Shuya: that is basically what we did, except we only killed Vesperon's since twilight torment became the major issue for us. I don't have the log but it felt like 20-30 seconds between acolytes.

Hmm, we using 4 dps and eveyone has around 3kto 3.5k with Bloodlust , we can manged to killed tenebron b4 second set tonight, but the whelps seem not comming out all at same time, 5 to 6 1 waves and then another 4 to 6 after tenebron dead, whille the tenebron tank had shardon and move to get Vesperon, we still have 5 to 6 whelps and people starting dying on lava and void zone said they cant see anything at that point because too many whelps.....

How did your drake tank transition on 3 drake ?

Does your add tank only standing at portal waiting aggro all whelps and when tenebron dead all dps switch to AOE adds, or once he aggro all whelps will move to get near tenebron for aoe both together ?

And how many whelps come out from portal each hatch ? I seem seeing them come out 5 to 6 each time but 2 time in 1 hatch ?

We had druid on tenebron , port pala on adds and durid also tank shardon when he fly down , tenebron will died soon after first set whelps then druid go to get Vesperon but at that point somehow either still have few whelps up and people starting failed on fire wall and void zone due the the messy , we never get shrdon below more then 70% after Aoe first whelps ....anything that we can change do better and make whelps died all same time ?


Thanks

That actually is the second whelp wave. When you kill Tenebron after 'Tenebron opens a twilight portal, Tenebron starts to hatch the eggs', the eggs will still hatch, and the whelps will still spawn even if tenebron is dead at that time.

But can anyone tell how many whelps come from each hatch ? because what i saw is like 'Tenebron opens a twilight portal, Tenebron starts to hatch the eggs', Then suppsoe have 12 whelps but they seem not all come out same time, every time i saw is like around 6 whelps then there few more come out when we think we clear all after tenebron, or it actually every hatch is only 5 to 6 whleps, even u kill tenebron early u still will have second waves ?

At the begning we tried to keep Bloodlust on shardon , so we kill tenebron in normal way and try to aoe after all whelps but that doesnt work well because even more messy with around 20 whelps up, I not sure if ppl are standing too close eachother when second fire walll come with 2 drakes and some whelps that causing void zone and fire walll all at same place so ppl dying or the fight suppose to be kill tenebron > aoe 6 to 8 whelps > shardon * no more whleps ? * OR teneberon > aoe whelps > shardon > more whelps and aoe ?



Thanks

There are a couple of points, Tenebron will run around hatching eggs in the twilight zone, and it may take a moment for them to appear in the real world, and they will appear where the eggs were in the twilight zone. Typically there are usually 9-12 whelps from what I have seen, but sometimes a few stragglers appear slightly behind the main group.

Secondly, as mentioned earlier (#303) if the second twilight portal is opened, the whelps WILL eventually spawn and enter the regular world, even if Tenebron has no time to hatch them. Whether this is a slight glitch or not, I do not know. But I have seen quite a few wipes simply because people though that the Tenebron whelps were finished with.

Also, do not worry about the position of the actual portal on Tenebron, the whelps do not spawn through the portal, but rather they spawn where their eggs are located in the twilight zone. This is why it looks like Tenebron has lost aggro and he begins running around, he is simply spawning twilight eggs and WILL eventually return to the tank.

The key is to worry about survivability while destroying Tenebron as quickly as possibly. Do not AoE too quickly on the whelps as you do not want to grab aggro from the tank. Focus fire on Tenebron until the last possible moment, by that time the tank will have solid aggro on ALL the whelps, and everyone can hit them quickly before the next wave.

I have also seen the whelps tanked by a DK with substantial DPS. In most cases when this is done most of the whelps are already dead by the time whelp AoE is required.

---

It would be an interesting experiment to see if you could send a tank through the portal, and simply have them attempt to gather up the whelps quicker once Tenebron starts hatching them, or whether they immediately enter the regular world as soon as the hatching occurs. This might lead to a quicker pickup of whelps and facilitate better placement.

Thanks for the quick respond but after patch when was our first night yesterday , we noticed tenebron had not once fly to hatch the potal itself but of couse the whleps still come but he just didnt move around anymore so make our dps more focus , we just kept failing on the second waves whelps after tenebron dead, so wondering if anything can improve of that moment .

Oh we have DK = MT , Druid = drakes , port pala = whelps & adds

Our rotation is druid > tenebron & shardon , port pala adds & whelps , when tenebron dead druid bring shardon to vers .

I was wondering if we focus fire tenebron try to make only 1 wave of whelps then maybe possible port pala take whelps and shardon so once tenebron dead free durid to vers is that easier ?



Thanks a lot

As Essen and yourself have stated, there have indeed been some changes to the mechanics then. I should perhaps amend my original post. Also, if Tenebron doesn't hatch the eggs, is it possible to accidentally damage them and cause them to hatch? Or can only Tenebron hatch them when you enter the portal at a later stage for the disciples?

They may have removed the movement portion of the hatching because it looked so glitchy and buggy with him randomly moving around.

Suffice to say, I think it is time for me to poke my head in there again to see just what is transpiring!

Having eggs appear unhatched in the phased zone has occurred on one of our kills as well, 2 weeks ago. We killed Tenebron almost at the same time that he "opened a portal", but well before he "began hatching eggs".

Having them up disabled the automatic exit of the phased zone. Also, killing them spawned no whelps, but once they were all dead, you were ejected out of the phased zone as normal when no mobs are up.

If anything, it's advantageous in a control-wise fashion to have them alive then, so you can control your entrance and exit into the phased zone a bit more directly, but it's not significant (and implies that you took longer than necessary to kill Tenebron, anyhow).

The same thing happened to us on a few attempts pre patch, the eggs would be inside they just wouldn't hatch. On our last kill we got 2 sets of whelps (we didn't have BL for the first drake) and still managed to do it. Just seems like now there's no way to avoid getting 2 sets of whelps.

I'm thinking of running a setup as follows, for 10 man Sarth, 2 tank, 3 heal, 5 DPS

DK on Sarth
(any class tank) on Drakes

2 tanks only, 5 DPS
now at this point run at least 2-3 PLATE DPS, Ret/DK/War who are going to pick up whelps/blazes through AoE, since no tank spec will be there for them. With 5 DPS, hopefully there wont be a second wave of Tenebron whelps.


As a healer myself, I really see how the CoH/WG nerf makes this encounter harder, so I am really strongly leaning to 3 healers at this point, or if you do go 2 at least an elemental Shaman to heal during Shadron sometimes. 3 healers and an ele shaman also might even be a good idea.

Basically the plan is to shy on tanks, and try to bring as much DPS as possible, have the plate suck it up on whelps for a bit, and split blazes (but the Drake tank would have to take enraged blazes).

Having only 4 DPS I think makes twilight torment, as well as breaths become larger issues than they possibly should be.


Another issue, was healers getting 'aggro', I think the solution to this may be to position them directly on top of plate DPS (who will be doing some OT'ing, or if you run with 3 tanks, then on top of whelp/blaze tank).


Basically, everything that has been said in this thread also, but those are my thoughts so far on this fight in 10 man.

Has the 15-minute Pyrobuffet enrage always been in place for this fight? My guild is way behind the curve, currently only trying to work on Sarth+1. We've had a few good attempts, but we always end up needing 3 heal, 3 tank to have everyone still alive at the end of the drake, and then DPS is so low that it just takes forever to get stuff dead.

I figured we wouldn't have a problem, really, since I'd never seen any mention anywhere of a berserk timer. But then we finally got a (mostly) clean attempt, got Shadron down and had Sarth to like 15% and he starts spamming Pyrobuffet on everyone. No mention of berserk on Wowhead or Wowwiki, aside from Sarth spamming it on anyone that gets off his island. Is this normal, and we just need to either drop a tank or bring better DPS?

Can someone post a 10man Sarth +3 WWS from post-patch?

This is ours from tonight 1/25, 2 Healers 3 Tanks. Same setup we have used before for the most part. We have done it with 2 aff locks and with a hunter in there for DPS as those spots are pretty flexible.

This WWS is now fixed and shows the correct Data

Wow Web Stats

this vid is a kill last week from lock POV (me).
Sarth3D10m.avi - FileFront.com

This is our first Kill from our DK add tank POV.
Sartharion with 3 Drakes - 10 Man Version - FileFront.com

This may not be appropriate for this thread but I didn't want to start a new one just for this, but I was wondering if someone could write a quick write-up for raid comp/strategies for 2 drakes on heroic and which drakes to keep alive, for a pretty casual guild starting to do some harder content. Thanks

It was linked earlier in this thread, but Sartharion3D - StratsFu is the guide that put a smile on my guild's face. It's for 3 drakes, but basically:

It will tell you everything you need to know about 2 drakes, just ignore the bits about Shadron and his acolyte's abilities.

I assume you mean during breaths. Theres not much you can do personally, just time your Barkskin/SI/Fire pots properly. Other than that you're at the mercy of your healers using life saving CDs on you and your DPS preventing the danger phase (Vesperon lands - > Shadron dies) from dragging on too long.

We've previously tried with 3/3 setup but reading here I think tonight I'm going to try with 2 healers instead, paladin and priest. Pre-patch we were getting Tenebron down reliably before he spawned the second set of whelps so with an extra DPS should hopefully be able to get him down very shortly after Shadron lands and then Shadron to low before Vesperon. Also going to try what was mentioned here of sending melee down to kill Shadron add just as Vesperon is landing, then the Vesperon acolyte should spawn as they just about finish off Shadron's and then they nuke that down which should hopefully mean only 1 killer breath, then nuke Shadron the rest of the way down ignoring disciples. Once his fire buff is down and his add killed thats pretty much game over, nothing else really dangerous.


edit:
@Melbuframa: Isn't that a 1 drake kill?

Or it could be split over two logs, something weird is going on though.

@Vaccine

Yeah I was talking about the breaths.

We're attempting a 3 tank 2 healer set-up next week

Feral Druid (me) on Sarth
DK on adds
Warrior on drakes

Pali heals
Priest / Druid heals

Hunter
DK
Warrior
Mage
Ret Pali

If we take the druid as a healer and lose GS, I don't think we'll have enough life saving cooldowns to make it through.. But he is a more consistent healer.

Thoughts?

Also, with the 2 tank set-up, wouldnt a dps have to be tanking most of the fight anyway?

I've done it a couple of times pre-patch with 2 tanks, and almost did it yesterday before someone had to leave, but we did manage to kill Shadron or almost kill him a couple of times, but then someone screwed up and we wiped. Basically I tank everything except Sartharion. This is easiest with a DK because you can target DnD and that means less moving around. If a healer has aggro they step onto my DnD which I put on the tail of the Drakes and it picks them up after a couple of ticks, or sometimes I just taunt and DC or use Death Grip.

Well you get 3 there, Hand of Sac from both pallies and your own combo. You could try and get the hunter to bring a pet with Roar of Sacrifice - Spell - World of Warcraft but from my own efforts to do so it seems to be an unpopular choice.

Post 3.0.8, lava strike seems to hit its damage cap on raid targets more consistently. I also see a higher top damage figure from my WWS results.

Anyone else seeing stats similar to this?


pre 3.0.8 -- 22 attempts ending with a 2-drake fight
Wow Web Stats

post 3.0.8 -- 23 attemtps, all 3 drakes
Wow Web Stats

Max damage for lava strike pre 3.0.8 gets into five digit range, capping at ~12.6k on a player. After 3.0.8 damage caps at 13.5k

Pre 3.0.8, not everyone got clocked by lava strike at its max value - quite a few raid members never took a hit over 7k. The damage profile for post 3.0.8 shows every member in the raid taking five digit damage, with a few common high marks recorded.

This only looks at high water marks. It can be argued that we ate some bad RNG over our attempts post 3.0.8 in terms of more people experiencing a full lava strike hit. Unfortunately, that can't account for the following numbers:


pre: 22 tries, 1358 hits, 46 misses
average: 4,736
total: 6,432,746 damage

post: 23 tries, 1239 hits, 46 misses
average: 6,423
total: 7,958,990 damage (much higher damage on fewer strikes)


We had fewer inbound strikes but took significantly more damage. Lots of cases where Vesperon would land, someone would trigger Twilight Torment once and instantly suicide. (I suspect it was them taking a lava strike followed by one or more twilight torment procs.)

Twilight Torment is up full-time on your entire raid now. That increases Lava Strike damage by 75%. Before 3.0.8, it used to "flicker" - every time someone triggered Twilight Torment the debuff would fade. So now 100% of your Lava Strikes are increased by 75% damage (as long as Vesperon's Disciple is spawned in the Twilight Realm) as opposed to a very small fraction.


Incidentally, we found this to be quite a lot of added raid damage/gib factor if you're ignoring portals until Shadron is dead - a 12k lava strike along with only one or two large ticks of Twilight Torment is enough to flat out kill low HP players.

We got our twilight vanquisher (25-man) titles yesterday, so I'll give an overview of the strategy we used. I was tanking things so my post will be focused on the tanking aspects.

First of all, we used 4 tanks. A druid with 46k health pre-debuff was tanking Sartharion. A warrior with 40k health pre-debuff tanked Tenebron (first drake) and Vesperon (third drake). A death knight (me) with 38k health pre-debuff tanked Shadron (second drake) and a paladin with 39k health pre-debuff was tanking the fire elementals and whelps.

The feral picked Sartharion up, pulling him to the bottom-right side of the platform, then moving to the bottom-left side, so his right side was facing the raid and his tail was nowhere near us.

When Tenebron landed the warrior kited him to the right side of the platform, where Vesperon would eventually land and tanked him there. While waiting for Shadron to land, the paladin tank and I picked up adds. He tried to taunt any I had on me off before Shadron landed, but I'd tend to have a few of them on me, in addition to Shadron. DPS stayed on Tenebron, with the goal of having him dead ideally before Shadron landed, but if not shortly after. Shadron landing seemed to coincide almost exactly with the whelps from Tenebron's twilight zone spawning, so as soon as Shadron landed we gathered up all the adds (flames and whelps) and AoEd them on top of Shadron. As soon as the AoE was done we used heroism heroism to try to do as much damage to Shadron as possible before Vesperon landed.

We had a cycle of "oh crap" buttons being used on the main tank while he was taking massive breaths, I believe we typically used 4 of them, barkskin once, priest cooldowns twice, and a paladin cooldown once, AFAIK.

Most of our wipes happened due to Sartharion tank death during the Shadron + Vesperon phase, but a fair number were also from healers getting killed by adds, or too much DPS death to adds or something else.

Once Shadron died, it was very easy. We came close to killing him once with at least 1/3 of the raid dead, but since we killed Shadron we were past the difficult phase.

After Shadron died, the Shadron tank (me) took the portal to the twilight zone and tanked the two disciples there, and I was joined by a bunch of DPS. The disciples hit so weakly that at one point I tanked one for 15s with no heals at all, so we had an enhance shaman heal anybody in the twilight zone who needed heals. We also tried to time the deaths of the disciples in the twilight zone so that we weren't in danger of popping out during a lava wave. Once we came out of the twilight zone we aoe'd down the accumulated adds on the add tank and then DPSed Vesperon until the next twilight portal.

Once vesperon died it was ez-mode.