMZ + some bone shield charge I should still have from the previous one, and then I would ask for a Guardian Spirit. One problem I had 3-4 times is I ask for Guardian Spirit like 5-6 seconds after the previous one but sometimes Sartharion just decides to take his time to cast, so I have to pop AMS the second the GS wears off and he decides to cast, and then I only have IBF and BS as amz will still be on cd, and BS isnt even enough on its own to survive now. So I usually get to the point where I know that im going to die as I only have bone shield, potions are on cd and even though I also take [Nightmare Seed] I usually die.

If GS goes properly I can use AMS later and usually some more cds will be up, but not being able to survive a breath only on bone shield makes this way harder. We are also having some issues with the circle of heal nerf using 2 heal, and we are not really sure if its doable post patch with this setup, it would probable be better swap the resto shamy for a priest or a paladin (better healing and a cd to survive breaths, we do have two outside bless atm though) and a elemental shaman for the fury warrior, but well the elemental shamy isnt a core member of our 10 man and the warrior is but we would have to leave them out. Im not really sure if its the setup or Im just slacking once vesperons lands but I see it very hard to survive with twilight torment always up and only one outside cooldown, should we really change the setup or is it ok?

Pestilence works as well now that it no longer has a cooldown.

Also did 3 Drakes last night and our add tank was saying the same. He had a bit more trouble than usual keeping them off the healers and non-enraged. Pre-patch we weren't getting more than 1/2 enraged per attempt, but last night we ended up switching our Rogue to Fan of Knives spam to remove enrages.

Thankfully we'd never relied on Twilight Torment removal for breaths, so that didn't impact us. However we did notice that our 6 healer setup - 3 Priests, 1 Pally, 1 Shaman, 1 Druid - had trouble keeping DPS alive with Twilight Torment up. In the end I switched in for a second Shaman healer, which made a massive difference. DPS took a bit of a hit, obviously, but the second Chain Heal made everything a lot more comfortable.

Was a rather messy kill in the end, due to some silly deaths, but the CoH/WG nerf was our biggest obstacle of the night.

The lava blazes have always been incredibly random, so I doubt that there were any direct changes to this mechanic. Sometimes the cyclone spawns just line up poorly with waves and also decide to spawn 6 blazes instead of 3, but again, this has always been part of the encounter. Four tanks has always been smoother for us on this fight for that reason.

As far as Twilight Torment goes: If you aren't using a DK (or a Druid with assistance) than you'll probably need to go with a more control-oriented strat if your DPS isn't strong enough to bring down Shadron before or very shortly after Vesperon is active.

The Twilight Torment change does make raid damage much spikier for when Shadron and Vesperon along with their acolytes are all active. Taking constant 2.5k ticks of damage from Torment and then having Lava Strike hit you for 10k caused quite a few deaths when using the zerg Shadron strat for a prolonged period of time. Our healers were not pleased with having to heal through the dps taking so much Torment damage as they really cannot afford to allow someone to stay at 50% or below hp for longer than a few seconds without risking their death.

While we had planned to start going back to our original strategy of taking portals as Vesperon became active to limit the Torment damage, we had Shadron at sub 30% when Vesperon joined the fight, low enough in hp that I risked ~20 seconds worth of RNG possibly killing someone off when Vesperon and acolyte were active to just get Shadron down.

It's definitely a bigger challenge for the healers after the Torment change, which I welcome so that we don't become complacent while farming this content.

Haven't had the same results, if you BB on immune mobs(or any other attack), the runes reset almost instantly, so I couldn't bloodboil twice to proc BB before first rune was back up. Maybe with more haste/bloodlust I could do it, but when I tried it wouldn't work. Heard Pestilence works however, so I'll just use that instead.

So, we had read in the patch notes that you are supposed to get a buff when coming out of the twilight realm that makes you immune to fire and shadow damage for a couple seconds for firewall/void random stupidity.

So. 2 Drakes dead and we are tidying up the adds in the nether realm. Fire wall is called and someone suggests we back off dps so we don't pop up in a bad spot. Raid leader says "Don't worry about it, new buff is in, go go". Add dies and we pop into a firewall....6 dps dead pretty much instantly.

Note, as of Wednesday night anyways, the buff for leaving the nether realm doesn't work or doesn't exist.

Still got the kill on that attempt though...go figure.

It's just shadow damage, like the tooltip says.

Good to know, but ripped right from their patch notes;
Just have to go back to dodging waves the old way with good timing/communication.

I was under the impression that the whole point of Twilight Residue was to prevent people from having to time killing the disciples around lava waves. If it doesn't work on those, then what is it good for?

I would assume its more balanced around preventing the gib from void zone exploding underneath you as you shift out; a much rarer, but completely helpless situation.

It was already there, pre-patch.

We just completed our second night of attempts on 3D 25man, and we are running into a block it seems. We are just meeting the DPS checks, we are downing Tenebron as Shadron becomes active with maybe a second or two overlap if any. We are burning bloodlust to make sure he is down and we have Shadron around 40%ish when Vesperon becomes active. The problem we ran into multiple times was sub 30% on Shadron we would lose 3-5 people from Twilight Torment damage before Shadron was killed. This coupled with at least 1-3 people dieing to Shadow Fissures/Flame Walls tended to do our raid in.

The setup for healers was 1 Paladin with BoS/Bubble, 2 Resto Shamans, 2 Resto Druids, 1 Holy Priest w/ GS. The cooldowns since we are using a DK tank was not an issue as he still survived a couple super breaths every attempt even if we lost dps. I am just curious if there is anything we can do to help keep people alive through burning down Shadron? Players were told to back off if they needed to to get healed back up but listening is hard sometimes.

You could add another holy priest, shadron will die slower but you will have an extra GS for the dk so it should cancel.

Also try bloodlust on Shadron instead of Tenebron. We had the same problem of losing too many dpsers from twilight torment + lava strikes despite consistently bringing Shadron down to sub 50%. We got our kill after switching to bloodlust on Shadron burn phase. (ie after Tenebron's whelps are killed). Healers say they can heal a lot more with bloodlust, thus being able to keep everyone up. Of course, your dps will need to be able to kill Tenebron before the second set of whelps without bloodlust.

I'd say get the people to stop dieing in fissures and lava waves and you're fine. Even if you have a few DPS go down, as long as you finish off Shadron and your healing corps is standing upright (and doing the same for your tanks), you will win the fight. Don't declare it over just because you lost a couple people, the fight gets really easy once Shadron goes down and it seems like your DPS is good enough that the Shadron+Vesperon overlap isn't that long at all.

Does anyone know the cooldown on the summoning of Shadron/Vesperon's acolytes? We're considering a strategy in which we burn down Tenebron with Bloodlust (killing him before Shadron becomes active), and DPS Shadron until ~10 seconds before Vesperon becomes active. At that point we will go in the portal and DPS Shadron's acolyte, waiting for Vesperon's acolyte to spawn before killing both. We are hoping that this will give us enough time to safely kill Shadron before both Acolytes return, thus avoiding some (if not all) of the super-breaths as well as limiting time with Twilight Torment active. Once Shadron dies, we will take all portals.

Previously we have not taken any portals until after Shadron dies (which we haven't gotten to yet), but if the cooldown on Shadron/Vesperon's portals is as long as that of Tenebron's, I think this strategy will help us.