This thread is getting incredibly off-topic and fast.
But FYI, it took almost 4 months to kill Nefarian, M'uru was killed in 4 days.
Certainly, the Algalon lock out is a cockblock. But it's an interesting one at that. It means you have to make your attempts good, and not just throw yourself at it over and over again and pray for the RNG gods.
In regards to Mimiron, it's only the first and third Barrage that lined up to the Shock Blast. The Shock Blast is resistable (nature), so it is possible for your tank to live through it with appropriate tanking cooldowns. Or, you could just use Guardian Spirit on it. GS first and third shock blasts, since the second and fourth don't line up, and kill him before the fifth.
Originally Posted by arison
Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.
Personally the Agalorn mechanic doesn't bother me. We've had discussions about artificial progress chokepoints before, and I think the consensus is really that they're not such a bad thing.. definitely preferable to having guilds play 24/7 for a kill and then having nothing to do for the next six months.
The problem with this restriction on Algalon is that it offers only 1 extra hour of gameplay for those guilds. I think most people were expecting countless wipes on him from the way it was "advertised".
This thread is getting incredibly off-topic and fast.
But FYI, it took almost 4 months to kill Nefarian, M'uru was killed in 4 days.
Certainly, the Algalon lock out is a cockblock. But it's an interesting one at that. It means you have to make your attempts good, and not just throw yourself at it over and over again and pray for the RNG gods.
Well, I don't really feel you can compare nef&m'uru kill time, both for the difference in guild organization, the design of the encounter (soft resets for nef etc), the number of kills over time and the amount of wipes it took.
I think blizz said the average on M'uru was 500wipes.
When you consider that, M'uru is, was and will be the hardest encounter to grace the game (blizz stated they would never make a boss that took 500wipes on average to kill).
Originally Posted by burghy
The problem with this restriction on Algalon is that it offers only 1 extra hour of gameplay for those guilds. I think most people were expecting countless wipes on him from the way it was "advertised".
Yes, but now we truly will have an equal playing field (if such ever exists). As long as we know when a guild starts on algalon we will know who killed him fastest, and you can't nolife your way through it (like KJ and ulduar was done)
A very persistant guild could gear up an extra raidforce (of probably alts), and do several Algalon runs per week, to speed up the learning process and/or allow for more experimentation. I'd be rather surprised if there aren't already guilds planning at least 2 Algalon runs per week this way. Could even do quite a lot of runs depending on how the attunement/keying mechanism works. (ie does everyone need the key or just one raidmember).
...Razorscale's fireballs (the Frostfire Bolt modeled ones, not the Devouring Flames) in her Air Phase - she was habitually targeting the same player 3-4 times in a row (in one case, six). ... Are her Fireball targets completely random or is there some trick anyone has found to keeping that from hitting the same person over and over?
Her Fireball targets seem to be completely random. Mostly it's a good reason to have a FR aura or FR totem, and for players to have over 22k hp buffed.
After a little experimenting it seems clear that her Devouring Flame is aggro based. I believe it follows an Onyxia-style targeting method - when Razorscale is flying, she targets her Devouring Flame at whoever is atop her threat list, and being hit with it reduces your threat on Razorscale. You can prove this to yourself by having a healing paladin put on Righteous Fury and dodge all the Devouring Flames during the 1st phase. Typically after the 1st ground phase the flame will be aimed at one of your top dps.
A very persistant guild could gear up an extra raidforce (of probably alts), and do several Algalon runs per week, to speed up the learning process and/or allow for more experimentation. I'd be rather surprised if there aren't already guilds planning at least 2 Algalon runs per week this way. Could even do quite a lot of runs depending on how the attunement/keying mechanism works. (ie does everyone need the key or just one raidmember).
And, of course, it's yet another reason that parallel progression is superior. Each 25man raid can have at least 2 10man raids, effectively tripling their time with this boss.
In the end it was more trouble than it was worth and we went back to all healers/casters being spread out in the room. People will eventually get used to responding to the beam and if you can have someone focused on calling out the beam targets name it should become trivial.
It's also worthwhile explaining exactly how the beam animation works to your raiders -- i.e., it starts with one eyebeam on either side of the target, and then they converge and start following. We had a lot of people who didn't really get this at first, and after we stopped and explained it our beam survival rate went up dramatically.
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.
I am really sorry if this was said before in this thread, but reading every single post to check for 1 thing requires time I don't have.
Yesterday we reached Vezax, and prepared the tank setup mentioned in every single guide/description. One tank for the boss and one tank for the add (every guide says that he spawns at 35% you offtank him in normal mode, and have to kill him in hard mode). We got Vezax below 35% about 4 times, with me looking around frantically every time to pick up the add immediately. Point is, the add never spawned. Is that what it should be, or did he bug on us?
The Saronite Animus only spawns in hard mode, which is not shattering any of the 8 Saronite vapor crystals that spawn during the fight, normal mode Vezax is just the same fight from 100-0% with no adds.
Quick, trivial question: XT-002 and Flame Leviathan are "engineerable", and of course Freya's Gift drops that Alchemist's Cache. Is Razorscale skinnable? We skipped her last week, so just curious before we do her this week.
Wasn't when we killed her last week, and I sure tried. Guess having an iron hide makes her too tough.
Please could we have more confirmation whether or not it is possible to loot the [Archivum Data Disc] from killing the Runemaster rather than Steelbreaker last? I'm just curious as to whether this is intended or not.
Her Fireball targets seem to be completely random. Mostly it's a good reason to have a FR aura or FR totem, and for players to have over 22k hp buffed.
After a little experimenting it seems clear that her Devouring Flame is aggro based. I believe it follows an Onyxia-style targeting method - when Razorscale is flying, she targets her Devouring Flame at whoever is atop her threat list, and being hit with it reduces your threat on Razorscale. You can prove this to yourself by having a healing paladin put on Righteous Fury and dodge all the Devouring Flames during the 1st phase. Typically after the 1st ground phase the flame will be aimed at one of your top dps.
This is untrue regarding Devouring Flame -- I've actually found it to be location based. I was able to (in 25s) have her target me with multiple Devouring Flames in a row, on every attempt, by making sure I was in the ring in the middle, with the rest of the raid spread out on either side handling adds. I'm not sure if it's based on who's closest to the center, or who's closest to where she's currently flying, but positioning almost certainly was the cause.
Admittedly, my anecdotal evidence is entirely too small a sample to prove anything; it falls well within the realm of "Onyxia deep breaths more." But it at least disproves that it's aggro based, since as a prot warrior, I had almost no threat on her during the air phase, and was consistently getting targeted. When you tested it, was the paladin with RF standing in the middle?
Please could we have more confirmation whether or not it is possible to loot the [Archivum Data Disc] from killing the Runemaster rather than Steelbreaker last? I'm just curious as to whether this is intended or not.
It's been said that it is lootable so yes it is.
Some help for anyone finding Kologarn a pain; line all your ranged up. What we did is all stand on the line that is on the ground just inside the room (ie: the first really long line). Having ranged AoE on the left healers in the middle and hunters on the right all spread out along this line. This way every beam that happened all people had to do was run straight forward then to the right and theres no way that anyone will hit anyone else. Made the fight much less chaotic for some people.
I just wanted to post here with a couple of bugs (25 man) I haven't seen mentioned here.
Last week on Auriaya, after mastering the pull (splitting the pull with distract from rogues works, and brings the cats in 2 at a time, which we found to make things much easier), we noticed that the Feral Defender never dropped below 7 stacks of his buff, regardless of how many times we killed him. We wiped to this a number of times before just ignoring the defender completely and turning the fight into a tank and spank, with offtanks standing outside of the raid clump so they would get pounced more frequently. Haven't done the fight this week yet to see if the bug reproduces itself.
Also, Kologarn this week seemed to be randomly puking on the raid with multiple tanks on him. Not sure what was causing this, but it happened more than once.
Please could we have more confirmation whether or not it is possible to loot the [Archivum Data Disc] from killing the Runemaster rather than Steelbreaker last? I'm just curious as to whether this is intended or not.
We have not seen the data disc in the two kills we have had so far, our order was Steelbreaker > Vykrul > Runemaster.
My 10-man guild took a few shots at XT-002 hard mode last night and we discovered something a little unusual (at least it seemed so to me): the timing of the fight just doesn't make sense. It took us about 2 minute to get him down to 75%, wait on his phase-change animation, and blow up his heart. From there, we have approximately 4 minutes left on the enrage timer and he's healed himself to a full 12 million hitpoints. 240 seconds for 7 dpsers to burn through 12 million HP is about 7140 DPS per person. And that's including dealing with the sparks flying around. Even tightening up the first phase leaves us with pretty ridiculous DPS requirements. Am I missing something or doing the math incorrectly? Or perhaps it's just really that demanding?
PS - Does it make sense to have two threads for Ulduar, one for 10s and one for 25s? I know the mods don't like extra thread clutter, but I think it would be extremely beneficial for those looking for information, not to mention it would remove the confusion that ensues when someone forgets to mention what version of a fight they are talking about.
This is untrue regarding Devouring Flame -- I've actually found it to be location based. I was able to (in 25s) have her target me with multiple Devouring Flames in a row, on every attempt, by making sure I was in the ring in the middle, with the rest of the raid spread out on either side handling adds. I'm not sure if it's based on who's closest to the center, or who's closest to where she's currently flying, but positioning almost certainly was the cause.
Admittedly, my anecdotal evidence is entirely too small a sample to prove anything; it falls well within the realm of "Onyxia deep breaths more." But it at least disproves that it's aggro based, since as a prot warrior, I had almost no threat on her during the air phase, and was consistently getting targeted. When you tested it, was the paladin with RF standing in the middle?
Adding more anecdotal evidence, our Sentinel tank received about 5-6 breaths in a row, while standing far east on the far side of the mole machines (don't ask me why he was out there). That's about as far from the circle as you can get. We also AE tank all the adds inside the circle on the east side and haven't noticed too much fire there.
Unless it has to do with location in relation to the drake overhead, I don't think it can have anything to do with location. Were you guys shooting the chains prior to the fourth spawning? Perhaps shooting the first chain roots him in the center and causes more breaths in the center? We leave the guns alone until the third repairs, and then have someone run by and click them all ending at the fourth just as it repairs.
edit: We also noticed on Flame Leviathan last night, a few of the demolishers were unable to snag barrels. One of them started this way and another had this issue during the fight. The passenger would shoot a barrel, it would wiggle a bit, but the chain would just remain extended. Is this just bad luck with a bug, or is there something we were missing?
PS - Does it make sense to have two threads for Ulduar, one for 10s and one for 25s? I know the mods don't like extra thread clutter, but I think it would be extremely beneficial for those looking for information, not to mention it would remove the confusion that ensues when someone forgets to mention what version of a fight they are talking about.
I'd say no--quite a few of the things I've seen come up here have applied equally to both 10 and 25 man settings. (For example, Kologarn having a hit box big enough that you can be considered "not in melee range" for his breath thing, even when you're actually standing there hitting him. Also, this might or might not answer Zandig's question, if his tanks were just close enough to melee him.) It seems more convenient to get these sorts of questions answered in one place and risk the very occasional confusion of 10 vs 25 modes.
Unless it has to do with location in relation to the drake overhead, I don't think it can have anything to do with location.
I actually think (more anecdotal evidence!) that it does indeed have to do with the location of the drake overhead. We tried having a soaker last night, and it seemed to work well. For the first flying phase they stayed in the middle of the circle, and for the second they moved far to the east to stay close to Razorscale. This generally kept the fire out of the raid!
Razorscale begins the fight by targeting the person closest to the center of the circle. After the first ground phase she targets the person farthest to the NE (i.e., far left from the perspective of entering the area). Once harpooned, she returns to targeting the person closest to the center. Thus, you can control the fire targeting by choosing when to launch the first harpoon.
Razorscale begins the fight by targeting the person closest to the center of the circle. After the first ground phase she targets the person farthest to the NE (i.e., far left from the perspective of entering the area). Once harpooned, she returns to targeting the person closest to the center. Thus, you can control the fire targeting by choosing when to launch the first harpoon.
Just confirming this. I got 12-15 of them on me in a row testing it out.
"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."
- Clark's Law
04/22/09, 4:00 AM
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