So...has EJ decided if you will be foregoing DKP for the AQ loot? Or do you plan to itemize the drops from the Temple (I assume you'll skip the ruins 20 man drops) and add to your pricelist?

Why would we forego DKP? What would we do, /random for the loot?

(And yes, we only use our JP system for 40-man events.)

Well I imagine he wants to know what we are doing with the token-system loot.

I think there are a lot of EJ members wondering the same thing, though :)

We're using our DKP system but working some weird stuff in to accomodate for classes that have to spend more points on gearing up or have seen fewer drops than other classes historically.

Er, well...isn't that what you do in ZG?

Remember, there's a 20 and a 40 here we are talking about. My assumption was:

20 : no dkp
40 : new items/prices added to the list.

Ok so yes, you answered my question. Sounds like you are adding prices to the list for the 40-man AQ stuff. Which is good.

but the 40 man shit is epic loots, there will be DKP for the token style epic shit.

How about we leave our proposals on how to handle them off the public forums for now? I think that's a cool idea.

EDIT: Jerk Points System breakdown is actually final and in effect.

Well, clearly, if both people not in our guild and people in our guild are curious as to how we're handling it, I think we need to start discussing it on the private forums. Then I can post here without nasty remarks. :angry:

Well Moz, really this isn't just a problem to our guild, many other guilds are facing this problem and wondering what to do about it. Although, I don't think this is the thread to brainstorm. I do think that guilds that have looked to us for MC and BWL prices will be turning towards us to see how we will work this, since the problem of some classes having a terrible average points compared to others isn't a problem confined to just EJ.

Also about all the AQ normal epic drop values, you might have noticed that our BWL values haven't surfaced on this forum until a week ago or so. For everything beyond MC, we have encouraged guilds to discuss pricing within themselves. What is fair to us, might not be so fair in th eyes of some of your guildmates, that is why we have many large threads internally about pricing on items that have come and are coming.

So while we aren't sure what we will be doing with the token system, any pubbie people are more than welcome to post thier thoughts on the matter.

I think there was some miscommunication with my initial post. What I was merely stating is that it's hard to offer a solution or ideas, when we ourselves haven't really decided on a clear-cut way to handle it and probably need more brainstorming on our end. Ideas from other guilds/individuals is more than welcome however.

It's ok Moz I still love you, you golden oldie.

Maybe for some guilds.

For us, we have 3+ separate groups that do 20-man raids at different times of the day, often including people who aren't in EJ to flesh out those runs. We leave it up to the leaders of those 20-man runs to handle how they are going to handle loot distribution on their runs.

It's not about the quality of the loot, it's about how it's obtained. We're only using points for Onyxia, MC, BWL, AQ40, and world bosses. Anything beyond that is far more hassle than it's worth.

I'd have to agree that with a guild as large as EJ (or even larger), trying to do DKP for the twenty man instances would be a real inconvenience.

If the individual leaders want to use DKP, they can be my guest, just so long as it doesn't tax my brain power. (Speaking as if I had a leadership posistion, which I unfortunately do not)

Plus there is the issue with invites. My ZG group doesn't have the same requirement that EJ as a whole does. I don't have to be fair and give everyone their chance to raid. I deny invites on the grounds that I don't like people enough (I'm a dick!)

And really the upgrade system makes it so that in the end someone who takes something from ZG will eventually pay the same amount of points as someone who didn't, so it doesn't matter.

It would be very nice if you explained how did you handle this situation.

In my guild we previously had a force set loot policy, even if person in question didn't consider this set piece an upgrade (99.99% of such cases is mages and locks). Now given the fact we had 7 mages and 3 locks and lock set dropping more often our locks get to a whooping negative DKP, while mages geared up in a highly desirable cross-caster loot (mana cords, azuresongs, snowblinds, etc)

Now, with a lot of bitching and whining about forcing a set and a great amount of officer discussion we have come to decision to cancel a forced set loot policy and compensate DKP to locks for set parts that was forced to them. Of course this is isnt best idea to create such precedent, but we didn't found any solution better than this.

So are you going to take away all their DKP again after the patch?

Tier 1 not getting changed stats wise and new lock set bonuses are about as bad as they was.

Yes, quite different situation indeed. My bad.

What.

+23 spell damage is quite nice for the 3-piece, and with the increased damage a full t2 warlock with the best possible trinkets/weapons gets about +700 damage now, with 20% aggro reduction.

Im talking about Tier 1 set (Felheart), not Tier 2 (Nemesis).

oh, my bad :)

Frankly, I think your warlocks need to sit down, shut up, and be happy they have so much epic loot - even if it IS all set pieces. Assuming you use the same system we do, they're spending exactly the same number of points as mages for their class sets - in the long run they're not behind points at all. The only reason they're "behind in points" is because they're getting more epics for their worthless asses with less work than the mages.

I have three JP epic gloves (hypnotic flame, felheart, and ebony flame) and three JP epic belts (felheart, mana igniting, and black bog). I got the "extra" pieces - which get swapped in/out whenever one is more helpful than the others - when I had JP priority. Yeah, a lot of mages had mana igniting cord before me. Big deal. We got a lot of warlock drops, and I got more epics faster than most of them. At this point, after quite a lot of raiding, I'm pretty close in JP to the average mage.

It doesn't really matter to me, though. I go to raids, enjoy them (usually), and speak up if something drops that I want. Once in a while I have priority and get loot. Given my raiding frequency I get as much loot as anyone else.

System not broken. Frustrating if you're short-sighted, yeah. But over the long term, one raid member gets just as much loot as any other for time spent. Tell your warlocks to suck it up and be damn glad they have more epics than an equal-time-spent mage.

Buncha whining pansies. I bet they don't even have the balls to lifetap.

Edit to put it a more palatable way, even though they ARE whining pansies:

If you use an upgrade system, think of set pieces as the down payment on a higher-point item for the same slot. I got Felheart before Mana Igniting; it didn't keep me from looting it, I had an epic while I waited, and eventually I got both.

Also, think about the real advantages of the set piece bonuses. Sure a Drain Life bonus isn't great for raiding, but it sure makes solo grinding mobs for drops/coin/whatever easier. The 8-piece felheart bonus is a HUGE efficiency upgrade which really does increase your raid DPS simply because you don't have to stop chain casting for that much longer. Think of it as a 15% DPS upgrade; until you have equipment that increases your spell DPS by 15% over what full felheart does (possible, but it takes a lot of work), you're better off wearing the felheart. Fewer big numbers, higher spot on DamageMeters.