The Basics

We run a points based "zero-sum" system, which we use a database and webpage to track. 99% of the loot tables from Raid Bosses and Raid trash are public, so we've collectively gone through the items that can drop and assigned point values to them. Let's use two examples here:

Cenarion Boots are valued at 100 points.
http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=Cenarion%20Boots
Cenarion Bracers valued at 50 points.
http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=Cenarion%20Bracers

These values are based upon how much of an upgrade the item is from the normal (blue) alternatives, with a borderline upgrade valued at 50, slight at 75, good at 100, excellent at 125, and insane at 150.

I'll run through two examples, the examples should explain themselves as they go.

40 of us zone into a fresh MC instance.

Magmadar dies and drops drood boots. These are valued at 100 points. There are 3 druids in the raid, one of them has been on a few raids w/o looting and has 25 Points(druid A), one has zero (first raid) (druid B ), and one has -97.5 (this is his second raid and he won the 100 point shoulders last time) (druid C). The druid with 25 points (A) can take or pass, then the druid at zero points (B ) can take or pass, then the druid at -97.5 (C ) can take or pass. If all pass, the item is disenchanted if BoP or offered to druids in the guild not on the raid if BoE.

Say the druid with 25 (A) points exercises his priority and takes the item. He drops by -100 points and everyone in the raid recieves 2.5 points (100 points divided by 40 people on the raid). This point gain includes the person getting the item (druid A), so really -72.5 JP is his new total.

Twenty minutes later, a trash mob dies and drops the 50-point druid bracers. As of now the priority is B (2.5), A (-72.5), and C (-95). Priority proceeds based on point totals again. If B takes the bracers then the point totals for those three druids are now -93.75 for C, -71.25 for A, and -46.25 for B. Should another druid item drop with only those three in attendance, the priority would go B, A, then C.

The points themselves are totally irrelevant. The thing that matters is tracking priority based on relative point totals. For instance, before I went to MC, every 60 druid in my guild had gone to MC and won loot but me, so the first time I went I got druid loot, as my 0 point total had priority. But, that dropped me to the middle of the priority list as many of them had been accumulating points all along and I had not while only winning one item (ranking them above me), and several of them had won multiple items (ranking them below me), making my new total the middle negative.

Now, a very important thing to realize about this system is that it is zero-sum. That means that the total of all points in the system, both positive and negative, is always zero. If you don't get economics that may seem useless to you, but what it means is that the points retain the same value over time, as there is no possibility for inflation. Since the number of points going into the system equals the number of points leaving the system, the points retain the same relative value over time.

I STRONGLY encourage anyone who is unsure about the realities of using a point system, especially a zero-sum system, to read over http://padwen.tripod.com/ .
The math speaks for itself. You can argue with opinions, but you can't argue with probabilities.



Questions, Answers, and Advanced Jerkitude.



Q: But what about point hoarding meanies?! They ruin the system integrity by building up positive values to cherry pick prime loots?

A: We force looting, when necessary, in the following way:
There are three potential phases to the distribution of a BoP epic item that drops from a raid mob:

1) Go down the list of eligible characters for whom the item is primarily intended, in order of class priority and then Total JP {total current, meaning earned minus spent, is how this term is always used} within class, and ask for interest in the item. People are free to pass if the item does not suit their goals at the time.*

If no one claims the item, there are two possibilities now:

2a) The item simply is not an upgrade for any of the primarily intended class(es): If the item has a realistic secondary class (ranged weapons for warriors/rogues, melee weapons for hunters, caster cloth for druids, caster leather for shamans, etc.) then people of that class have the option, in order of Total JP, to purchase the item for 1/2 of its normal JP cost, rounded down to the nearest multiple of 25. This is not mandatory. If there are no takers, we disenchant the item.**

2b) The item actually is a non-trivial upgrade*** for one or more people of the primarily intended class(es), but everyone passed. The item is now officially "at risk" of being disenchanted. We will have a second pass, in order of Total JP, through the members of the primary class, who now have a second chance to decide whether to take the item rather than have it forcibly assigned.

3) If the item remains unclaimed following (2b), then the raid leader will assign it to a member of the raid for whom it is an upgrade. As a general rule, this should be the person with the highest total JP, though exceptions may be made (where, for example, the item is only a slight upgrade for the top pointholder, but a massive upgrade for the second-in-line). That person will loot the item and pay the JP cost for it. We will not disenchant an item that is a viable upgrade for someone of the class for whom it was primarily intended.

* Caveat: If you are doing this more than rarely, perhaps your goals at the time are unrealistic and you should reevaluate them. (Saving for Tier 2 pieces when BWL comes out is not a realistic goal; saving solely for rare Ragnaros drops is not a realistic goal.)

** There is one other option -- if the item is class-specific and all members of the class have superior items (e.g., Gianstalker's Helm when all hunters present have Dragonstalker's), one of those present may take the item for free rather than disenchanting it. [See below for further explanation.]

*** Moving laterally between epic raid items generally is not considered an upgrade. Also, something that would necessitate a complete respec generally is not considered an upgrade (e.g., a pure +fire damage item to a pure frost mage) though there may be exceptions (e.g., Perdition's Blade for a swordfag with a Thrash Blade).



Q: OK, but now we're in BWL or AQ40 and people don't have enough points to loot in a manner relative to thier contrabution since we started on MC. Should I really have to spend 1K JP on my Tier1 set and then another 1K JP on my Tier2 set?!

A: We have the following system worked out for upgrading items as better items enter the game:
When you upgrade from one JP-purchased epic raid item to another item in the same slot, you pay the difference in cost between the two. However, people only get a chance at this discounted upgrade price if no one else needs the item outright.
So, for example, imagine 2 Legplates of Wrath drop from Ragnaros. There are three warriors present:

WarriorA has Legplates of Wrath already.
WarriorB has Legplates of Might.
WarriorC has blue leggings.

WarriorC pays 150JP and takes the first Legplates of Wrath, whether he likes it or not (though I suspect he won't exactly be complaining.)

WarriorB will take the second Legplates of Wrath. They're an upgrade and a great item. However, going from Might to Wrath is not an upgrade worthy of 150 JP, but that's what he would have to pay. Under our current system, B ends up with Wrath legs and has spent 250 JP total on his leg slot (Might + Wrath). C gets the exact same legs but has only spent 150 JP. That is unfair, and what we are trying to prevent.

Ultimately, the point of the JP system is that two people with the same JP Spent should have roughly the same quality of gear. Under our original system, people who have invested heavily in tier 1 sets and later have to upgrade to t2, are going to be seriously, seriously disadvantaged as compared to those who were lucky enough to get t2 pieces back when they were dropping in MC. We want to encourage people to take t1 pieces now, and we don't want to punish people who do so.

Additionally,
If a lower-priced item is not an upgrade to anyone present, before we disenchant it, anyone who has the superior piece already can take it for free if they want to.

Example: A couple of times now we have disenchanted Giantstalker Helms from Garr because the hunters present already had the tier 2 from Onyxia. Obviously Giantstalker is worse than Dragonstalker so there's no reason they'd buy it, so we disenchant it.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just let one of the hunters have it for free? Some of the hunters have lots of tier 1 pieces but also have the tier 2 helm because we've seen so many of them. The set bonuses are pretty good, and I can see a hunter wanting to wear the t1 helm in certain situations and then discarding it permanently once we hit BWL and get more of the t2 set.

Basically, disenchanting loot sucks. We don't need Nexus Crystals that bad. No, a druid with Stormrage Legs isn't going to wear Salamander pants all the time. But it's better to let him have a pair to throw on when he needs some extra FR than to disenchant it. Any guild in a position to be concerned about upgrading is also going to be in a position to put together 40 people who need (almost) nothing from MC or Onyxia, run both once a week, and generate a bajillion Nexus Crystals if they need them.



Q: How are people who come into the raiding scene late ever supposed to catch up to anything near a competitive placing?

A: That could be a problem if point gain continues linearly forever. Here's what we do:
We have Earned JP caps in place. It's important to be clear here that this refers to the amount you have EARNED in total, not the amount you happen to have unspent.

Once you hit 1500JP earned, running MC (barring Ragnaros) doesn't earn you JP any more. Once you hit 2000 earned, Ragnaros won't earn you more JP. Once you hit 2500JP, running BWL (barring Nefarion) doesn't earn you any more. Once you hit 3000, even Nefarion won't earn you any more. In this way the progression of JP gains becomes uneven as members stop needing loot from the zone. In other words, you can't have 8/8 Tier2 and still earn JP by running MC on cruise control.

As for that JP that you aren't earning when you are there anyway (because everyone has that one thing they want to get) you simply do not count for the division. If 4 people attend a Luci-Domo clear who are above 1500JP earned, and the rest of the raid is below 1500JP earned, then they divide up the loot JP from the boss drops by 36, not by 40. This also helps late bloomers catch up some while maintaining the integrity of the system.



Q: How do you handle craftables?

A: We use the following system for epic BoE Craftables:
MC craftables (a system that is yet to be repeated in BWL or AQ) require materials that drop only within MC. We work out what the JP value of the craftables should be, then divide that out amongst the MC-only materials needed (including Core Leather when we started, but no longer as we have tons of it) and award that JP to persons as the component materials drop. So if a Lava Core is worth 5JP, everyone in the raid when we loot one gets 0.125JP and into the guild bank it goes. When someone needs a MC craftable item they pay the item cost, get the mats from the guild bank, and get it made.



Q: What about completely-conditional resist gear?

A: Now THAT is a good question:
Good players should be spending thier JP on resist gear needed for progression at every opprotunity. A tank with 315FR and 315NR and 250SR buffed is incredibly more valuable than one with resists in the low 100's. Yet that tank is giving up priority by spending JP on the resist gear. Should they be punished over the long term? Of course not.

Your Earned JP caps per instance or final boss are increased by the amount of resist gear you have purchased. A player with 400JP worth of FR and NR from drops and craftables actually has caps of 1900 Earned for MC, 2400 Earned for Ragnaros, 2900 Earned for BWL, and 3400 Earned for Nefarion. Your resists investment is already making you a highl-desirable raid member, and now you can regain that investment over the long term.



Q: What item values does EJ use?

A: We're not telling.
Look, for any system to be viable over the long term it has to have the buy-in of it's members. Your guild has to feel like you really own your own distribution system, not that it was imposed artifically just because those hyper-cool cats in EJ use it and your guild leader thinks they are the k-rad'est. If you really want to see what we have used at different times then go by the old discussion thread at http://forums.elitistjerks.com/index.php?showtopic=781 . Keep in mind though, the various points charts or quotes in there have not been checked and we have almost certianly changed them many times as dynamics and the overall loot universe has changed. Take the time and do the arguing yourself, it will work out much better for you if you do.