Melthu

Unless you get a combat log from someone who entered every portal you won't get any message in the file about an acolyte dying. However, Shadron's acolyte makes Sartharion immune to damage and Vesperon's acolyte provides the Twilight Torment debuff, so you can check for those 2 things to get a rough idea of when the acolytes spawned and died, or at least when their auras took effect. If you only take portals once it's easy to check the logs for this stuff. If you kill each acolyte multiple times it's a little more work to find each stopping and starting point.

Here's where Shadron's acolyte spawned:
20:06'16.678 Sartharion gains Gift of Twilight.

Here's where it was killed (assuming you only killed 1 acolyte):
20:08'44.701 Gingér Blood Boil failed. Sartharion was immune.
20:08'45.294 Sartharion suffers 898 Frost damage from Decan Frost Fever.

Here's where Vesperon's acolyte spawned:
20:07'02.096 Spirit Wolf #1 Twilight Torment hits Spirit Wolf #1 for 2407 Shadow. (1032 Absorbed)

Here's where it was killed (again, assuming you only killed it once):
20:08'53.305 Gingér Twilight Torment hits Gingér for 1789 Shadow. (521 Resisted)

 

Snegel

Well, the only portal we're going through is Vesperons after Vesperon dies.
Tactic is Tene(heroism)->whelps->shadron->Vesp->Vesps acolyte->Sarth(heroism2 for enrage).

But your times seem to fit, so what remains as final question is, after what time does shadrons acolyte despawn?
Here it seems to be ~110s after Shadrons death, respectively ~150s after it spawned. Is it fixed and does it depend on the time it spawned or the time shadron died?

Not necessarily to know, just interesting imo. At least in fact this proves that shadrons acolyte was still alive until 20:08'45 and so the relatively high breaths are explained.
Thanks all.

 

bracul

Just wondering since we never let the shadron acolyte alive after Shadron himself has already died - does the shadron acolyte himself despawn after a certain amount of time?

I mean, for our strategy at the moment it isn't that much important since we are going to kill the add anyway to minimize the amount of healing needed on the Sarth-MT, just curious.

But if it really does despawn after like 2(?) minutes or which numbers may be correct, that would open other possibilites for us.

 

Snegel

After talking to one of our dds I have to admit, me as a healer never went through one of the portals
In fact we're killing both acolytes, shadrons and vesperons, but both at the same time. It was unknown to me that both are in the "same" twilight zone, after thinking about it i don't know why i thought there have to be two of them^^
So when Vesperon dies all dds take the portal and kill both acolytes in the zone, in fact it doesnt make any difference if they despawn at the time oder are killed that lately but I think it's nice to know that they are in the same zone.

This clearly explains everything I asked, thanks one more time to everyone.

 

Mijae

The values on that spreadsheet are outdated. Since then the meta gem has been shown to be broken (or tooltip incorrect) and resist requirements are believed to be higher.

Resistance Mechanics in WotLK - Elitist Jerks

Feral DruidStats spreadsheet
v3.2.0.0.xls - updated 8/4/2009

 

Yaelle

Yesterday I noticed in the 10 man version, that the message "Shadron opens a portal... A Shadron acolyte appears in the twilight" came up multiple times and we definitely did not kill any acolytes until after Vesperon death.
I can only assume that it despawns, if he has to respawn his acolyte. It might be worth while spending a try just to find that out.

 

mox512

Acolytes will not dispawn. If you want get rid of acolytes abilities, you should jump in and kill'em, asap.
So we use strategy:
1. DPS Tenebron don't take any portal till it dead.
2. Shadron landed, Tenebron dead. AOE whelps.
3. DPS Shadron
4. Vesperon landed, First portal Shadron's portal opened.
5. All DPS and 1 healer go to the twilight real finish both acolytes (Shadron and Vesperon).
6. Acolytes dead
7. Finish Shadron quick, Blood Lust, you have to do it before Twilight torment kills you.
8. Shadron dead - breath on MT halved.
9. AOE elems.
10. All DPS and 1 healer jump to the portal, kill 2 acolytes (Shadron and Vesperon).
11. After this the fight is really easy. You have only 1 drake and 1 acolyte spawning in portal. So jump in when the portal is up. And announce waves.
That's all.

 

Yaelle

I think your getting Tenebron an Shadron mixed up mate. Never should a group have to worry about twilight torment on Tenebron.

 

mox512

Yup, your are right. Fixed the post above.

 

tommynt

I truly wonder how all of u handle enraged blazes with caster only setups in 10man 3D?
You never have problems with enraging blazes?
Also I m not too sure about positioning - spread out to minimise moving due to shadow fissure or stick together to have easier time for blaze tank?

In terms of strategy and skill needed the 25 version seems to be way more easy then the 10 man version, after having in a 4 Tank/7 Healer/1 Rogue (what makes all the"problems" just easy) on blazes still enough dps to have shadron at 50% when vesperon lands the encounter is pretty much trivial and therefore only a equipcheck.

In 10 man we ll have a DK (on Sarth)/Warrior/Feral/Mage/Resto Druid/HPaladin/RetPal due to activity and I aint sure how to make a good raidsetup with Synergies with this Setup when having to even include 1 class for dispelling

 

mox512

You mean that you do not take any portal till all 3 blue drakes dead? 0.o

 

sharkee

We're doing S3D-25 for a while now and finally had him down yesterday.. Oooorrrr so we thought.

We went into the twilight zone to finish off both acolytes but got automatically zoned out with 1 add still up but all 3 drakes down and no way to get back to finish off the last one.

This made Sarth immune to all damage and we had no way to counter it but to wipe and try again.

Anyone ever had that problem? And is it a bug or is there something we did wrong?


EDIT: How do you guys have healing sorted on S3D?

 

david0925

A lot of guilds do that because it simplies things and the healing isn't unmanageable. This does require a tank that can take multiple breaths with minimal external cool-downs(feral druid in stamina+FR, or a unholy or blood DK rotating his own cooldowns properly) as well as extensive aoe healing, but especially in a 25 man setting your dps is usually so high that Drakes are dead/close to dead before the next one lands. DPS can also die to random lava strike hitting them while being at half life due to twilight torment, but those are the risks you take for simplifying and shortening fights.

Maniq is my hero

 

mox512

MT - Pala holy, priest holy
OT - Restor Druid + 1/2 Restor Druid
OT - Restor Shaman + 1/2 Restor Druid
Raid - Restor Druids

You see we have a lot of Druids in our setup )

 

◊ vorpalblade

We've done it with a caster group with no enrage dispellers, and while it can present some unique obstacles it's certainly doable, probably easiest using Warrior Elemental/Whelp Tank. During the tenebron burn, your tank just has to deal with it, and between trinketed shield block, shockwave, and TC, your Elemental tank can shave off a substantial amount of damage which ought to be enough to last until Tenebron's death and the subsequent AoE phase. After that, it's a lot less of an issue.. the occasional enraged add can be dispatched pretty quickly, and if you get unlucky with multiple enraged spawns, with a caster heavy group what you lack in enrage dispellers you can usually make up for with solid AoE.

Generally, I (as the elemental tank) tend to try not to call for AoE during the Shadron burn unless we've gotten really unlucky with Elementals repeatedly spawning in the middle of a wave. The short answer to your question is if you can't dispel enrage, you may need to AoE a bit more frequently, and your tanks need to have a quick trigger finger with their survival cooldowns, but the fight is otherwise not substantially different (The group in this case was DK MT / Prot Warr x 2 / Holy Pally / Tree / Elem Shaman / Mage / Lock x 2 / SPriest).

We had originally tried the DK on Elementals under the assumption that he'd be able to kill most of them himself before they became a problem, and while that was sometimes the case the incoming damage on him from enraged adds made the two-healer setup unsustainable once his cooldowns were gone. Putting the DK back on Sarth while warrior tanking the adds was the smarter combination.

 

UnholY_Prince

You can also significantly reduce the need to AoE outside of after Tenebron dies and dealing with the whelps through smart use of abilities. We use a DK to tank the adds, and after the first wave of whelps spawns, he brings the entire pile on top of Tenebron/Shadron and Pestilences off of the current Drake target. This allows him to spread Ebon Plague and his diseases for increased Aoe threat, but more importantly allows him to spread the Spriests' Devouring Plague onto every add. Coupled with being in melee range for Conc, Divine Storm, and Whirlwind, you're looking at a lot of auxiliary damage. Doing this the entire fight ensures that you only really need a full AoE burn period once.

 

supplicium

I can only think of one time while doing a caster stacked 10man where our DK whelp/elemental tank had problems and that was do to some very very bad luck involving double whelp hatchings, bad drake positioning and massive amounts of enraged elementals.

I think the best thing to do is pop cooldowns and encourage aoe a bit more. The HP of those mobs in 10man is fairly small and the DK tank, as stated above does do a lot of the damage to those elementals essentially solving his own problems

 

Fenzter

Does anyone know what the "cooldown" on Tenebron's eggs are? Part of the DPS check is getting Tenebron down before the second wave of eggs. I've search multiple sources and cannot find a timer. Any ideas?

 

Valerys

We usually put a rogue with anaesthetic poison on enraged elementals to dispel their enrage. That seems to work for us and keeps the add tank damage down (and any damage on other people from aggroed adds).

 

Sparkyman

it's quite random as of our experience. Doing 10man we sometimes had 2 waves with heroism on Tenebron and sometimes 1 wave w/o it (same group of course).

 

footloop

I haven't timed it precisely, but they seem to coincide roughly with the 2nd and 3rd drakes landing (which would make it a 45s timer, correct?). Although since he hatches them a little before they come out, you have to kill him probably ~20s before then to avoid the wave entirely.

 

Cranberry

I jumped into a flame tornado after the fight for lulz the other night, and ended up getting punted halfway across the zone by this spell - Burning Winds - Spell - World of Warcraft. I haven't been able to test it yet, but can you drag elementals into the cyclones and kill them?

 

Thairne

Interesting... If this works no DPS would be needed on elementals. With proper timing the tank can avoid Flame Walls too... But somehow I doubt that a fire based spell really hurts fire elementals. I think that description is a remnant of some earlier incarnation of the fight.

 

falzitro

We did S3D 10man yesterday and we used a voidwalker to tank sartharion until Shadron was dead. From there we had our elemental/whelp tank taunt him and from there on is was nothing special.

Setup was:
Warrior, drakes
DK, whelps/elementals
Warlock, vw tank

Priest, disc healing vw (me)
Druid, resto
Shaman, resto dps until Tenebron is dead.

Moonkin
Warlock
Paladin, ret
Priest, shadow

The ability to avoid breath dmg by the voidwalker is why its used, with a passive 80% reduction + healthfunel 30% it will never be close to a death from breaths. The vw on the other hand is not that smart so it can be moved away from tsnuamis. But there is an exploit in this (at least I think it should be classified as one) and that is that you can place your void outside the tsunamis and sartharion wont do anything to the raid about it. It certainly doesn't make the encounter extremely easy but it does remove the 1shot of tanks. With a DK on sartharion and proper DPS I would say that is a better way of handling the encounter.

Our warlock was running with full PVE gear and his void reached 51k health buffed. This is enough for the 10man and there is no need for more HP. The warlock is producing very low amounts of dmg but he is doing more on Tenebron then a tank tanking sartharion would do so you do gain DPS if you have problems with getting a 2nd hatch of whelps.

 

sovelis41

No.

You pay for the whole chair, but you only need the edge.