Apfelkäse

Not sure where I'm supposed to ask this, but I was wondering if the Spell Deflection Talent for DKs works against the Fire Breath of Sartharion. I know it's random, but still mitigation is mitigation =p

 

Tojara

Spell deflection does work but it also provides problems with Anti Magic shell. Basically if you have AMS up and spell deflection procs it will only take into account of spell deflection.

Regardless, I wouldn't pick up the talent if you're planning on tanking Sartharion. The encounter (while doable, obviously) has quite a few RNG elements and having a chance to live or die doesn't seem like a good investment to me. Rune tap on the other hand is quite excellent as you can pop it after a breath if your healers are on the move (from a flame wall).

 

Xelopheris

Yes and no.

Yes it does work.

But don't take it because it's bugged. If you proc Magic Deflection, it will override your other percentage mitigation abilities (AMS, Bone Shield, IBF).

If you're looking to tank Sarth as a DK, it's pretty easy for Unholies right now. Save Bone shield until Shadron lands. Pop it about 5-10s after he lands (when his disciple appears). After first breath, pop Lichborne/whatever avoidance you have. It should hold until Vesperon. Then you have AMS, IBF, and AMZ to eat the next 3-4 breaths, Sac or GS another. By then, Bone Shield should be up again and Shadron should be dying.

And always make sure to hold an FU after Vesperon lands so you can knock off twilight torment when he's going to breath.

 

Jezz

This was probably the best advice in this thread for us, we were working on it steadily but getting 3 of our paladins to spec into this really pushed us to get the kill.

Thanks a lot Anyone who is struggling during shadron/vesperon use this.

Anyway, just for reference I'll outline how we got the kill although it is nothing groundbreaking.

3 Tanks (DK on the boss, paladin on the adds, warrior on the drakes)
6 Healers (1 druid on the raid, 1 CoH priest on the raid, 1 paladin on MT (beacon on drake tank), 1 paladin on drake tank (beacon on MT), resto shaman on raid/add tank)

Blood lust on Tenebron, depending on luck with waves we would kill it about 5 - 20 after shadron landed. Once vesperon was down paladins started using their rotation of Divine Guardian and used the several cooldowns they have to mitigate it. We learnt the fight with a Warrior and only just got a DK tank in today, it is definitely a good deal easier and would reccomend getting one geared up as soon as possible - especially if you don't have a feral in the guild.

Once Shadron died we had all DPS and 2 healers take the first portal, from then on we had only one melee DPS group and the healers go down each portal. Once we got a stable try with Shadron dead and only a couple in the raid dead it went down easily.

As I said, nothing particularly groundbreaking and not at all suggesting any of it is the optimal way to do it at all.

Thanks for all the help in this thread.

 

Pyros

Better just stop autoattacking, and runestrike him when he breath, since runestrike pretty much will always hit. Not sure why you'd need a FU for either, any spell will do, including bloodboil or icy touch(which with virulence would probably have a higher chance of landing than any o your melee attacks).

The rest of your explanation was pretty much how I do it though, only that I don't get lichborne, I get veteran for more hp and full imp runetap for self healing during walls, the JC dodge trinket is good enough to catch 2breath with boneshield unless I'm really unlucky.

 

Celani

If you're Naxx'ed out, you should have the DPS to do what we just tried, with success. Do not use any cooldowns at all on Tenebron. This is the easy part of the fight. Use bloodlust and all DPS cooldowns on Shadron and watch him crumble. At that point, the fight is very easy as you need only take one portal, your sarth tank is in no danger, and Vesperon is easily killed. From there, the fight is quite simple.

 

Lucinde

As pointed out in an earlier post, it doesn't make a difference whether you use it on Tenebron or Shadron - both will result in (approximately) the same time of death for Shadron.

The only advantage of using bloodlust/heroism on Shadron instead of Tenebron is the hasted healing, whereas using it on Tenebron will give you some room to AoE away the adds and a cleaner playground. I'd argue that it's generally harder to DPS Shadron than it is to DPS Tenebron and therefore you'd get more milage out of using it on Tenebron.

As gear levels improve and guilds can burn Tenebron in 40 seconds *without* heroism/bloodlust, then you'd be totally right to use it on Shadron/Vesperon, but I don't that'll happen before the fight becomes irrelevant for 90% of the raiding guilds.

 

Jezz

As mentioned in the thread, aslong as the drakes are overlapping, you can think of the drakes interms of bloodlust as one mob with 8,367,000 HP. Making the time at which you bloodlust, interms of nuking a drake down, insignificant.

There are good points about bloodlusting on Tenebron and Shadron.

On tenebron, you will definitely get all 25 members bloodlusted, On Shadron, naturally as time passes, it is more likely someone has died.

Bloodlusting on Shadron provides hasted heals which are useful indeed.

We found that bloodlusting on Tenebron meant more DPS was alive and DPS could focus more on DPS as opposed to the other complications that arise with Shadron. It is up to your guild to find which suits you better. Of course, if you are killing Tenebron without bloodlust before Shadron lands, then definitely use it on Shadron - but I find it hard to beleive you can manage that yet.

 

Ulmus

well after feeling like paranoid i decided to register forums and ask about it in this topic.

I am tanking Sartharion in our 3d attempts. The thing i noticed is, whenever a dk dies sartharion targets it (hence turns into raid) for a small time. (My guess: its related with DK zombie thing after dying)

So question is anyone noticed something like that which is actually a bug in my opinion. If this occurs while he is casting firebreath, he unleashs it to tank healers and other people in range.

 

Bula

Are you sure the DK's aren't dying as a result of death gripping sarth and that's why he's turning? Because I've never seen this happen.

 

Blackren

Well, my guild walked in last night to do Sartharion 2D with only 24 people and we ended up one-shotting it on the first time we ever saw it. We were going to be attempting 3D, but with the football game we were short a healer.

My question is about our DPS benchmarking. We killed Tenebron significantly before he even started casting his second "hatch eggs." I'd almost say that we killed him around the time the whelps started appearing, maybe a bit after. I was wondering how far we are off from the DPS Benchmark, and if when we do 3 drakes, we should burn our bloodlust here or save it for Shadron.

 

Ashen

That's pretty much the mark you're aiming for. The idea is that Tenebron is close to dead / dying as Shadron lands (45 seconds in). The whole reason for that is that you're trying to dodge the second hatch eggs.

I would say, at least from your description, you're on the path to meeting that benchmark.

 

Celani

Well certainly both strategies are possible, and you're right, we didn't kill Tenebron before Shadron landed, but it was very, very close.

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Wow Web Stats

Our DPS is good, but we still don't have the Patchwerk 3 minute achievement. Missed it by 2 seconds last week, and yet if we can kill Tenebron within 2.4 seconds of Shadron landing, without using bloodlust, those of you who have done the Make Quick Werk of Him achievement might consider saving the lust for a less stressful Shadron stage.

 

Xelopheris

I definitely hold autoattack and runestrike, but sometimes you get really unlucky and get missed five attacks in a row instead of dodge/parry. Bloodboil is obviously out of the question because of Blade Barrier uptime. And i just refresh icy touch with one rune. I use my FU on a Death Strike to make sure my HP is as high as possible.

 

dukes

The Shadron benchmark is significantly easier to hit if you get lucky with random events, namely the Lava Wave positions and how far Tenebron moves to hatch. If Tenebron doesn't move significantly to hatch, and you get all Lava Waves in the same position, you should be good to kill him easily. If you get waves every other position each time and Tenebron moves a mile and a half to hatch, it can be a pain to get the DPS on him, especially if you're running melee-heavy and casters aren't paying attention to be in the right place to not have to move significantly each wave. It can be a big chunk of DPS lost every time the drake moves due to melee losing contact as the drakes hitbox is so ridiculously small.

This is not meant as a whine, merely an observation: Considering how hard Sartharion3d is supposed to be (effectively the benchmark for how good a guild is at the moment), it's pretty amazing how different two attempts can be dependent on random events. Lava blazes, lava waves, void zone positions, hatching movements and breath timers are all effectively random, although some less so than others (lava waves are random in position, but even that is a 50/50, and on a fixed timer). Blazes are the thing that you feel most as a tank, especially in 10 man (the difference between having to pick up 6 blazes as whelps spawn, while already having 3 blazes on you, and having 2-3 blazes spawn in the whole Tenebron phase is just ridiculous in the 10 man).
I think it's the good kind of randomness mostly though; the kind that makes you pay attention and helps to mix up the fight rather than being so annoyingly random that it could just decide to fuck you over however well you play (see: pre-nerf Shahraz).

 

Celani

Certainly on ours DPS varied widely by the waves; on a few, there was a good 20 seconds of two drakes. On one, we actually killed Tenebron before the eggs hatched. When we went into the portal after Shadron, the eggs were still there, unhatched. Wheels fell off on that one when a sarth healer went down, but a dead Tenebron before hatch will prevent them from ever hatching. The kill was with two favorable waves.

 

Pyros

I usually pop 2 bloodboils after a breath for blade barrier, then keep them until next breath so I can runetap if needed, so yeah I usually bloodboil on breath(and RS). Since BB will usually refresh if you IT right before the first blood runes reset, it lasts until a breath unless you're really unlucky(but then you're not getting a breath for 20+secs so it's not that unlucky).

I could see your point with Death Strike, if it actually worked, but since as long as shadron is up sartharion takes at most like 3dmg crits, death strike provides 0healing(or well 1 but that's not really useful). That is, unless you kill shadron's disciple in the portal before killing shadron, but don't think people ever do this. I was doing that at first too but figured it was pointless until people cleared the add.



As for Sarth turning on DK deaths, I've seen it happen, but it seems to be mostly a non factor, I guess if you're REALLY unlucky he'll finish breathing right at the same time and wipe the raid, but it happened like twice in the maybe 100tries I've tanked, so don't think it's a big factor, especially since he turns for like 1/4 of a sec.

 

Ultimate

So was this a 2 drake kill or 3? And if 2 which 2 drakes did you leave up. If Vesp was killed then the drakes and sarth all had 25% less HP.

 

Knighz

For 10 man we used 3 tanks (warrior/pally/druid) 3 healers (1 holy priest, 1 disc priest, 1 resto shamman) 4 dps (2 mages, 1 shadow priest, 1 boomkin). Basically we stacked caster dps for our first kill.

For 25 man we used 4 tanks (Feral druid was on sarth with some 70 FR gear with stam gems stacked on it, prot warrior on the first and third drake, pally on the second drake, and the other pally on the adds).

 

Ulmus

I'm pretty much sure its not a taunt or deathgrip. As pyros said he turns like 1/4 sec targetting dead DK, than turns back to normal (without i'm taunting back). I've seen it when a DK close to me (like 20-30 yards) died.

 

Lucinde

Care to provide a WWS for that? Tenebron hatches his first set of eggs about 20-25 seconds after he has landed depending on how far he needs to fly to do so. Killing him in 25 seconds would, if you take 17 dps and 5 healers, require ech of your DPSers to do 5177 DPS. I find that highly unlikely.

 

gaiylo

Confirmed. Same thing happened to me, but I'm not sure if it happens because of the zombie...
but it's a reasonable guess. Oh and as stated earlier, it's not taunt or similar stuff.

 

ShaidarLock

For those of you doing the 10 man, are you able to hit the Tenebron~dead before Shadron dies benchmark?

 

Kazanir

It's extremely hard on 10man unless you only use 2 tanks (instead of 3.) You'll typically have ~10-15% left to burn once Shadron has landed, and for that you'll need excellent positioning and good practice and luck with tsunamis.

'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. I told you. This is bigger than a war. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.

You can come with me. I can protect you.

 

Celani

\

I reviewed it, and you're right, it was not the DPS. Attempt 12 was the attempt in question.
Wow Web Stats

Tenebron took 53 seconds, or 8 seconds past the Shadron landing. Looks more likely that the eggs just bugged out, or Tenebron bugged and took too long to lay them. Note the damage to all three drakes, the deaths of Tenebron and Shadron, yet no whelps are ever present, unlike the rest of the attempts. Quite strange. Has anyone else ever run into this?