I agree, choosing between a chance at Immortal, or the good loot. Especially with this acheivment in place: Heroic: He's Not Getting Any Older Defeat Yogg-Saron within 22 minutes on Heroic Difficulty.
Blizzard is expecting 20 minutes to be a FAST kill on Yogg-Saron, a boss we know will be abusing Mind Control mechanics, leading to all sorts of lolwhoops deaths.

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Current/future "0 Death" Achievements. (long)

Note that the meta-achievements are currently placeholders on the PTR - World of Warcraft - Wrath of the Lich King Achievements

Also, the Argent Tournament event has a title of Crusader for someone who "Earns exalted status with and the right to represent every Alliance race's faction in the Argent Tournament.".

Given that some of the achievements seems to be to kill some of the bosses in 20 seconds, I don't think the times are real on any of them.

Or two seconds.

"Stokin' the Furnace (Defeat Ignis the Furnace Master in 2 seconds on Normal Difficulty.)"

I don't think any of the numbers currently in are permanent. Only a couple of them seem remotely reasonable.

Yeah, missed a few of those other values, like 6,000 Rubble on Kologarn...
But, there doesn't appear to be a Dedicated Few part 2, so there's no need to worry about that hassle again.

I'm split on removing Immortal from the meta for Ulduar. If they had removed it from Naxx, everyone with Twilight Vanquisher would have a 310% speed proto-drake. They might be the best things this side of whatever, but 310% speed mounts are supposed to be rare and difficult to get. The meta achievement needs to include some barrier, just not an Immortal style achievement that's more annoying than difficult, and that doesn't bar you from hard modes week after week trying to complete it.

Will be an achievement in itself to convince most others to do 'Immortal' in Ulduar if all they get is 10 achievement points, especially when all bosses now got hard modes.
Would be disappointed if thats the solution they go for. Some people clearly don't like to do achievements (especially not if they are going to get less loot because of it), so making raid dependent achievements which require exactly this = bad idea. Just like it was for the undermanning achievements.

I'd rather see a 3-4 'very difficult' achievements in the meta, to replace Immortal.
Both some which requires lots of gearing up (timed kills should be good for that obviously), and some which require good planning and/or skill.
If they really want some Immortal type achievement, it could be for the last few bosses only, while doing hard mode at the same time or similar.

The challenge in doing Immortal is fine enough as such, and I can understand Blizz wanting it in.
However its separating those who want to do achievements and those who 'just' want to raid, more than it should, especially if 'Immortal' is taken out of the meta achievement.

The 310% mount wont even be that big of a carrot for people to do those achi's in Ulduar, as most raiders able to complete them all, are likely to have completed the current one already.

I would pray immortal not be part of the meta purely for the "normal mode drake raid" vs "heroic loot raid" reason that has been mentioned.

In fact I hope, though rather in vein i'd imagine, it gets removed from the Naxx meta too. It wouldn't impact the 10-man meta rareness as it completion rate according to Wowjutsu (i know it's not fully accurate) is 8.7% compared to 3-drakes at 2.9% and 6-min maly at 2.3%. It would also have very little impact on the 25-man rareity since 6-min maly has only a 1.4% completion.

What it's removal would do is mean the reward (the drakes) would be determined by the successful completion of hard fights such as 3drakes, 6-min maly, and not reliant on an achievement which has a degree of randomness in it's aquisition and thus can be unfair.

Strongly hinted above, now explicitly stated:

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Realm First Ulduar Clear Achievement

Thank merciful Christ.

I'm interested to see what the times will be for some of these achievements. Naxx fights tended to be fairly short, but bosses like Yogg-Saron have the potential to be very long, multi-phased encounters. I doubt they have enough testing to determine what a fast kill would be, though.

To get a badass title which even fewer people will have than the current Immortal? I'm guessing people will still want to do it.

Having Immortal runs is interesting and fun when everyone has a ping below 100.

My guild has been trying immortal for almost one month and we have been random deaths on it and majority is due to lag spike or disconnection in popular disconnection fights like thaddius / gluth and 4 horseman. Some may say replace them but saying is easier done then actually puting action into it when my guild consist almost more then 1/4 from malaysia nearly 3/4 of the guilds from singapore.

I really hope this sort of achievement could be scrap away from 3.1 especially to those who are playing at about 400 - 800 ping everyday in raids. Anyway the ping isn't the issue but the disconnection is the worst and the most frustrating among all.

I strongly feel that overall time achievements (such as Arachnaphobia) would be far more healthy and challenging (fair) than The Undying/Immortal.
ie. "Defeat Kel'Thuzad in Naxxramas on Heroic Difficulty within 2 hours of Anub'Rekhan's death."

It'd be a hell of a lot more fun playing recklessly against the clock rather than the frustration involved with trying to avoid disconnects, lag, mistakes, and all that sort of crap. Personally I think it would create a pretty social atmosphere, as opposed to 24 people on the edge of their seats, ready to lunge at someone who died to a void zone.

And give up better quality of loot for a week? I'd be truly disappointed with the hard modes if doing them didn't severely hamper your ability to do an immortal run. Likewise, I'm disappointed at an achievement that asks you to give up loot. I don't know why they don't change these achievements to make them personal. Say, kill every Ulduar boss in one raid lockout on hard mode, without dying.

The new Immortal/Undying achievements on PTR have the same title as the Naxx versions.

I think having a full timed run being the "crowning achievement" like immortal is now would be an excellent idea. This is something that RNG is not really gonna be able to screw with very much. If one person DCs it might add a few seconds to a boss kill, but it won't automatically ruin your achievement for the week. It also serves to limit the accessibility, much like immortal, by only being able to be attempted once per week. A really tightly timed speed run is actually fun to attempt instead of just being aggravating.

An 1:45 naxx run for example is fast enough that only very organized raids with good players who stay focused the whole time would be able to pull it off. It also serves to make trash an interesting part of the instance. It would no longer be something that half the raid afks through while the other half put forth minimal effort. Anything that makes trash less boring and mindless seems like a good idea to me. Trash that used to be boring and trivial isn't so boring and trivial when you don't get any time between pulls and have to kill each pack as efficiently as you can.

It would also alleviate the tension caused by failing immortal always resting on a single persons shoulders. Instead, like Jagiya said, it would bring a guild together in supporting one another while trying to get everything done as fast as they can. No longer would it feel like everybody in the raid is pissed at the person who DCed or pulled agro. Instead you would have people being resed asap to help keep the raid moving and tanks and healers working closely together to keep pulls rolling safely.

I doubt it. It will separate those who want achievement points and other flavor like titles even more from those who just want to clear the instance and get their loot.
Do we really need to end with achievement guilds and raid guilds as separate entities. Maybe thats exaggerating the problem a bit, but considering how much annoyance many people have had with just doing the undermmaning achievements in Naxx, this seems to further point in that direction.

Achievements should be out of the ordinary, and represent a challenge, but not go so directly against the other aspects of raiding, like doing Hard modes, or getting loot (which we probably cant deny matters much for many raiders).

Immortal achievement is a very bad achievement in general due to it not being hard but very random. Anything can ruin your run and ppl are forced into staring at boring bosses with focus. When you combine this with that you will recive less loot from the bosses makes it very uninteresting. If guilds choose to do immortal then they will probably fail some weeks and hence miss several drops for weeks, just for those 10p and a drake. In naxxramas its fine, there is no loss in loot from doing immortal and skipping other achievements.

The should change it to "within one raid lockout complete the following hard achievements". That way they can add some bosses with immortal-style but not have the entire instance focused on one thing. This would also be rewarding of loot as well.

There are other "silly" or "bad" achievements in the game, why do you object to this one specifically? It's been confirmed not to be involved in the meta-achievement - so just don't do it? Adding an additional achievement that isn't required for anything does not detract from the game in any way, does it?

I'm sure there are better ways that "crowning" achievements can be implemented, but would you really prfer it not to be implemented than implemented but remaining undone?

As long as Immortal/Undying isn't required for the protodrake, then I'll get a bunch of other like-minded people to go back and do it two tiers of gear later.

I still think randomness of RNG is still slightly tolerable and its still within range in avoiding it rather then a random disconnection.

As long as blizzard don't fix the issue of connection for players on the other side of the world, i think immortal/undying run is all about how lucky we are on the day itself.

This. As my strictly 10-man only guild won't see Sarth3D down before 3.1, Glory of the Raider is completely out of reach, so the achievements that aren't fair to people don't feel (to us) like they're a barrier to any larger reward (specifically a meta achievement). For example, we were planning on coming back and doing Dedicated Few on an off-night post-3.1 for people who enjoy achievements. (If you armory me, you'll see that I have it, but that's because last week we had several people who couldn't make it on our Naxx night and magically had exactly 8 people online.) If there's no reason to get the Ulduar Immortal/Undying achievements before 3.2, there's really no reason to stress out about the existence of the achievement.