Best Raid DPS from overlapping buffs - Page 3

Boevis · 04/16/09, 9:24 AM

I hadn't noticed this before, but Disc Priests can easily have 100% uptime of the 3% DR on the whole raid: Renewed Hope. That takes some pressure off of having to bring a Prot Pally.

• sordee · 04/21/09, 5:46 PM

Might be a stupid question:
But in a 25 man, which warrior is the best option for taking Imp Demo Shout in raid?
Prot Warrior, Arms or Fury?

Boevis · 04/21/09, 10:14 PM

That's a tough question, probably an arms warrior because he's less likely to ever spec into improved cleave. Aside from that, they're basically the same at that point of the tree.

LittleHamster · 04/22/09, 6:02 AM

Originally Posted by sordee

Might be a stupid question:
But in a 25 man, which warrior is the best option for taking Imp Demo Shout in raid?
Prot Warrior, Arms or Fury?

It's a dps loss for dps warriors to take up imp demo shout. On the other hand, it's quite easy for a prot warrior to pick up imp demo shout in a survival/progression build. I got these two from a tankspot post.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

These are ofc not threat oriented builds. If you must use a dps warrior for it, fury struggles more with rage at the moment and will benefit from unbridled wrath more. Arms will be the better choice.

Shha · 04/26/09, 12:10 AM

Wrong about the warrior choice.

a) Unless you have TWO dps warriors, its better if one of other classes get imp demo. Imp commanding is helpful
b) If you have two, make fury use it. While the argument about unbridled wrath is correct, the dps lost by arms by wasting around 1 gcd per 15 sec (counting the occasional resist and a safety measure of 20 sec reapplying to account for it), is far more then dps lost by fury for the rage cost + lower ubridled (fury has enough free gcds).

Poromu · 05/04/09, 8:59 AM

Just a note, with the change to FF making it a 5 minute PvE duration it's really a very miniscule almost immeasureable ammount of dps lost from applying it as Balance. However when you have a feral and a spriest you would be starting your dps rotation so it's really just a call of fight mechanics (one mob or several) that would judge it out, optimal raid setup the feral does it and spriest covers misery.

BoomBeef · 05/11/09, 3:24 PM

As far as a unique Health buff, as Arms spec one can get Commanding Presence and do the more enhanced Commanding shout. It is incorrect to say it is only done by Fury warriors or Fury spec.

And as Shha said, DPS loss is significant for Arms spec warriors to Demo shout simply because of the GCD issues. If you had to pick, have Fury or Prot spec debuff with Demo shout and have Arms buff the Commanding shout.

I would like to know if Ferals loose any DPS% to Demo roar or not. Interesting to note Locks loose 6% DPS on their version.

kalbear · 05/11/09, 4:50 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was a thread in the tanking forums a while back confirming that Feral Faerie Fire can be applied to a mob regardless of the presence of Misery or IFF debuffs, assuming the detriment you're referring to is a Bear tank being unable to access FFF's threat.

That's correct; Feral Faerie fire and IFF are independent. The only 'loss' would be if a feral cat put up FFF instead of a feral bear.

I would like to know if Ferals loose any DPS% to Demo roar or not. Interesting to note Locks loose 6% DPS on their version.

For a feral, it takes 3 GCDs per 30 seconds to reapply this assuming they're in cat. One to change to bear, one to demo roar, one to change back to cat. It's a pretty significant hit to their DPS; I haven't figured it out precisely, but you're going to lose at least 12% melee attacks if you're doing that as well as potentially some energy depending on your furor.

Boevis · 05/11/09, 6:38 PM

Since Catform can't demo roar (yet!) it's a very significant loss shifting to bear to keep it up

Our previous statements about Fury being the ones to keep it up was based on pre 3.1 when arms wasn't optimal dps, now with them being so close head to head, Arms likely wins out because of providing Trauma (+150 dps for feral druids if we don't have to mangle)

Kysimir · 05/13/09, 3:13 PM

As Arms for my guild, I lose about ~300-700 DPS going from Normal Rotation to Sunder Rotations. The reason for the disparity is some fights are very sunder-unfriendly. XT Deconstructor comes to mind. I sunder the boss, get the bomb and have to run, sunder could fall off. Or heart is exposed, boss becomes immune to taunt, sunders DO fall off. Hence I must restart from 0. DPS races where I *HAVE* to get 5 stacks within 5 or 6s, I tend to lose more DPS as well. Whereas Hodir is closer to 300 DPS loss.

My rotation was posted in a jpg format here:

In-Depth Arms DPS Discussion

Thunderclap is an insignificant DPS loss. I usually use it in lieu of Slam.
I never demo shout... so I'm unsure as to the loss there. :/

I can get you wws reports later, if you'd like. It may take me a while, as to get the same fight with roughly the same buffs, with me sundering and with a prot warrior sundering (we don't always have a prot warrior with us).

Naivedo · 05/23/09, 6:04 PM

Debuff - Spell Damage Taken: Best if used by an Unholy Death Knight when fighting more than a single mob because they can apply debuff to more than two targets after two global cool downs with Icy Touch (and/or Plague Strike) and Pestilence unlike Balance Druids. Pestilence can hit every mob within a 10 (15 glyphed) yard radius with a 100% chance to apply debuff. No damage lost.
* Balance Druids have a 100% chance to apply debuff to targets of their two direct damage abilities, Starfire and Wrath. No damage lost.
* Warlock - Curse of Elements - Self damage loss of 6%

Shorter Verison

Debuff - Spell Damage Taken: Unholy Death Knight - Multiple Targets. Talent increasing disease damage taken and improves critical strike chance with weapons and spells by {1/2/3}% at all times.
* Balance Druids - Single target only. Talent also increases spell damage by {1/2/3}%.
* Warlock - Curse of Elements - Self damage loss of 6%

Njald · 05/26/09, 11:06 PM

Static Armor buffs should be included on front page in the OP.
While it's currently only two classes that have miniscule DPS gains from it it is still nice to know the values and the opportunity costs for each. Also, the main article includes Armor Debuffs so mitigation is clearly a part of this thread subject.

Boevis · 05/29/09, 2:53 PM

Armor is being mentioned: Armor %: Holy Priest or Restoration Shaman

Glory · 05/29/09, 11:35 PM

I think he means Devotion Aura (Paladin), Stoneskin Totem (Shaman).

Prot Paladin can strengthen his aura by 50% for 3 Talent Points which are also increasing incoming heal from all sources by 6% to all Units affected by his Devotion Aura. Taken by Prot Paladins its a direct Mitigation Talent. For Multi Tanking Bossfights like Freya or Thorim its a bonus for bringing 1 Prot Paladin.
Shaman can enhance his totem by 20% for 2 Talent Points, also decreasing Grounding Totem cd by 2 Sec. No Selfbonus.

François · 06/03/09, 4:28 AM

Static armor buffs (devotion aura and stoneskin totem) aren't overlapping, as far as I know. It would be confusing if they were added to the front page in the OP.