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Old 02/06/09, 2:39 AM   #91
Dehn
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
Originally Posted by Prinsesa View Post
My impression of the Divine Plea change is that the Shield spells will keep refreshing Plea's cooldown, such that the only consideration to its use would be if the buff has run out and if you can spare the GCD for it.
My guess is that it means that a protection paladin will have Divine Plea ticking permanently while fighting, either by some spells refreshing it as you think, or just an innate bonus.

This is really helpful for getting mana when being an OT.

It also looks together with the announce nerf or removal of Spirital Attunement that it is what we'll be compensated with.

I look forward to see it on PTR, and some smarter mathemagician than me determening the impact of our mana with this buff and any potential SA nerf.

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Old 02/06/09, 3:07 AM   #92
Threep
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
The Sha'tar (EU)
Divine Plea also affects JoL procs on other people doesn't it? Crippling JoL/SoL and self-healing while soloing can't be intended either.

If we are indeed intended to have Divine Plea up all the time, I hope it's changed to only apply the penalty to HL/FoL/Holy Shock.

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Old 02/06/09, 3:34 AM   #93
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by Prinsesa View Post
2. SHOR is getting a Silence, not an interrupt. This means you still can't use it to stop KT's Frostbolts - only HOJ and a Glyphed Exorcism will work on that. Furthermore, keep in mind that Silence is currently on DR for PvP.
Let's be serious here. These changes are anything but thought through. Being able to silence your primary target 50% of the time with your normal threat rotation on top of being able to use Avenger's Shield on a group of 3 mobs every 30 secs for another silence plus the ability to interrupt once every 15 secs with Exorcism and once every 30 seconds with the stun is anything short of ridiculous for PvE.

So what, being able to silence a mob 9 secs in a pull without using anything bigger than a 30 second cooldown is balanced? I don't think so. Think about it, this trivializes alot of trash for one and trash is not going to stay as easy as it is now. Ulduar should have harder trash than Naxx (atleast I hope so, if it doesn't we'll have a bigger problems anyway) so what do you think they are going to do with this? Make all mobs silence immune so only interrupts work? That would be silly given the new buffs to Paladins. But on the other hand they can't make them suspectible to silence either or a Paladin would be ridiculously good for that trash.

If you had a choice of a tank for mobs that Arcane Flurry for ridiculous amounts of damage (think Tempest Keep and HoL) but are suspectible to silences, which tank is going to dominate this? (This being just one example)

Seriously, who here can justify these new changes to me with a good conscience that these changes were needed, are balanced and are good for the overall game design? Because frankly, I don't see it.

EDIT: I read over this again and it looked like I was completely against Paladins getting proper interrupts - I am not. I just think the way they are doing it is over the top and overshooting by alot. Why aren't they modifying Glyph of Exorcism to remove the damage component and put it off the GCD like a real interrupt instead (with AS keeping the silence).

Last edited by Tyvi : 02/06/09 at 4:11 AM.


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Old 02/06/09, 3:37 AM   #94
Valerys
Don Flamenco
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
A SA nerf would still leave retribution out in the cold unless somehow compensated in their tree as well. Now I personally rarely if ever have mana problems on any fight currently, but I hear of other ret paladins who do, and who knows what kind of mana strain we might come under in Ulduar. Personally I hope they consider rebuffing Judgements of the Wise back to 20-25% if the SA nerf is severe enough.

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Old 02/06/09, 3:41 AM   #95
Adupala
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Quel'Thalas (EU)
PALADIN
• Blessing of Kings – this spell is now a base ability trainable by all paladins.
If i've understood this right, BoK is now an abillity trainable at the pala-trainer instead of an abillity from the talent tree? If so, i can remove the talent-points from the talent tree and bye the spell from the trainer instead?

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Old 02/06/09, 3:46 AM   #96
Désespoir
Banned
 
Undead Priest
 
Cho'gall (EU)
Originally Posted by Adupala View Post
If i've understood this right, BoK is now an abillity trainable at the pala-trainer instead of an abillity from the talent tree? If so, i can remove the talent-points from the talent tree and bye the spell from the trainer instead?
Blessing of Kings will no more be a talent, the 5 points related to BoK in Tier 1 of Protection Tree will be removed and probably replaced by something else.
BoK will be available for every paladin whatever the spec.

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Old 02/06/09, 4:08 AM   #97
Adupala
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Quel'Thalas (EU)
Originally Posted by Désespoir View Post
Blessing of Kings will no more be a talent, the 5 points related to BoK in Tier 1 of Protection Tree will be removed and probably replaced by something else.
BoK will be available for every paladin whatever the spec.
Great. Was hoping something like this would come up soon since i can't see any reason for BoK to be anything different from the other blessings.

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Old 02/06/09, 4:30 AM   #98
TSplodey
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
Dreadmaul
Originally Posted by Threep View Post
Divine Plea also affects JoL procs on other people doesn't it? Crippling JoL/SoL and self-healing while soloing can't be intended either.

If we are indeed intended to have Divine Plea up all the time, I hope it's changed to only apply the penalty to HL/FoL/Holy Shock.
Remeber Divine Plea is a buff so if those things are critical you can /cancelaura at any time.

EDIT: Plea becomes Please!

Last edited by TSplodey : 02/06/09 at 4:56 AM.

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Old 02/06/09, 4:37 AM   #99
Malleus
King Hippo
 
Human Paladin
 
Bronze Dragonflight (EU)
Originally Posted by Tzeni View Post
I'd imagine it'd be something like nerfing SA and then putting a deep-prot talent that would buff it back up to where it is now.
It doesn't even have to be deep. Making SA the 11-point Prot talent would suffice. Prots would take it as a matter of course, PVE Retris would go from 0/10/61 to 0/11/60, but Holy Paladins would have to sacrifice 8% crit to take it.

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Old 02/06/09, 5:11 AM   #100
Greybone
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Interesting:

- it won't be quite as easy to get deadly items via emblems of conquest as hateful items currently are via emblems of valor

- the new Archavon boss (a new boss located in another wing of the Vault of Archavon), will have slightly different drops than the current Archavon (he can drop Furious Gloves/Legs, or any possible random honor item in addition to tier 8 pve set items similar to Archavon's t7 pve set drops, but cannot drop the Furious Chest piece)
(From MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Arena Matchmaking System FAQ)

So new tokens it is, it seems!

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Old 02/06/09, 5:29 AM   #101
Stealthcat
Glass Joe
 
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Undead Rogue
 
Bloodscalp (EU)
Originally Posted by Greybone View Post
Interesting:



(From MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Arena Matchmaking System FAQ)

So new tokens it is, it seems!
That would be only new 25 man tokens and keep the 5-10 man ones? That is a good idea in my opinion as long as they add new loot to the 5-10 man badge vendors to.

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Old 02/06/09, 5:38 AM   #102
gia
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Genjuros (EU)
That would be only new 25 man tokens and keep the 5-10 man ones? That is a good idea in my opinion as long as they add new loot to the 5-10 man badge vendors to.
I don't think they're going to add new loot to the current badge vendors. This is what I assume their plan is:

T7/10 - Emblem of Heroism
T7/25 - Emblem of Valor
T8/10 - Emblem of Valor
T8/25 - Emblem of Conquest
T9/10 - Emblem of Conquest
T9/25 - Emblem of Elitism (or nothing at all)

Any new gear is probably going to come from the Conquest vendor exclusively.

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Old 02/06/09, 6:22 AM   #103
Stopokingme
Don Flamenco
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by gia View Post
I don't think they're going to add new loot to the current badge vendors. This is what I assume their plan is:

T7/10 - Emblem of Heroism
T7/25 - Emblem of Valor
T8/10 - Emblem of Valor
T8/25 - Emblem of Conquest
T9/10 - Emblem of Conquest
T9/25 - Emblem of Elitism (or nothing at all)

Any new gear is probably going to come from the Conquest vendor exclusively.
Unless they really didn't like tier tokens being purchasable with badges, they're sure to at least add t8/10 tokens to the Valor vendor.

Unless they plan on making tier set bonuses work like the arena set bonuses, and just be shared among the various tiers.

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Old 02/06/09, 6:45 AM   #104
LittleHamster
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Alonsus (EU)
Originally Posted by Stealthcat View Post
That would be only new 25 man tokens and keep the 5-10 man ones? That is a good idea in my opinion as long as they add new loot to the 5-10 man badge vendors to.
I doubt there will be new emblem gear for the 5man. I assume there'll for 10man ulduar however. Blizzard is trying actively to push everyone to see a pve progression, with the introduction of 10man content. (10man is very puggable). Giving out the higher item level loot on the old 5man is working against people trying new content. However, if there are new 5man introduced in 3.2, which are tuned to require better gear, then there's no reason why it shouldn't share the same emblem pool with the corresponding 10man.

Besides, I really hate how the old BoJ worked. It forces you to repeat old stale content like kara because of the need to farm badge gear that are best in slot.

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Old 02/06/09, 7:28 AM   #105
Ja7us
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by Greybone View Post
Interesting:



(From MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Arena Matchmaking System FAQ)

So new tokens it is, it seems!
Ugh. I REALLY hope they rework new-Archavon to either:

A) Not drop best-in-slot gear (Deadly/Valorous in the current incarnation)
or
B) Drop set tokens instead of actual pieces.

The current system, while interesting in theory, is in practice endlessly frustrating, both because the chance of even seeing your class' items drop is the same as it was back in BWL/MC (everyone remembers how much fun it was to try and get their set when the boss only had a 10% chance per drop to be your class) and also because for hybrids, getting the actual SPEC of the gear you want is nightmarishly unlikely.

Example: Rogues have 2 sets, total, that can drop from archavon, which means that each loot slot has a 5% chance to be from the set you're looking to add to (say, Deadly Gladiator) - and if you only need one piece, each loot slot has less than a 2% chance to get it for you. This is the best case.

The worst case is a class with three roles in both PvP and PvE - say, a shaman. Assuming that they want, for example, restoration gear for PvE and elemental gear for PvP (one spec for each) then their chance of seeing an item from a favorable set is only 3% per loot slot, their chance of seeing a piece of gear from the exact set they want (Deadly Gladiator, say) is around 1% per loot slot, and the chance per loot slot of seeing the one, particular item that they crave (Deadly Gloves of the proper spec, for example) is around .33% per loot slot - or, shamans have around a 1.2% chance of actually getting the item they want each time they kill Archavon, while a one-role class like rogues will have a 6.7% chance of getting a particular item that they want each time they kill Archavon.

TL;DR: Archavon dropping set items instead of set tokens penalizes hybrid classes, whose chance of getting an item for their class is equal to pure classes, but whose chance of getting an item for their spec is much, much lower. If the droprates were changed so that each individual item had the same droprate, then pure classes would be penalized because their drops are comparatively so rare. The only fair way for Archavon's gear to be distributed is through tokens for both PvP and PvE loot.

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