Jebraltar

You either have everyone stay up and dps through Twilight Torment, or you have everyone drop down and kill Vesperon's add when it spawns. It's entirely up to your own guild. We keep everyone up top because it's less of logistical hassle, and we kept losing people to Shadow Realm damage downstairs or tanks to damage upstairs when we split our healing for the shadow realm.

Your DPS needs to watch their HP, though, and either stop DPS or switch to AOE skills when they hit about 6k HP so they can get healed before TT crits and kills them.

 

wayth

Basically, your dps needs to just pay attention. If they're killing themselves, it's their fault. They need to slow down and wait for a heal. DPS is nowhere near as important as survivability on Sarth+3 so they need to stow the egos and make sure they stay alive.

Ideally you'll have the dps to have Shadron either dead or close to it before Vesperon lands so you only have to worry about a single drake while torment is active.

Our strategy was to use bloodlust on Tenebron and burn him down asap, then kill the whelps. This gave us maximum time on Shadron before torment started and we managed to have Shadron down to about 15% when Vesperon landed. By the time torment was active, we really only had the single drake to worry about which makes it much more manageable.

Once Shadron is down, you can have people take portals to kill the acolyte, but in our experience it was simpler and faster to kill Vesperon and then take out the acolyte afterwards.

 

krilz

Thanks, guys, it helps tremendously knowing that it's just us playing badly, not having a bad strategy, because that we can just practice on.
Won't TT kill people off anyway if they start to AE adds with the debuff up?

 

Akj

Twilight Torment does not proc off aoe spells like rain of fire, blizzard & volley and only procs on the initial cast of spells like seed of corruption.

http://johngaltwow.net

 

Rhaegal

The only strategy tweak I would suggest is moving your Bloodlust a little earlier as wayth hinted at. If you Bloodlust as soon as your drake tank solidly has Tenebron, your DPS should be able to switch to Shadron earlier. You'll get more DPS out of the group in general simply because you won't have as much Bloodlust time wasted running between Tenebron and whelps and Shadron (depending, of course, on waves, void zones, and how well your add tank dragged the whelps over to the drakes). The Bloodlust is only wasted if you kill Tenebron and all the whelps before Shadron lands and you're all sitting around waiting, but it doesn't sound like that would be the case for your group.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

 

Szynszyla

Maybe tweak it a bit more, since dps requirements to kill tenebron are very low you should be able to kill him in 45sec with bad 1st wave without bloodlust. If you have trouble, run WWS and cut parses after tenebron dies and check dpsers DPS uptime. Anything below 80-85% is very bad. So after you kill tenebron without bloodlust, go for shadron and BL straight after 3rd wave. Don't reposition shadron yet, once BL expire, you move him to other side if you didn't kill him yet while everyone finish the packs leaving you shadron dead or very low HP while vesperon is landing. We also don't aoe anything either, we are just using SoC / Living bombs and DK pestilance to kill the whelps/blazes while we move from drake to drake. Nobody put focus on blazes/whelps for the entire encounter. If nothing bad happens, we are able to clear each drake before next, get into portal after shadron dies, clear both acolytes and don't have torment for more than 20-25% of vesperon HP. We always run 3 tanks, warrior on whelps/blazes and 5-7 healers.

 

Tel

You're talking about the 25 man, but I believe he's referring to the 10 man, which is considerably tougher in terms of DPS benchmarks and control. In the 25 man version you can almost just zerg down each drake before the next.

 

Buka

...if you decked out in T7.25 (i.e. - farming Naxx&Co for months). It's not so easy for guilds in T7.10/heroics or not mini-maxed raids.

 

jminhas

Not trying to bash druids (Seeing as I am one) but during my experiences
I have found that the DK tank, not the feral, is the optimal sarth tank for 3D,
due to the CDs available at the disposal of the DK, whereas all we have is survival instincts,
barkskin, and (if you have them) fire absorbing pots.

The more and more I play a feral tank, the more and more I want to switch resto.

 

Ayreon

It indeed was insane but we found out it was a necessary thing to do in order to get rid of the huge raid damage. This was back in December though, before the Twilight Torment change. Nowadays, I wouldn't recommend it.

 

Lucinde

If anything, twilight torment now hurts more than it did in december. If there would be any benefit to killing Vesperon before Shadron it would now be bigger than it was in december.

I can see a 3-3-4 setup not clearing tenebron + adds before vesperon lands, so in that case it doesn't really matter which one you kill first - it depends a bit on what your biggest problem is. The problem I can see with getting Vesperon first is that it still doesn't get rid of twilight torment and, with that, the huge raid damage tank 1-shots.

Killing Shadron removes the fire debuff instantly and as such removes the tank 1-shots. You can then do whatever you want; we choose to just burn Vesperon and leave adds until the end. That said, it depends on what your problems are. If you use a VW or a massive HP druid to take Sarth, I can see the benefit of killing Vesperon first.

Of course this is all about the 10-men. If a guild can't get Shadron to 30-40% before Vesperon lands with this many weeks of free Naxx epics behind them, they should re-evaluate their goals and/or roster.

 

Larka

Havnt tried this, but kinda curious about it.

How about offtank all and nuke sartharion down before he gets immune from the portal-adds.

you would have roughly 85 seconds to kill him. say you bring 2 tanks 1 healer and 7 dps, the average dps they need to dish out would be 5k. So its doable for sure, BUT would it be considered an exploit since I guess its not the way it was designed or would it simply be an easier way to do it once you have the gear for it?

 

RootBreaker

There's a berserk that's triggered by doing this.

 

Celebrindal

If you read the thread you would have known this by now, but the adds enrage when he gets low and start oneshotting tanks, and that 5k dps is quite hard to average over 7dps in a 10man even before movement. It's also probably before the 25% hp buff he gets from leaving adds alive?

Basically if you had the gear to burn him in 85sec he would be just as much of a pushover doing it the normal way.

 

TolstoyMalle

Well, hi to everyone!

I'm a long time reader, ah well you know the drill....

Anyway since EJ and this thread in particular was a great help I figured I might share our experience with this encounter on non-heroic mode.

We are a competitive subgroup of 10-12 people in a rather casual guild. Once Sarth3d was the only achievement left for the 310% mount we figured we give it a shot. However since we are no that many we actually didn't have much choice when it came to group setup. This is how we actually got it done:

Voidwalker (75k HP) on Sarth
Warrior on Drakes
Paladin on Whelps and Blazes

Blood DK
Warlock
Fury Warrior
Rogue
Shadowpriest

Resto Druid
Holy Paladin

As you can see this a far from a great raid setup. Especially no Bloodlust/Heroism.

Our strategy was to burn Tenebron down with 5 DPS, which worked out without Bloodlust/Heroism and then clearing all the Whelps/Blazes. Our Shadowpriest switched to Healing after this, as at this point Vesperon had already landed. Since Twilight Torment gave us problems we killed Vesperon first, went into the portal and killed Vesperons Disciple and proceeded from there.

After slowly killing Shadron and its Disciple our Protection Warrior spotted Sarth off the Voidwalker and its basic from there on.

Well to all people out there still trying to beat this encounter on 10 man who don't have the luxury of making a perfect group setup - theres still hope as you can see. However most of us were in BiS or pretty close to it, and it took us 3 whole nights of wiping before actually beating it.

Hope this can be a little help to someone...

So long,
TolstoyMalle

 

Cigaras

Hello everyone,

Done that yesterday, my Voidy was tanking with 60khp (I have gear for up to 80khp but 50k+ is enaugh to survive two melee crits in a row so my dps was a bit higher). We used 3/3/4 setup:

Voidwalker tanking Sarharion
Warior tanking drakes
DK tanking whelps and blazes

Resto Druid healing Voidwalker
Holy Pala healing Warior with Beacon on DK
Resto Shaman dpsing on Tenebron and healing Warior + raid while Vesperon and Shadron is up, swithed to Voidwalker once Vesperon died

Combar Rogue ("missdirecting" Sarhtarion on Voidwalker)
Shadow Priest (was healing inside portals)
Feral Druid (was tanking inside portals)
Moonkin (just dpsing, blowing adds off healers when DK was out of range )
and Me, Demo Warlock, full dps on Tenebron and Health Funnel later

Kill order:
Tenebron -> Whelpings -> Vesperon -> Vesperon's Acolyte -> Shadron -> Shadron's Acolyte -> Sarharion

Well nothing more to add, we chose control over nuke and it worked for us

By the way, a small tip, Improved Leader of the Pack is worth two talents points in fights like these especially if you are doing with 2 healers.

 

Ganjish

I'm trying to find some info on the cooldown rotations for a DK tanking Sarth. I'm currently specced unholy(solely for this fight, frost tank otherwise). I have Anti-Magic Zone as well as Bone Shield avaiable. Basically I find myself not touching my cooldowns until 2nd drake lands. Usually i blow Anti-Magic Shield first breath, Anti-Magic Zone for the second(possibly the third if its quick enough, yes it has happened). Then Icebound Fortitude is the last one I pop since it's not as effective. At this point 3rd drake is landing and my Cds are on cooldown, time for priest/pally saves etc. If someone could post a rotation for my CDs that they have used successfully that would great. If you could post a rotation including when preist/pally should use theirs also that would be awsome.

Thanks in Advance.
Ganjish
<The Right To Arm Bears>
80 Death Knight Tank
Azshara

 

Tel

You shouldn't be using any CDs until the 3rd drake has landed and the disciple has spawned. Personally I use then in the order

AMS, IBF, VB/health trinket, AMS, Army, IBF, VB/Fire Pot /PW:S, AMS, External CD, External CD, IBF, AMS

Or something very similar... If that doesn't give your dps enough time on drakes, then you're screwed anyhow

Also, get rid of your sig, we can see who you are from your profile

 

Crosshairs

I am hoping to verify my healing assignments for this by asking what would you do.

1. Disc Priest
2. Holy Priests
2 Resto Shamans
1. Holy Paladin
1. Resto Druid

1. DK Tank (sarth)
1. Warrior tank (adds/blazes)
1. Prot Pally tanks (drakes).

I am willing to provide what we do currently if it is more beneficial.

 

Morwen

It's apparently been done now -- someone taunts Tenebron just before the berserk and takes off running, and the raid drops Sartharion before Shadron lands or Tenebron comes back to kill everyone.

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

 

Bullshot

Video of the kill: Vimeo has deleted the video, check this post below for an updated URL.

 

lichdawg

After a few weeks trying to nail this fight in 10 man, we finally managed.

These are my notes concerning the fight:

The MT (on sartha) was a druid.
3 healers: a paladin, a druid for the raid , a discipline priest for the MT.
2 warriors tanks: one for the whelps and elementals, on for the drakes.
4 dps: one unholy DK, one rogue, one fury warrior, on shadow priest.

The fight went like this:
Sartha placed in position.
Drake 1 land and the dps are on him right away. MT2 is on the drake.
The MT3 for the adds, routinely moves closer to the MT2 in order for the adds to be killed by collateral damage (mainly aoe from the death knight).

MT2 picks up shadron as soon as it lands and switch to building aggro on it.

Everyone in the raid is self sufficient and knows exactly what to do. There is no need to call voids on the ground, only the wave are called.

Once the first drake is dead, the dps go for shadron and the MT2 move to take on the last drake that is landing at that time.

The MT3 takes the second wave of whelps and brings them closer to the MT2 yet again. The race is on to get rid of all whelps before the shadow debuff kicks in.

When the debuff is on, we go survival mode and the druid cast tranquility after a wave. This allows the dps to go all out and dps down shadron.

When shadron is dead, we get rid of all the adds (debuff is still there so careful) and then the DK and the dps go down the portal to kill the adds. The shadow priest switch to healing the DK and the adds are killed.

The dps groups takes the portal back up and dps the adds and start dps on the last drake, making sure that they do not kill themselves since the debuff will pop back.

When the debuff is back, the dps group goes through the portal again etc.

Once the last drake is dead, the fight is won.

Note:
the dps need ~3400 in sustained damage through the fight and 4K5 to 5K during the burn phase of the first drake.

I hope this helps.

 

Buka

Yeah, and this one was PUG from the various guilds from our server. So, i guess, anyone can do it.

 

Teza

Vimeo deleted the video, but i knew that would happen, so i uploaded it to youtube: Wowraid - Sartharion 10+3D Speed Kill

 

Tzeni

Well, not many single guilds are going to have 4 top-geared fury warriors. So I reckon getting a coalition of guilds is easier in terms of getting the necessary gear and class composition.