◊ Praetorian

I'm not sure I've tested this with 100% certainty, but I had assumed the opposite. Are you sure?

 

Raylen

I really doubt that crit heals generate the same amount of agro that regular heals do. I'd like to run some tests though and find out.

 

Graham

I'm pretty damned sure. I haven't tested it in a while, and I'm not entirely confident in the sort of half-assed testing I was doing back then, but when I had my 24/0/27 build I was running with around 17-20% spell crit (depending on gear) and I don't think I drew aggro that wasn't obviously based on something else ever.

Additionally, why woulc crit heals generate more aggro? The game only checks how much you actually heal.

Oh wait are you thinking I said "same amount of aggro as a non-crit heal for less"? Because I said "same amount of aggro as a non-crit heal of the exact same amount."

If I HT Rank4 and crit heal for 1300, that's the same aggro as if I use HT rank 6 and heal for 1300.

 

◊ Praetorian

How in the world is that conclusive proof :blink:

 

Graham

Yearg.

That wasn't the testing, that was ancillary. Also see edit above. I think you guys misunderstood me.

 

◊ Praetorian

Shouldn't be hard to test.

Have Player A start out missing 2k hp or so.
Player B is a shaman/priest.

Player A hits a mob. Player B heals him once with Flash Heal/LHW. Mob will turn to Player B. Player A hits the mob with a low-damage weapon for small incremental damage, until it turns back to A. Record the amount of damage this required.

Repeat the experiment until that first heal crits. It should heal for 1800ish instead of 1200ish. Test to see how much damage is required to get the mob to turn back to Player A. Is it 50% more than was required on a noncrit? Or is it more like double what was previously required? The answer should be obvious very quickly.

 

◊ Praetorian

Because on the damage side of the equation, crits DO generate more aggro. It's likely that heals behave the same way.

One crit shadowbolt for 2k generates roughly 3k worth of aggro, whereas two noncrit shadowbolts for 2k generate 2k worth.

So, my suggestion is that critting an 800pt heal for 1.2k generates roughly 50% more aggro than a regular noncrit 1200pt heal of a higher rank, assuming no overhealing at all.

 

Graham

I think that was what I did. See, the problem is that it was (a) long ago, (b) late at night, and (c ) oh man was I toasty.

Let's test it definitively before I get into the scotch tonight and check. I've been running with this assumption (anecdotally supported) for quite a while.

 

Runnybabbit

Player B can't be a druid? Is that an oversight, or is druid healing functionally different from that of priests and shamans? I know paladins generate less threat from their heals so they can't tank by chain-healing themselves, but I haven't heard anything definitive on druids, just a few unsubstantiated rumors.

 

hamlet

wouldnt it just be easier to calculate using a priest or druid though? flash/lhw wave would be easier to figure than anything a druid has. Also maybe their heals are different I dunno.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...mai_hime37.gif

 

◊ Praetorian

Sorry sometimes being in EJ makes me forget that druids can have mana bars and not just energy bars. My bad.

 

hamlet

I think you hurt a druids feelings. Does a heal being a Hot or AOE affect aggro production at all?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...mai_hime37.gif

 

◊ Praetorian

The nature of the healing shouldn't matter -- just the amount healed.

 

Graham

This is correct, but not quite in the way people would necessarily assume. While not a direct exception to the rule, Regrowth generates aggro based upon the total amount that is going to be healed (initial heal + HoT) on the front end.

And yea I was sober when I tested that.

 

Chupa

Nah, at least he acknowledged our existence. This time.

 

Shin

It's a shame druids aren't really people.. Similar to warlocks.

 

• bartolimu

Gurg won't let me take a Dragon's Blood Cape. :(

 

Runnybabbit

How about a "true" HoT like Rejuv or Renew? I have always assumed that those generated threat in a pulsed fashion with each tick of the heal. Not true?

 

Chupa

Ever hotted a tank before a body pull? If the aggro pulsed then you would gain aggro for an instant befor the tank hit it, but that doesn't happen :)

 

Graham

I've had this go both ways.

HoT a tank pre pull, tank hits and HSes and no seeming aggro for me.

HoT a tank pre pull, tank bloodrages, gets prox aggro, HoT ticks, mob changes targets to me.

As such, my current (UNTESTED) belief is that normal HoTs (renew and rejuv) generate aggro as a per-tic heal at the time of tic.

 

Runnybabbit

What do you mean by "that doesn't happen," exactly? Meaning you don't gain aggro at all, or you do get it and it takes more than an instant for the tank to take it from you?

Fun prank to pull on your fellow healers in a situation where a tank is going to charge into a group of weak mobs to gather them up for an AoE burn: if you know someone is going to HoT the tank before he goes in, try to drop MotW on the tank right before the HoT lands. Even if the tank is at full health, the effect of MotW increasing his stamina will cause the first pulse or two of the HoT to heal him and generate threat for the unfortunate healer. Hopefully nobody notices, and if the tank just tries to body pull the mobs at first instead of dropping Demo Shout or something, the mobs he doesn't hit right away are going to head for the guy who put the HoT on him.

Ah, high comedy.

EDIT (and double entendre' alert): I've had HoT experiences going both ways, just like Graham.

 

norg

I think he means that if aggro was generated per tick and the tank body pulled the mob, if the HoT ticked before he could land any sort of attack the mob would turn to the healer. But that doesn't happen.

I haven't tested it myself in any way, but that's my understanding of Chupa's comment.

 

◊ Praetorian

But the tank normally is at 100% when he body-pulls, particular after the first couple of ticks of the HoT as he was running in (and not in combat, thus no aggro)....

And by the time the mob hits him to cause damage that could be healed to generate aggro, the tank has probably already hit the mob.

Try having a tank body pull an aggro mob while missing a large chunk of hp, and put a HoT on him right before he aggros it. The mob will go after the healer.

 

Chupa

Arg, I was fixing to post what Gurg said. Yeah, my analysis was flawed due to the previously-discussed fact that overhealing generates no aggro.


Waitasecond now I'm really confused. I know I pulled aggro once on Chromaggus by casting a Regrowth on Moz about a second late as he was running in. He would have been at 100%, so that seems bizarre. Maybe it generates almost no aggro but still more than is caused by just proximity?

 

◊ Praetorian

He probably Bloodraged and you healed that damage.