I did some theorycrafting this weekend trying to determine which class is best fit to tank Sarth's breaths. I tried to compile all information available in this post, 10&25man values, tank -%dmg modifiers, cooldown -%dmg, resistance -%dmg etc and packed it all up in a spreadsheet. It was ment for personal use at first so you may find it a little messy, I'm not expert at writing spreadsheets but I thought I'd share it anyway...
On a side note, I m not entirely sure how will of the necropolis exactly works. This talent looks wonderful for Sartharion's breaths. It is also a bit tricky to me, what's the effect of a pw:shield on a DK tank? Could it actually hurt him by avoiding wotn's -15%? When does the server decides whether wotm apply or not? Anyway I assumed it doesn't apply on an anti-magic shelled tank. For other cases, since it depends on the tank's health and the incoming breath, I considered both scenarios with and without wotn's dmg reduction effect.
I would strongly recommend anyone that's struggling with the 25 man version to take 3 tanks, 3 healers, 4 dps and go work on the 10 man. If you can do that one, and can then find 3 vaguelly competant healers and some dps to fill the remaining spots you're laughing.
The DPS requirement on the 25man is so much lower, mainly due to the fact you don't need to stack a raid for synergy as you'll normally have one of every class present.
For the ten man, we run a comp of (don't laugh)
Prot warrior - Drakes
Feral druid - Sarth
Unholy DK - Adds (It's my offspec, so we decided having me do the monkeys job was the best idea)
Elemental Shaman
Hunter
Mage
Retadin
Resto Druid
Holy Priest
Holy Paladin
More or less no synergy with the dps comp as we take a group of people we know, so we go with two waves of whelps, then just ignore all portals and kill both Shadron and Vesperon then clear up the disciples.
It took us 5-6 nights (at 3hrs a night) to learn the fight and get a first kill (probably a lot more than most, due to the lack of synergy meaning we had to learn it with double whelp waves). However it took us about 1hr30 to learn and kill it 25 man last night.
Having people that know the fight inside out from the 10 man version really helps, as you only have 7 or 8 key roles to fill, and the rest are just dps or raid healing filler. I'd actually say the 10 man version is markedly harder, due to the fact you can't lose anyone without it being a wipe and the longer survival time needed (due to lower dps) during the dangerous period.
If the gear of your group is good enough and you stack buffs properly, you should always manage to kill Tenebron before he can spawn a second set of whelps (without Heroism/Bloodlust). Once Tenebron is dead your tank can reposition Shadron to Vesperons landing spot while dps clears the adds, then pop your Heroism/Bloodlust and kill Shadron. Once Shadron is almost dead one of the caster hybrids (Moonkin/ele Shaman) starts to help out on healing.
So when you actually need it you'll have the 3rd healer. Seems to be one of many advantages of doing this with casters instead of melee.
I know, as I said sometimes we do sometimes not (always without heroism) but we always down the boss
so I don't have any problem there :P
So just a fire resist totem and a +50 FR flask will knock 10% resists off the table, and give you a long-term average resist of 30%. Beyond that, it will take a bit of enchants/gear to go further, but each 10% that is resisted is up to 6k damage avoided in the 25 man, thus worth the loss of quite a bit of stamina in terms of breath survival. Obviously the tradeoff still exists with making sure you don't end up hammered too hard by the melee.
This does not match what I've seen, even if I take into account that someone posted that damage reducing mods, like Defensive Stance, don't come into play until after the resistance.
That's a 6.11% resistance (and I see multiple of those in the table). Yes, that's after damage reducing buffs, but if you take those away, the resistance % goes DOWN, not UP.
The only thing I can think of is that the 100% Shadron buff is also after resistances (since it's a debuff on you rather than a buff on Sartharion). If I take away a 100% buff and also take away some damage reduction buffs, that number looks a lot like 10%.
Unfortunately we still haven't managed the 25 man 3D kill. Apart from the usual voidzone/flamewall deaths we still had some issues with the portals. When Vesperon landed we went in portal and killed shadron acolyte followed by vesperon acolyte. The shadron acolyte however was respawning about 5 seconds after we killed it. Is it on fixed timer or 45~ second after he got killed?
The acolytes spawn on a fixed timer. The timer is set so that the Shadron Acolyte will spawn shortly (5-10 seconds I think) after the Vesperon Acolyte. My recommendation would be to DPS the Shadron Acolyte down to 20% and then wait for the respawn announcement (An acolyte of Shadron appears in the shadows or something) then fininish killing it. Or, if you go into the portal with both acolytes alive, kill Vesperon's first then Shadron's.
Originally Posted by Tel
I would strongly recommend anyone that's struggling with the 25 man version to take 3 tanks, 3 healers, 4 dps and go work on the 10 man. If you can do that one, and can then find 3 vaguelly competant healers and some dps to fill the remaining spots you're laughing.
The 10-man is arguably more difficult than the 25-man. Practicing on the 10-man will prepare a raid for the 25-man version.
But my general recommendation for anyone having difficulty with the 25-man is to do the fight over and over again. Repetition will help people learn to avoid flame waves and void zones, help train the elemental/whelp tank on picking up the adds, and let the healers/tanks get into a rhythm with the breath saves. Communication and a rotation set up beforehand will also help with the tanks and the tank healers. It's not a one-night learning event - but you can always drop down to two drakes on the last attempt of the week and kill them.
But my general recommendation for anyone having difficulty with the 25-man is to do the fight over and over again. Repetition will help people learn to avoid flame waves and void zones, help train the elemental/whelp tank on picking up the adds, and let the healers/tanks get into a rhythm with the breath saves. Communication and a rotation set up beforehand will also help with the tanks and the tank healers. It's not a one-night learning event - but you can always drop down to two drakes on the last attempt of the week and kill them.
Agreed. This is what we're doing and our confidence is growing every week. Just a few weeks ago 3 drakes was unimaginable and two seemed almost impossible. Last week we felt we were just a tiny bit short of being able to do it. and two drakes was easymode, something to do when we were burned out from Sart+3d tries. Some of the difference is another shower of nax25+maly gear on the raid that we get each week, but most of it is just doing the fight enough that stupid deaths are minimized, the adds get tanked, there is less running and more dps time, etc.
Pre 3.0.8: DK tank on sarth, paladin on fire elementals, warrior tank on twilight drakes. DK tank was still getting used to tanking Sarth. Would occasionally wipe us because of a ~30-40k breath (he has 30k unbuffed but the -25% health debuff really hurts). DPS was bad, people couldn't dodge flames/voids. A lot of new people that never did sartharion before, people getting used to it. Was in this situation for about 2 or 3 weeks, couldn't get steady healers to be on for this (we attempted this on off-raid days). The new healers would get hit by flames, by voids, and when they didn't we just couldn't kill tenebron fast enough. The MT would just run out of CDs and die.
Post 3.0.8: DK tank on sarth, paladin on twilight drakes, and warrior tank on hatchlings. Healers are used to dodging flames, we had two holy priests on the DK MT. When the DK runs out of CDs (not sure which ones, but they allow him to tank 1 or 2 flame breaths while shadron's disciple is up), one priest uses guardian spirit survive through one flame breath, and then the other priest does the same. Once the two guardian spirits are exhausted, if we haven't downed Shadron's disciple by then, a paladin comes and blessing of sacrifices the tank and then bubbles. If shadron's disciple still is not down (we have about 3 or 4 paladins that can do this) the MT's CDs are just about back up and we can repeat this cycle endlessly until shadron's disciple is down.
The real problem for us now is killing shadron fast enough so that we dont die from the thorns debuff from Vesperon's disciple. I have concluded that post 3.0.8, because of the new buffs to DKs as well as our new coordination, the breaths from a buffed Sartharion is no longer an issue. The new issue is DPSing vesperon down ASAP so we minimize the amount of time we have to deal with his disciple.
It seems that, post 3.0.8, it is no longer "Down tenebron and after that it's smooth sailing". It seems now that vesperon is an issue, does anyone know if they buffed his disciple? Also, the new lava strikes hit VERY hard.
This does not match what I've seen, even if I take into account that someone posted that damage reducing mods, like Defensive Stance, don't come into play until after the resistance.
That's a 6.11% resistance (and I see multiple of those in the table). Yes, that's after damage reducing buffs, but if you take those away, the resistance % goes DOWN, not UP.
The only thing I can think of is that the 100% Shadron buff is also after resistances (since it's a debuff on you rather than a buff on Sartharion). If I take away a 100% buff and also take away some damage reduction buffs, that number looks a lot like 10%.
I wonder if Twilight Torment works the same way.
Anything that modifies the damage dealt will affect both the taken and resisted amounts. In this fight, that means the 50% buff from Gift of Twilight.
Anything that modifies damage taken applies only to the unresisted portion of damage. The exception is resilience - it modifies incoming periodic damage before the resist check, but of course does not apply to this fight (unless of course you like tanking in magma).
Working backwards, take the resist of 2100, assume it was a 10% resist, meaning the incoming breath damage was 21000. Divide by 1.5 (Gift of Twilight, a buff on Sartharion) to get a base breath damage of 14000.
For damage taken, take the base damage, multiply by 0.9 (the 10% partial resist), 1.5 (Gift of Twilight), 2 (Power of Shadron), 0.88 (Protector of the Pack), and 0.97 (Blessing of Sanctuary). It's clear that Twilight Torment was not yet up. This yields 32266 damage.
Here are my experiences in Sarth3d:
The real problem for us now is killing shadron fast enough so that we dont die from the thorns debuff from Vesperon's disciple. I have concluded that post 3.0.8, because of the new buffs to DKs as well as our new coordination, the breaths from a buffed Sartharion is no longer an issue. The new issue is DPSing vesperon down ASAP so we minimize the amount of time we have to deal with his disciple.
It seems that, post 3.0.8, it is no longer "Down tenebron and after that it's smooth sailing". It seems now that vesperon is an issue, does anyone know if they buffed his disciple? Also, the new lava strikes hit VERY hard.
I don't believe lava strike was changed at all. Due to the change in twilight torment, however, the debuff on the Raid which causes a part of your damage to be reflected, will be up constantly as long as the Vesperon akolyte is alive. The same debuff causes an increase in fire damage taken of 75% - so lava strikes will be hitting quite a bit harder than without the debuff. If you are struggling with raidhealing, have your paladins skill divine guardian and have them pop their bubbles one after another during the critical phase (i.e. as long as Vesperon and Shadron are both up). This will cause your raid to take 30% less damage for 12 seconds for each palading doing that. If you find this is still not sufficient for downing shadron, have your DPS (plus a raidhealer or two and an off-tank) take portals as soon as Vesperon lands and kill the vesperon akolyte. Ignore the Shadron akolyte untill Shadron is dead, then proceed to kill Vesperon, then his Akolyte, and lastly knock down Satharion.
Once Shadron is dead and the 100% fire debuff is removed from the equation, neither Satharions flame breaths nor the lava strikes should be life threatening. However, your DPS may kill themselves due to reflected damage, so you should caution them to take it easy once they drop below 50% health.
Originally Posted by Apfelkäse
So next week we will try this with a melee group consisting of 2 tanks, 2.5 healers and 5.5 DPS. We will instantly nuke the fire ellies when they come up. They die so fast single targetted so it's no problem at all, the DK has 2 taunts and the warrior has another taunt, so healers should be fine.
As has been mentioned before in this thread, the fight is primarily about control. While the setup you are planning has been used successfully before, be aware that the DPS gain you will be getting comes at the expense of quite a bit of control. I would suggest having the whelpling/elementals tank spec and gear some sort of mix between survival and dps, otherwise you'll run the risk of losing him quite often.
I previously tanked Sath with Unholy Spec before ( 5% less magic dmg, 100% AMS, AMZ ) but I had to begin rotation when Shadron landed. That put me into the situation of having CDs when vesperon summons his acrolyte.
Last night I switched to the spec provided by Apfelkäse using WotN.
IMHO this is currently THE spec to tank Satharion ( You may change some points but keep WotN LichBorn and Shadow of Death )
Position:
This can be different to every raid - we decided to tank him at the front left corner, head to the left.
The tank only has to move at one wave for about 3y and all adds can be attacked directly after spawn.
Combat:
Raid View:
Slow DPS on Sartharion
Flame elementals which aggro healers are ignored - they hit for 1-2k if not enraged. If someone got more than 2 adds he tells the pala in vent who taunts them. If DPS got adds they can run into the paladin's consecration.
One hunter to dispel enraged adds.
Lava Wave
Tenebron lands
DPS tenebron ( no bloodlust )
Lava Wave
Tenebron should be between 10-40%. Pop bloodlust now!
Shadron lands
The last % of tenebron get burned down very fast.
All adds ( dragonkin & fire elementals ) are now pulled into shadron and the dps aoe adds + shadron. Classes which can't aoe just dps on shadron.
Never ever freeze the aoe pack! The melees will instantly die.
Vesperon lands and should be catched by a tank
Ignore Vesperon and burn shadron.
When Vesperon summons his acrolyte Shadron should be at about 20%.
The adds are ignored and shadron is burned down. If the hp are below 10k - take a pot/stone or stop dps until you're healed
If Shadron is down everything gets easier
All dps should take the twilight portal now ( Tank should be an off-platewearer ) + 1 healer
Burn down both acolytes then dps vesperon
If the acolyte spawns again - take the Twilight Portal and kill him again
The Lava Breaths do 10k-15k now ( WotN proccs in here now )
Shadron summons his acrolyte
Lava Breath do 17-23k now
Sartharion is immune to any dmg now. As dk I use as many blood runes as I can to retain the +10% parry buff on me. I use Death & Decay and Blood Tap, but Pestilence is also possible.
Enjoy the show to the left
Vesperon lands
/wave vesperon
Vesperon summons his acolyte.
Here comes the critical phase:
As a Blood DK I have 3 CDs to use:
AMS ( 5-7k hits on me )
IBF ( 14-17k hits ) ( sometimes IBF is up long enough for 2 breath )
VB + HP trinket ( hits for 30-35k )
You need help from outside here if shadron is still alive. Power Suppression, Guardian Spirit will do the job.
AMS should be available again
It usually took me 2, max 3 CDs to get through this phase until shadron was down.
If shadron is down - Sartharion's breath does 10-15k dmg again - nothing to fear about. I begin using my melee CDs here to help the healers.
Once vesperon is down Sath begins hitting very hard. I chain used IBF, VB, HP trinket + Dodge trinket until he is down.
Hope this "short" description helps a few people to kill him
Last edited by rovervr : 02/03/09 at 10:33 AM.
Reason: beautified :D
Just wanted to say a big thanks to all the posters and info here- we got our first kill last night.
We used the 4 tank setup: We found it was nice to not have to drag Shad from the S side of Island to the N side for Vesp landing.
Also for us popping the heroism right after the first firewave works well - as everyone is setup and ready to DPS like crazy - whereas later in the fight with multiple drakes up and a lot more going on we didn't seem to be getting quite the same punch out of Hero. we are also basically ready to start DPS on Shad within a couple seconds of him landing.
For those working on a melee-focused 10 man kill (with all 3 drakes up of course), I thought I'd relay a few things we learned getting our kill.
We started on Friday using 2-3 tanks (Prot Warrior, Feral, Blood DK) and 2 healers (Holy Paladin & Priest). DPS was a Survival Hunter, Ret Paladin, Enhancement Shaman, Fury Warrior, and Mutilate Rogue. The DK started out in DPS gear tanking all the small adds but kept getting gibbed by whelps because his damage increased at the same time as the healers were most loaded (Tenebron & Shadron up). He then switched to tanking gear, but it didn't seem like a huge improvement, and our DPS was much lower, so we went back to him wearing DPS gear. The Holy Paladin put up Righteous Fury and was standing near the Prot Warrior drake tank, who would pull all the adds off her. By the end of the night, we had made significant progress, getting Shadron down a few times, then wiping while trying to stabilize and kill the Acolytes.
We came back last night, replacing the DK with a Resto Shaman. Again we held our Bloodlust for when Shadron landed, using 2 minute cooldowns on Tenebron. Whelps were not individually targeted, instead they were AOE'd while we DPS'd Shadron. I believe Tenebron was at 10% when Shadron landed and died just as he activated. Shadron was around 35% when Vesperon landed. After Shadron died, the Fury Warrior took the portal below to tank the Acolytes, accompanied by the Resto Shaman, myself, the Hunter, and Enhance Shaman. The Ret Pally stayed above to drag Blazes from healers to the Drake tank. After we killed Shadron's Acolyte and Vesperon's first Acolyte, we went back up and *slowly* dps'd Vesperon. We didn't take any more portals while Vesperon was up since the Holy Priest was running low on mana (the Shaman helped heal the MT, and the raid). After Vesperon finally died, the Prot Warrior taunted Sarth off the Feral, who then Innervated the Priest, and tanked Blazes for the remainder of the fight. The Ret Paladin killed off Blazes to make sure that they didn't build up. After that, it was easy, just like everyone says.
Overall, I think we liked the 2 tank/3 healer strategy a lot more for this melee setup, since we could use the plate wearing DPS to offtank, and the extra healer gave us an extra margin of error for healing. The only thing that really is random in this setup, and can make things difficult is the spawn time of whelps. Other than that, I think we all had a blast working on this.
I dreaded doing this achievement with a total melee group but it ended up being quite possibly are best 10 man 3d group yet, mind you there were some pretty significant changes to our group composition. So in that regard it was probably the general approach to the encounter more then anything else.
Before the patch we simply used a full range group with 3 tanks/3 healers while avoiding any portals. Obviously this is a little more difficult due to the twilight torment changes and I don't know if you can really avoid portals using this setup (well, not as successful anyway). This time around we just used 2 tanks and 2 healers, with our elemental shaman switching to full time healing once the third drake landed, and killed all of the drakes like we normally did before taking the portals.
Depending on gear levels and how much synergy your group has it seemed to be so much easier then my past experiences with the encounter. I am fairly confident that under the right circumstances (lava walls, spawns and void zones) we could have had Tenebron down before the whelps even spawned (a few seconds short) and the second drake down before Vesperon landed (again, probably ~10 seconds short). I can't see this being a good option for those who are a little less geared though, as those 10 seconds where both Vesperon and Shadron were alive produced some pretty heavy raid damage.
Although we could have upped our raid DPS with someone who synergizes a bit more then an elemental shaman, the healing he produced during the ~10-20 seconds of combined 'critical' moments during the encounter were quite helpful (Maelstrom proc chains heals are nice as well).
This came up in the Druid thread regarding this, but I still see a couple posts about it here. The tooltip on [Effulgent Skyflare Diamond] is misleading, it doesn't actually reduce spell damage by 2% but increases resistance (seemingly just from items) by 2%. See the effect details on wowhead to confirm.
This came up in the Druid thread regarding this, but I still see a couple posts about it here. The tooltip on [Effulgent Skyflare Diamond] is misleading, it doesn't actually reduce spell damage by 2% but increases resistance (seemingly just from items) by 2%. See the effect details on wowhead to confirm.
Originally Posted by Wowhead
Apply Aura: Mod Base Resistance % (126)
Value: 2
It seems to add a 2% resist to everything (except melee, -everything- would've been 127 if I recall correctly), as your base value. And note that it doesn't add to resist value or anything of the sort, but rather to a solid resist %.
Now, why would they go out of the way and code it under that effect, when the effect "Mod % Dmg Taken" is already built into the game? One theory, so it doesn't stack in a multiplying way with other talents and effects, but remains a true flat 2% reduction, which is probably easier than to hardcode exceptions into the effect to not stack inproperly or cause other effects to malfunction when combined. (Spell deflection + AMZ stacking, anyone?)
Also, if going for the 2 healer, 3 tank strat. How do you position the tank(s) so the pali's beacon can heal 2 tanks and be in range for fire aura?
Paladin stands close enough to MT for aura, beacon the whelps/blaze tank, heal the drake tank. Unless you use a very spaced setup, it's not hard to be in ~30y range of both the drake tank and the MT, at least out of waves. During some waves, they might move out of range, but shouldn't be a big issue. You need a very particular positionning if you want to beacon both the MT and the Drake OT however(due to sarth breaths), which is probably not worth it. Beaconing the add tank and the drake tank is very easy, since the adds should be tanked close to the drakes anyway for random AE, such as whrilwind, divine storm or howling blast.
I'm not sure I'd take a chromatic flask over a 650hp flask however, while the gain might be a tad higher in terms of hp gained over a big breath, it's also random, even after the wotlk resist changes.
Originally Posted by Tel
For the ten man, we run a comp of (don't laugh)
Prot warrior - Drakes
Feral druid - Sarth
Unholy DK - Adds (It's my offspec, so we decided having me do the monkeys job was the best idea)
Elemental Shaman
Hunter
Mage
Retadin
Resto Druid
Holy Priest
Holy Paladin
I'm interested in this setup, we were running a 3heal 3tank setup prepatch, but never could get it down postpatch with it, do you have the retadin spec into divine shield shared stuff(not sure what's the name, 30% raid dmg reduction) so you can actually burn shadron without dieing? What kind of timeline do you manage to get with Tenebron kill, like what kind of % when Shadron lands, we were having issues even DPSing shadron at all before Vesperon would land, which made it really hard.
It seems to add a 2% resist to everything (except melee, -everything- would've been 127 if I recall correctly), as your base value. And note that it doesn't add to resist value or anything of the sort, but rather to a solid resist %.
Now, why would they go out of the way and code it under that effect, when the effect "Mod % Dmg Taken" is already built into the game? One theory, so it doesn't stack in a multiplying way with other talents and effects, but remains a true flat 2% reduction, which is probably easier than to hardcode exceptions into the effect to not stack inproperly or cause other effects to malfunction when combined. (Spell deflection + AMZ stacking, anyone?)
The effect on the paper doll numbers seems to suggest that what it's doing is modifying resists from gear by 2%. People noticed this when their Fire Resist numbers weren't adding up quite right. It does not seem to modify the effects of auras or flasks, or if it does it's not reflected in the paper doll number. It also doesn't have any measurable effect on Holy damage as far as I could tell, but my tests weren't terribly rigorous.
Hey guys, I'm hoping to get some help with our 10 man 3D kill.
We are running 3 tank/2.5 Healer/4.5 DPS. We have Feral on Sarth, DK tanking blazes/whelps, and prot warrior on Drakes. Healing we have Holy Paladin (me) on Sarth tank, Resto Druid on the rest.
The rest of the DPS group is:
DK
2 Warlocks
Survival Hunter
Our DPS seems to be pretty good with almost all of them pulling about 4k DPS. We are consistently getting Tenebron down, and working on Shadron.
Our strategy has been to BL on Tenebron after the first wave, and have an elemental shaman DPS to get him down quickly. After Tenebron is down, the Ele Shaman switches to healing and we AoE adds and move to Shadron. We've gotten Shadron down to 33% on our best attempt.
My question relates to healing the fight. We seem to do pretty good with a couple exceptions: warrior dying to double breaths from the drakes. This doesn't happen much, but it happens. The other thing that seems to get us is when Sarth breaths when I have to move for a lava wave while Shadron/Vesperon are both down. When I have to move for a wave, keeping the sarth tanked topped is pretty tough, so if the breath doesn't kill her a melee hit right after does. Is this just part of the RNG of the fight or do you guys have a method for dealing with this?
Could it be a healer positioning thing? I'm usually standing about max melee range on Sarth's rear leg so I just have to move a couple of steps to avoid each type of wave. I've tried standing where I don't have to move for the mid clear (left side) waves, but have to move all the way across for side clear (right side) waves.
Our Sarth tank is using her cooldowns for these breaths, but even with that mitigation she's still low enough that she dies nearly after a wave. Should I pocket Holy Shock for these occaisions instead of using it for that extra oomph to keep her topped?
I'm not sure I'd take a chromatic flask over a 650hp flask however, while the gain might be a tad higher in terms of hp gained over a big breath, it's also random, even after the wotlk resist changes.
If you can use that flask to get to one of the breakpoints (104, 178, 277, 415) it's very much not random; being able to guarantee that you take at most 90, 80, 70% of the damage is quite strong and much better than a few hundred HP.
I'm interested in this setup, we were running a 3heal 3tank setup prepatch, but never could get it down postpatch with it, do you have the retadin spec into divine shield shared stuff(not sure what's the name, 30% raid dmg reduction) so you can actually burn shadron without dieing? What kind of timeline do you manage to get with Tenebron kill, like what kind of % when Shadron lands, we were having issues even DPSing shadron at all before Vesperon would land, which made it really hard.
We got 2 kills pre 3.0.8 and got our first kill tonight since the patch with a 3 tank/3 healer setup. With a setup like that, I think your only DPS benchmark is Tenebron down before Vesperon lands, especially with the Torment change. 2 whelp waves isn't a problem providing they're controlled; Shadow Priests are excellent for dealing with this. I usually tank the whelps/small adds. When the 1st whelp wave spawns, I drag everything I'm currently tanking close to Tenebron/Shadron and have him Mind Sear the adds down. He can usually have the adds dead before the 2nd whelp wave, and the rest of the DPS can kill Tenebron before the 2nd whelp wave spawns and before Vesperon lands. With Vigilance up on our Sarth DK tank, I can just stand still and taunt spam any new spawning adds to me.
We carried on ignoring portals until after Vesperon had died. Even with the Torment change, we still found it better to carry on ignoring the portals and just heal through it. Just jump down the portal with your drake tank, 1 healer and your DPS to kill off the Acolytes after Vesperon dies.
What we have noticed since the patch, is the drakes landing and if their tank isn't in melee range of them immediately, they turn to the raid, Shadow Breath and continue to stand there targettable, but inactive for a few more seconds. We used Hunter MDs before the patch and it worked fine. We had to have our drake tank shift from Shadron's landing spot to Vesperon's landing spot after Tenebron died. Nothing more than a mild annoyance really, but has anyone else seen this?
I'm a little curious as to the gear requirments to manage this in 10-man. Being part of a guild who only do 10 man content, we only have access to... well, 10 man content gear.
Now, we're currently still struggling a bit with Sarth + 2 as it is. Then again, we've only really given it a proper go with 2 tanks 2 healers. One druid on Sarth and one DK on the rest. Healers being a shaman and a priest.
Now.. is going with 3 tanks, 3 healers "easier" for a guild with good players but well.. 10-man epics?
As we're in (mostly) ilevel 200 epics, we're struggling to even manage to murder Tenebron before we have two whelp spawns. At the moment Tenebron dies perhaps 10 seconds before Vesperon lands, which means we have two whelp spawns which is rather rough to deal with honestly. And that's with only 2 healers and 2 tanks! Looking at the WWS logs for tonights attemtps shows most of our DPS hovering around 2.5-3k DPS. But that's with a heap of adds and whatnot, mind you..
Now, our DPS isn't really that awful, atleast so I thought. For example, we do down Patchwerk in under 3 minutes, but I'm not sure that's a benchmark that's worth anything, honestly.
My question is this: Are we doomed not to make this in our 10-man gear, or is it really more of a skill thing? Or is it a matter of making a few changes in the setup and have at it again?
02/02/09, 8:39 AM
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