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Old 10/26/05, 5:44 PM   #26
Jol
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Druid
 
MalGanis
Originally Posted by Lord BEEF,October 26th, 2005 @ 1:43PM
But then again, EJ like most guilds has 8 rogues ready to go at any given point for a raid, a good handful of mages/warlocks, and 2-5 druids at most. While a druid may be able to do solid DPS with a feral or balance build, it's not exactly a unique role that is needing to be filled.
This is one thing that interests me. Are druids generally delegated to healers because they are limited by their class at performing other roles, or because a disproportionately low number of healers compared to DPS classes results in druids being used to fill that role? Perhaps it's both. However, if it's only the latter, then the solution is more healers, not pigeonholing druids. I think people might neglect the support abilities of the feral and (possibly) balance druid just because of a general lack of healers.

There's also inertia. As has been said before, druids aren't adequately geared for feral, and that is used as a reason to not let them go feral. But they're only not geared because they weren't able to go feral in the first place, or were chastised for rolling on feral gear. And besides gear, there's the mindset that druids are only good at healing, which was generally accepted before 1.8 but has been brought into question since the patch.

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Old 10/26/05, 5:49 PM   #27
♦ Praetorian
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Chupa,October 26th, 2005 @ 4:41PM
Do we know for sure exactly how much of a deaggro Cower is? If not, I'd like to do some experimenting at some point...
A cower is a feint. Literally -- zero difference from the rogue version. For a druid, it removes 600 damage worth of threat, effectively allowing you to do 60 DPS more than you otherwise could if you use it every time it's up.

It's ok, but it doesn't scale, and druids have no passive aggro-reduction (a la rogues, and many mages/warlocks), and no way of wiping aggro entirely (a la rogues and hunters). Aggro is the hard cap on the viability of druid DPS, especially for Horde.

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Old 10/26/05, 6:28 PM   #28
Chupa
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So it would likely require keeping a close eye on DM and making sure that I'm not outdamaging the warriors.
Of course, this is off in the distant future, when I CAN outdamage warriors :P

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Old 10/26/05, 6:31 PM   #29
♦ Praetorian
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Chupa,October 26th, 2005 @ 5:28PM
So it would likely require keeping a close eye on DM and making sure that I'm not outdamaging the warriors.
Of course, this is off in the distant future, when I CAN outdamage warriors :P
No, warriors have innate aggro reduction in any non-defensive stance. At any point above 300 DPS, you're generating more aggro than a warrior even cowering every 10 seconds.

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Old 10/26/05, 6:57 PM   #30
Chupa
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Mal'Ganis
:(

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Old 10/26/05, 7:17 PM   #31
hamlet_the_lesser
King Hippo
 
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Sargeras
I wish I could do 300 DPS :(. I am luckily to get 200 consistently.


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Old 10/26/05, 9:04 PM   #32
Graham
Soda Popinski
 
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Eh, so with that said then what we should be building for is 300DPS with constant cowering and having the equipment to have good mana pool to shift out and heal.

Also, I'm not sure about druids not having a aggro lowering effect in cat. There's a druid in a decent guild who was managing #4 on his MC clear DM (using cower CONSTANTLY) and shifting out to moonfire once whenever out of energy, and he wasn't complaining about stealing aggro.

Is it possible we've missed it?

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Old 10/26/05, 9:36 PM   #33
Lord BEEF
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I've also read a few threads on the wow druid forums where people have stated they pulled aggro on vael in cat form even though they did quite a bit less damage than the rogues.

I suppose it's possible that the rogues in question used vanish, but it seems like cat form doesn't have the -20% threat reduction.

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Old 10/26/05, 9:41 PM   #34
Brown Bread
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Vanish makes a huge difference in quick fast dps fights like vael though.

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Old 10/26/05, 9:43 PM   #35
♦ Praetorian
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Lord BEEF,October 26th, 2005 @ 8:36PM
I've also read a few threads on the wow druid forums where people have stated they pulled aggro on vael in cat form even though they did quite a bit less damage than the rogues.

I suppose it's possible that the rogues in question used vanish, but it seems like cat form doesn't have the -20% threat reduction.
Cat form definitely does not.

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Old 10/26/05, 9:58 PM   #36
Spartacus
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Mal'Ganis
I CAN"T READ

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Old 10/26/05, 10:29 PM   #37
Cardrian
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Mal'Ganis
tl;dr druids innervate me

8< 8< 8< 8< Cut Thread Here 8< 8< 8< 8<

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Old 10/26/05, 11:03 PM   #38
• Bad Luck
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Mal'Ganis
SHADOW WORD: PAIN
MIND BLAST
MIND BLAST
MIND BLAST
MIND BLAST
MIND BLAST
PRAYER OF HEALING
MIND BLAST
/t Bad Innervate me!

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Old 10/27/05, 3:34 AM   #39
Fjord
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Praetorian,October 26th, 2005 @ 11:49AM
I suspect we'll see a lot of respeccing back to heavier healing builds among many classes, including shamans who have gone more intoi Elemental talents lately, once A'Q comes out.
My new elemental spec has 30 points in restoration!


Hey, tonight one of our feral druids almost cracked the top 25 on DM! Actually Chupid did beat me on Flamegor in both damage and healing :huh:

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Old 10/27/05, 11:46 AM   #40
Moiven
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by Bad Luck,October 26th, 2005 @ 9:03PM
SHADOW WORD: PAIN
MIND BLAST
MIND BLAST
MIND BLAST
MIND BLAST
MIND BLAST
PRAYER OF HEALING
MIND BLAST
/t Bad Innervate me!
:D

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Old 10/27/05, 11:53 AM   #41
Chupa
Bald Bull
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Fjord,October 27th, 2005 @ 12:34AM
My new elemental spec has 30 points in restoration!


Hey, tonight one of our feral druids almost cracked the top 25 on DM! Actually Chupid did beat me on Flamegor in both damage and healing :huh:
A few cool points about last night:
A: Flamegor - I was in the DM spot above Fjord, having half my DPS gear on. Cardrian was in the spot above me. How? WANDING. :boggle:
B: Warlocks suck and hate me :(
C: In the first 5 or so pulls when I DIDN'T die every pull, I was in the top 15.

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Old 10/27/05, 11:57 AM   #42
Kaubel
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Mal'Ganis
This evening, I'm going to drop 3/3 improved rejuv and pick up 3/5 subtlety. Even with a 30g respec, I figure I'll save myself an average of 5g in repair costs on every raid.

Originally Posted by Lyta View Post
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.

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Old 10/27/05, 12:10 PM   #43
Graham
Soda Popinski
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Oh kaubel, and the next time the shades all beeline for you I will say I told you so.

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Old 10/27/05, 12:26 PM   #44
Scorpio!
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Priest
 
Originally Posted by Praetorian,October 26th, 2005 @ 7:38AM
For Horde, my main concern is that a druid that does a viable amount of DPS will have serious aggro problems.
Due to our lack of Blessing of Salvation, this issue is very very overt.

Last night a feral druid took aggro on onyxia, and had to tank her in bear form.


...



Through a swipe and a fear.

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Old 10/27/05, 12:32 PM   #45
Kaubel
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Graham,October 27th, 2005 @ 10:10AM
Oh kaubel, and the next time the shades all beeline for you I will say I told you so.
Overfriendly shades are the least of my concerns. It's the freaking lab that's running up my repair bill.

I never had imp rejuv before 1.8 anyway, so piss on that particular talent. I don't need it.

Originally Posted by Lyta View Post
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.

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Old 10/27/05, 12:36 PM   #46
Chupa
Bald Bull
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
:( I was a big fan of Imp Rejuv

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Old 10/27/05, 12:50 PM   #47
Kaubel
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Mal'Ganis
You should still have it too, despite not putting any points into it. That's another reason I'm dropping it. We have enough druids already who can do it, so me slapping them on people is a waste of mana.

Originally Posted by Lyta View Post
I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.

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Old 10/31/05, 5:45 PM   #48
decimus
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Kaubel,October 27th, 2005 @ 10:32AM
Originally Posted by Graham,October 27th, 2005 @ 10:10AM
Oh kaubel, and the next time the shades all beeline for you I will say I told you so.
Overfriendly shades are the least of my concerns. It's the freaking lab that's running up my repair bill.

I never had imp rejuv before 1.8 anyway, so piss on that particular talent. I don't need it.
Haha, I always wondered why people took improved rejuv. I was always of the opinion that somebody else should waste five (three points now) points on that useless talent. :P

Also, a big thanks to beef for giving that forum troll, Xl, a slap in the face on the druid forums.

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Old 10/31/05, 5:55 PM   #49
• Wodin
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Link please. :) Beef ownage is usually the best ownage.

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Old 10/31/05, 6:07 PM   #50
Lord BEEF
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http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...d&T=556576&P=17

That's the page where I started posting anyway.

Check out my friend's bitchin' Lord of the Rings Art

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